Scotland v. Ireland

[Golf Man]

Oldschool- maybe look at your own top 2 inches - we were 16 points down - line out malfunctions related to all 3 and poor defence getting way too narrow - but it's murrays fault? Spoofing beyond belief

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[munster#1]

Incredibly frustrating performance. The first half was rubbish apart from the scrum. The front five offered very little and the back row each had a couple of good moments and then didnt do a whole lot else. Our attack was dreadful, the first and second receivers were way too wide of the ruck and our passing was really poor. We seemed very reluctant to move the ball wide despite looking dangerous there and getting no joy up the middle. We seemed afraid to put the ball out in front of the receiever, it was brutal. The lineout obviously terrible too.

Don't know why it took until half time to change the tactics. Much improved performance from everyone in the pack and that gave the backs more time and front foot ball. Fair play to them for sorting the lineout (to an extent), didnt think that would be possible. Once we got the lead we seemed to forget what had got us there, lost all composure and threw the ball around a bit too much and either lost it or got isolated. The one out runners with good support pushing through tackles and rucking over immediately was working so well but we got too cocky I think.

Thought Murray and Jackson were both quite poor. Both of them had good moments but Murray's passing was poor and Jackson was lateral too often. Robbie made some good darts but to me that was almost in spite of the ball he got rather than because of it. Strong second half from Ringrose but thought he was poor in the first.

Thought John Ryan was the only sub to really do well. VDF was alright but we needed him to win turnovers in the last ten.

We didn't turn up in the first half and made far too many mistakes, but Poite still cost us big time. Scotland were well offside all day long (can't believe we didn't hear Best in his ear about it) and they were rolling in the way of the ball too. Couldn't believe it when he pinged Jackson for it given that he'd let Scotland away with being so blatant about it. He was shocking.

Good summery.

I would add that we were very rudderless which is probably why we didn't change it up in the first half.

As you say, we didn't see Best in the refs ear, we also didn't see him getting the players together for a chat. Ireland have enough leadership and experienced players that it shouldn't have taken Joe to change things at half time.

Imo once it became obvious that stander was being double teamed, we should have used him a bit as a dummy runner to create gaps.

Our other leaders had a mixrd bag.
Jamie led by example, he'd have been MOM if Ireland had won, Murray didn't, he kicked possession away twice in the last ten minutes.

Another Murray dig????

Ever wonder if box kicks are part of the Irish game plan?

Not questioning leaders leading by example, but they failed to identify what was and wasn't working, and if they did they failed to communicate this to the team.

[munster#1]

Incredibly frustrating performance. The first half was rubbish apart from the scrum. The front five offered very little and the back row each had a couple of good moments and then didnt do a whole lot else. Our attack was dreadful, the first and second receivers were way too wide of the ruck and our passing was really poor. We seemed very reluctant to move the ball wide despite looking dangerous there and getting no joy up the middle. We seemed afraid to put the ball out in front of the receiever, it was brutal. The lineout obviously terrible too.

Don't know why it took until half time to change the tactics. Much improved performance from everyone in the pack and that gave the backs more time and front foot ball. Fair play to them for sorting the lineout (to an extent), didnt think that would be possible. Once we got the lead we seemed to forget what had got us there, lost all composure and threw the ball around a bit too much and either lost it or got isolated. The one out runners with good support pushing through tackles and rucking over immediately was working so well but we got too cocky I think.

Thought Murray and Jackson were both quite poor. Both of them had good moments but Murray's passing was poor and Jackson was lateral too often. Robbie made some good darts but to me that was almost in spite of the ball he got rather than because of it. Strong second half from Ringrose but thought he was poor in the first.

Thought John Ryan was the only sub to really do well. VDF was alright but we needed him to win turnovers in the last ten.

We didn't turn up in the first half and made far too many mistakes, but Poite still cost us big time. Scotland were well offside all day long (can't believe we didn't hear Best in his ear about it) and they were rolling in the way of the ball too. Couldn't believe it when he pinged Jackson for it given that he'd let Scotland away with being so blatant about it. He was shocking.

Good summery.

I would add that we were very rudderless which is probably why we didn't change it up in the first half.

As you say, we didn't see Best in the refs ear, we also didn't see him getting the players together for a chat. Ireland have enough leadership and experienced players that it shouldn't have taken Joe to change things at half time.

Imo once it became obvious that stander was being double teamed, we should have used him a bit as a dummy runner to create gaps.

M1, you can't handle the truth that Murray was awful, he offered very little today - His decline has been shockingly quick.
Glasgow roughed him up and he folded today.

Another Murray dig???

Time to go to bed old man.

[Golf Man]

Kearney had a good game, justified his selection. Zebo surprisingly lacked the pace to take his intercept but I thought he was also one of our better players. Earls was poor, at fault for the second try. Ringrose was pretty poor too. I thought Jackson was our best player in the second half, big drop off from Sexton though. Henderson was really poor, even with the try. One of Best's worst Ireland performances in years, Jack McGrath was a passenger all game. Furlong carried well I thought,

Have to say that I thought the second try was a complete system failure Scotland got overlap way way too easily - Jackson ring rose and earls were all poor and if as I assume hens haw is leading the defence then he is at fault as well - simply very poor alround

Hard to blame the back line too much for that one, that game was lost in the pack, the back five forwards were way too slow getting to the breakdown, and when they got there the didn't protect the ball.

The line-out was very poor, we got scrappy ball when we did manage to retain it, which made it impossible to set up anything.
Maul attack and defense we also very poor.

The team looked like 15 individuals, not a team. With stander being tackled out of the game we failed to switch how we attacked.

Massive credit to Scotland, they did their homework, stopped Ireland from playing, and deserved the win.

Pretty poor analysis there M1.
Murray got plenty of ball, what happened next.
The forwards could have won the game if their scrum half had used the ball properly including giving them a decent pop pass instead of high into their faces.
You and Murray won't like the video replay.
Murray's passing has always being dodgy.
Scotland got into his head. The top two inches.

Incredibly frustrating performance. The first half was rubbish apart from the scrum. The front five offered very little and the back row each had a couple of good moments and then didnt do a whole lot else. Our attack was dreadful, the first and second receivers were way too wide of the ruck and our passing was really poor. We seemed very reluctant to move the ball wide despite looking dangerous there and getting no joy up the middle. We seemed afraid to put the ball out in front of the receiever, it was brutal. The lineout obviously terrible too.

Don't know why it took until half time to change the tactics. Much improved performance from everyone in the pack and that gave the backs more time and front foot ball. Fair play to them for sorting the lineout (to an extent), didnt think that would be possible. Once we got the lead we seemed to forget what had got us there, lost all composure and threw the ball around a bit too much and either lost it or got isolated. The one out runners with good support pushing through tackles and rucking over immediately was working so well but we got too cocky I think.

Thought Murray and Jackson were both quite poor. Both of them had good moments but Murray's passing was poor and Jackson was lateral too often. Robbie made some good darts but to me that was almost in spite of the ball he got rather than because of it. Strong second half from Ringrose but thought he was poor in the first.

Thought John Ryan was the only sub to really do well. VDF was alright but we needed him to win turnovers in the last ten.

We didn't turn up in the first half and made far too many mistakes, but Poite still cost us big time. Scotland were well offside all day long (can't believe we didn't hear Best in his ear about it) and they were rolling in the way of the ball too. Couldn't believe it when he pinged Jackson for it given that he'd let Scotland away with being so blatant about it. He was shocking.

Good summery.

I would add that we were very rudderless which is probably why we didn't change it up in the first half.

As you say, we didn't see Best in the refs ear, we also didn't see him getting the players together for a chat. Ireland have enough leadership and experienced players that it shouldn't have taken Joe to change things at half time.

Imo once it became obvious that stander was being double teamed, we should have used him a bit as a dummy runner to create gaps.

M1, you can't handle the truth that Murray was awful, he offered very little today - His decline has been shockingly quick.
Glasgow roughed him up and he folded today.

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[munster#1]

Kearney had a good game, justified his selection. Zebo surprisingly lacked the pace to take his intercept but I thought he was also one of our better players. Earls was poor, at fault for the second try. Ringrose was pretty poor too. I thought Jackson was our best player in the second half, big drop off from Sexton though. Henderson was really poor, even with the try. One of Best's worst Ireland performances in years, Jack McGrath was a passenger all game. Furlong carried well I thought,

Agreed on Kearney.
I was also surprised that Zebo got beaten so obviously for pace.

I disagree about earls. He was out of position for the second try as he was covering for ringrose.
Little he could have done to stop it. Scotland had us stretched too much, and our defensive system failed.

Both rob and Hogan agreed that earls was Ireland's best back.

[Oldschool]

M1, you can't handle the truth that Murray was awful, he offered very little today - His decline has been shockingly quick.
Glasgow roughed him up and he folded today.

Jesus man stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

What would be embarrassing would be if I thought Heaslip had a poor game and Murray had an almostmom game.
I presume from your remark that's your assessment of their performances, laughable not just embarrassing.

[wixfjord]

M1, you can't handle the truth that Murray was awful, he offered very little today - His decline has been shockingly quick.
Glasgow roughed him up and he folded today.

Jesus man stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

What would be embarrassing would be if I thought Heaslip had a poor game and Murray had an almostmom game.
I presume from your remark that's your assessment of their performances, laughable not just embarrassing.

Hah!
What a brilliant example you've just given of what's called a 'straw man' argument!

[munster#1]

M1, you can't handle the truth that Murray was awful, he offered very little today - His decline has been shockingly quick.
Glasgow roughed him up and he folded today.

Jesus man stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

What would be embarrassing would be if I thought Heaslip had a poor game and Murray had an almostmom game.
I presume from your remark that's your assessment of their performances, laughable not just embarrassing.

Ahhhh, what are you like?

[Oldschoolsocks]

Kearney had a good game, justified his selection. Zebo surprisingly lacked the pace to take his intercept but I thought he was also one of our better players. Earls was poor, at fault for the second try. Ringrose was pretty poor too. I thought Jackson was our best player in the second half, big drop off from Sexton though. Henderson was really poor, even with the try. One of Best's worst Ireland performances in years, Jack McGrath was a passenger all game. Furlong carried well I thought,

Agreed on Kearney.
I was also surprised that Zebo got beaten so obviously for pace.

I disagree about earls. He was out of position for the second try as he was covering for ringrose.
Little he could have done to stop it. Scotland had us stretched too much, and our defensive system failed.

Both rob and Hogan agreed that earls was Ireland's best back.

Maybe I just see the errors as they happen, earls had some good moments, but that sliced clearance kick giving Scotland an attacking line out which they scored their first try off was a bit of a game changing moment tbh. Also gave a momentum changing penalty for in at the side. So for me he had a bit of a mixed bag tbh.

[enby]

the lineout both on our own ball and on opposition's needs some serious work. Really was demoralising to see how poor it was today.

Jacko, apart from a 10 minute spell, was very poor staying too deep and never turning their back three. He wasn't helped by an unusually ponderous Murray who was as poor as he was outstanding in the AIs.

[Oldschool]

[qoute="wixford"]

Jesus man stop, you're embarrassing yourself.
[/qoute]
What would be embarrassing would be if I thought Heaslip had a poor game and Murray had an almost mom game.
I presume from your remark that's your assessment of their performances, laughable not just embarrassing.

Hah!
What a brilliant example you've just given of what's called a 'straw man' argument!

May be, but I'm still waiting to hear your own, substantive, assessment of Heaslip's and Murray's respective performances.

[Raydollard]

Heaslip was poor and Murray was worse.
We could not beat a chyte Scottish team.

[dropkick]

Murray certainly did a lot of aimless kicking but guess what, thats what he is instructed to do. I don't think Ireland won a single catch from a box kick but kept doing it. The definition of madness. Marmion was left on the bench then and he is the kind of player you'd want in that situation. Once again the attacking game from Ireland comes up short. Its galling to see Scotland move swiftly across the pitch while Ireland have to resort to bashing it up the middle. People mention Irelands play evolving but theres no evidence of that.


The big danger going into the match was the lineout. That was the biggest area of concern and so it proved correct. If POM was playing Irelands lineout would have worked smoothly not to mention bring a bit more fire to the pack. They looked very casual out there in the first half. The backrow in general looked unbalanced.


I thought the officials were very kind to Scotland. How many balls are you allowed to blatantly kill 2m from your line without getting a yellow card? Not to mention all the offsides, not rolling away, going off their feet. Seemed to be different rules for the home and away team but thats normal in rugby (except when the Kiwis are involved) and a big problem. I see England getting the same kind of dodge decisions against France and in fairness the Australians said we got a few of those in november.


I thought Zebo was poor and Kearney just doesn't have the gas these days. Unfortunately Tommy Bowe continued his poor Ulster form. I'm a big fan of Bowe but he was only selected on past reputation.


Henshaw had a great game. He is a great athlete and made some big carries in the second half. In the first half they were playing far too deep.


In the last 6 games in this competition Ireland have only beaten Italy and Scotland and they were home matches. The loses are starting to add up and I think its a result of the predictable way Ireland play.

[CiaranIrl]

Heaslip's attempted offload and Kearney's forward pass into touch were contenders for "most frustrating moment of the match", but the winner has to be the third Scottish try, with Furlong especially at fault. I haven't seen something so ludicrous from Ireland since ROG's insane last game.

Neither Heaslip nor Kearney were especially poor overall though. They definitely had some excellent moments.

[wixfjord]

[qoute="wixford"]

Jesus man stop, you're embarrassing yourself.
[/qoute]
What would be embarrassing would be if I thought Heaslip had a poor game and Murray had an almost mom game.
I presume from your remark that's your assessment of their performances, laughable not just embarrassing.

Hah!
What a brilliant example you've just given of what's called a 'straw man' argument!

May be, but I'm still waiting to hear your own, substantive, assessment of Heaslip's and Murray's respective performances.

Why are you asking me? I personally never said anything about Heaslip. For some reason you brought him up with me, by using a strange straw man to try to put words in my mouth, and weirdly, presuming that Murray & Heaslip's performance are correlated

In any case, I thought Heaslip was good overall. 60 metres, 10 tackles tells its own story. Carried a lot in first half, led well and really stood up, along with Stander in the third quarter. The fact you could hear him above any other player on the ref's mic is always a good sign.

Murray was mixed. Some poor and some very good box kicking. Definitely not the levels he set in the AI. In the lead up to the Hendo try he was very good, and brought a lot of structure, but overall we needed more from him. Poor rucking didn't help in first half.

You're trying to project your dislike of Murray onto his performance. But stuff like 'His decline has been shockingly quick.
Glasgow roughed him up and he folded today.' is, as I say, objectively laughable & embarrassing.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Murray certainly did a lot of aimless kicking but guess what, thats what he is instructed to do.

Hey dropkick, normally I wouldn't just pick one line out of what was in general pretty good post - but this is silly.

Murray is not instructed by anyone to kick the ball directly to one of the most potent running fullbacks in world rugby, especially with minutes left and Ireland chasing a score.

I don't agree Murray was #thereason for us losing that match, we lost that match in the line out, but a more composed Murray not aimlessly kicking the ball away and indeed a more decisive Murray at the base with flatter passes would have been the winning of it.


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[theghost]

Bad decision making from coaching staff and team cost us the game. We never adapted to Scotland's rush defense and their targeting of our ball carriers. Collectively Scotland looked like a team with a well thought out plan and worryingly we didn't, we missed Sexton and POM would have been a great option in the lineout (yes injured) as they dominated an area where we usually are quite assured. Though our centre partnership offered very little in the way of attack and we defended too narrow allowing scotland to attack down the wings at will. Disappointing game a total feeling of deflation to start the 6 nations with.

[Oldschool]

M1, you can't handle the truth that Murray was awful, he offered very little today - His decline has been shockingly quick.
Glasgow roughed him up and he folded today.

Jesus man stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

Above is your post addressing my post.
A bit of revisionism going on by you further up.
Straw man comes to mind.

[Oldschool]

Oldschool- maybe look at your own top 2 inches - we were 16 points down - line out malfunctions related to all 3 and poor defence getting way too narrow - but it's murrays fault? Spoofing beyond belief

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A simple analysis of his passing throughout the game is not good watching.
Just look at his pass to Jackson for his try, almost into his face.
This is a serious work on for him.

[enby]

Oddly enough, I thought we missed Cronin in the last quarter, especially after we went ahead when his dynamism would have been important