TerenureJim wrote:Cat amongst the pigeons but anyone else think it's a little wrong that a player of POM's ability will likely loose out to Stander? Putting it out for debate, maybe it needs its own thread.
I don't think there's anything much wrong with it at all. It's just playing by the regulations.
In my opinion, refusing to pick nationalised players who are clearly performing better than their competitors would be like refusing to kick the ball anywhere on the pitch and trying to run and pass your way out of danger all the time: intentionally handicapping yourself so you could claim the moral high ground. If/when the regulations change to a five year period – which I would have no problem with – than we should change ... but not before.
In any case, Stander is playing so much better than O'Mahony that it's not even a contest. Bar the occasional lineout steal, O'Mahony's form is really not very impressive at all. He's coming back from a whole year out of the game and two serious surgeries, and he's still looking to find something like his best form. Progress is probably slower than he would have hoped, but you can't honestly say that's wholly unexpected. Coming back from ACL surgery is a tricky business, and he had a third shoulder surgery over that period to contend with as well.
Obviously he's a really important figure in Munster and a good provincial captain. People in Munster [both on the pitch and in the stands] seem to really identify with him, which certainly has a value, but one that is more or less intangible. I think there's an observable tendency to make a big deal of sort of ordinary things that he does and attribute importance to them because it's him doing them. Peter O'Mahony celebrates CJ Stander try brilliantly! etc.
But to be frank, there seems to be some sort of mass delusion about a supposed
'barnstorming return to form' [to quote Gerry Thornley]. He's not playing that well at the moment and isn't all that effective – except in the lineout, as mentioned above. I can't recall lineouts ever being this important when Locky McLaughlin was king of the skies!
Every time I watch Munster I try to keep an eye on O'Mahony to see if I'm missing something that he's doing and I see more or less the same thing: ordinary carrying, good bits-and-pieces of handling, excellent line-out play, few mistakes, okay tackling and a decent but not noticeably impressive workrate ... what's the big deal?
I went and did a short exercise using the Scrum.com statistical headings for the games he has started for Munster this season and compared them to Jack Conan's, who has split time between Nos 6 & 8 this season. Just a simple exercise, compiling totals and finding an average/game
[in bold]; the average is an adjusted average, based on one decimal place and rounded to the nearest integer. For example, O'Mahony has averaged 1.9 passes/game, so that is rounded to 2, likewise the average of 6.2 metres run is rounded to 6.
O'Mahony
11 starts/1 try
K/P/R: 1/23/67
[0/2/6]
MR: 69
[6]
CB: 0
[0]
DB: 3
[0]
Offloads: 1
[0]
Turnovers Conceded: 8
[1]
Tackles Made: 70
[6]
Tackles Missed: 4
[0]
Lineouts Stolen: 6
[1]
Pro12/OPTA Stats [O'Mahony]:
http://www.pro12rugby.com/player/?PlayGuid=PO196534
Conan
8 starts/5 tries
K/P/R: 4/39/101
[1/5/13]
MR: 439
[55]
CB: 14
[2]
DB: 35
[4]
Offloads: 11
[1]
Turnovers Conceded: 6
[1]
Tackles Made: 98
[12]
Tackles Missed: 3
[0]
Lineouts Stolen: 2
[0]
Pro12/OPTA Stats [Conan]:
http://www.pro12rugby.com/player/?PlayGuid=JC661063
Conan beats him in 10 of 11 statistical categories, both in totals and averages - more kicks, passes, carries, more tackles made/fewer missed, fewer turnovers conceded – and whips him in an absolute rake of them: 14 clean breaks to none, 35 defenders beaten to 3, 11 offloads to 1, 5 tries to 1, 439 metres run to 69m ... the only thing that O'Mahony trumps him in is lineouts stolen, 6 to 2.
Basically, any observation of these two players show that one guy is in great form, and the other is in middling form. To be honest, I could have used Jack O'Donoghue or Dan Leavy or Sean Reidy or Josh van der Flier as comparisons. They are all proving a lot more productive for their respective provincial teams than O'Mahony is this season, and in practically all aspects of the game [again, bar the lineout, where POM is head and shoulders above any of them]. However, Conan is the real stand-out and I'd say he's making his presence felt in training. Personally speaking, I think we're deep in the backrow, and O'Mahony's absence isn't going to cause many issues.