Italy v Ireland 2017

[Xanthippe]

God there's a cheery post to make us all feel better;)

Sorry I just get a bit pee'd when someone tells me there's a mistake in stats that I clearly explained weren't complete - my inner nerd can be quite strong and defensive at times!!!

[munster#1]

As it's Italy, Team I want to see:
Healy, Best, Ryan,
Toner, Ryan
POM, SOB, CJ
Murray, Jackson,
Earls, Henshaw, Ringrose, Trimble, Zebo.

Only change I expect would be the introduction of D.Ryan in place of Henderson.

[Laighin Break]

You know Joe is too loyal to pick more Munster than Leinster.

[matt]

As it's Italy, Team I want to see:
Healy, Best, Ryan,
Toner, Ryan
POM, SOB, CJ
Murray, Jackson,
Earls, Henshaw, Ringrose, Trimble, Zebo.

Only change I expect would be the introduction of D.Ryan in place of Henderson.

Apart from your Provincial bias munster#1 why would you want to drop Heaslip & Kearney who were certainly not as poor as others in Murrayfield and have 7 Munster players on team (Assuming Furlong not fit agree with all except POM & Earls).

[simonokeeffe]

Gerrys prediction is Ryan for Henderson only change to starting team with Henderson dropping to bench and Trimble coming in for Bowe

[domhnallj]

Gerrys prediction is Ryan for Henderson only change to starting team with Henderson dropping to bench and Trimble coming in for Bowe

Is Bowe out of the squad altogether? I can't be arsed cranking up the IT to find out myself.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Surprised we wouldn't start Trimble given our weakness out wide in defence last weekend.

[the spoofer]

The Munsters are really dying to get Heaslip out of the team

[Laighin Break]

The Munsters are really dying to get Heaslip out of the team

Imagine the party down there when Heaslip hangs up the boots.

[Logorrhea]

The Munsters are really dying to get Heaslip out of the team

Imagine the party down there when Heaslip hangs up the boots.

And Jack Conan is selected for Ireland at 8.

[offshorerules]

Online fora are the only reality where it happens thankfully. The number of world class coaches including some from Munster that have been proven wrong for selecting him really is staggering.

[Golf Man]

As it's Italy, Team I want to see:
Healy, Best, Ryan,
Toner, Ryan
POM, SOB, CJ
Murray, Jackson,
Earls, Henshaw, Ringrose, Trimble, Zebo.

Only change I expect would be the introduction of D.Ryan in place of Henderson.

Apart from your Provincial bias munster#1 why would you want to drop Heaslip & Kearney who were certainly not as poor as others in Murrayfield and have 7 Munster players on team (Assuming Furlong not fit agree with all except POM & Earls).

The provincial bias goes both ways

I don't think there is a need to drop Heaslip - but I don't think its clear what our best backrow is, and given the options we have there, no player should be assured of his place. I do think there is a very good case for POM - who is alongside him - you can argue all day about that

Kearney has been done to death (he was either the best or the worst back last week) - but he is not a form selection, he is not a selection for the future, he is limited in attack relative to other options and while positionally very good, has a long standing and uncorrected issue with tackling/defensive decisions as the last man. I actually can't make the case for Kearney anymore - experience & leadership - we have plenty of experience in the back 3, and there was no sign of leadership last week from him. You are saying you wouldn't pick Earls - I'm assuming that is because you would pick Kearney - I'm genuinely interested - why?

[Golf Man]

Online fora are the only reality where it happens thankfully. The number of world class coaches including some from Munster that have been proven wrong for selecting him really is staggering.

I'd ignore a lot of what is said about Heaslip - there has always been players that draw the ire of the rabid one eyed fans in all provinces and he is one of them

That said we now have, for the first time in probably 8 years, a viable alternative, and huge strength in depth in the backrow. Genuine question - do you think Heaslip is/should be untouchable in the Irish team?

[simonokeeffe]

Gerrys prediction is Ryan for Henderson only change to starting team with Henderson dropping to bench and Trimble coming in for Bowe

Is Bowe out of the squad altogether? I can't be arsed cranking up the IT to find out myself.

Aye, Dillane too

[munster#1]

As it's Italy, Team I want to see:
Healy, Best, Ryan,
Toner, Ryan
POM, SOB, CJ
Murray, Jackson,
Earls, Henshaw, Ringrose, Trimble, Zebo.

Only change I expect would be the introduction of D.Ryan in place of Henderson.

Apart from your Provincial bias munster#1 why would you want to drop Heaslip & Kearney who were certainly not as poor as others in Murrayfield and have 7 Munster players on team (Assuming Furlong not fit agree with all except POM & Earls).

Claiming that my opinion is based on a provincial bias is a childish and small minded comment.
If I was looking at the Irish team with a provincial bias, then surely I would want all Munster lads returned to their province to play for Munster tomorrow?

Like many have said in media, online and on the street, Ireland need to sort out the lineout, that is why I want to see POM added.
I would move stander to 8 as he is in incredible form, and despite playing at blindside, he still made the most carries for Ireland last week. Playing him at 8 would allow him to play to his strength.

On kearney, this is purely based on his defensive frailties, which most will agree is an issue with him.
Adding trimble to the wing and moving Zebo to the position he has excelled in this season, would strengthen the Irish team imo.

Ryan and healy for Furlong and McGrath is purely for rotation. I wouldn't have an issue with whichever combination of front row starts, as all are as strong as each other imo, but given the nature of the 6 nations, I would like to see all options being given meaningful game time.

[Oldschool]

As it's Italy, Team I want to see:
Healy, Best, Ryan,
Toner, Ryan
POM, SOB, CJ
Murray, Jackson,
Earls, Henshaw, Ringrose, Trimble, Zebo.

Only change I expect would be the introduction of D.Ryan in place of Henderson.

Apart from your Provincial bias munster#1 why would you want to drop Heaslip & Kearney who were certainly not as poor as others in Murrayfield and have 7 Munster players on team (Assuming Furlong not fit agree with all except POM & Earls).

The provincial bias goes both ways

I don't think there is a need to drop Heaslip - but I don't think its clear what our best backrow is, and given the options we have there, no player should be assured of his place. I do think there is a very good case for POM - who is alongside him - you can argue all day about that

Kearney has been done to death (he was either the best or the worst back last week) - but he is not a form selection, he is not a selection for the future, he is limited in attack relative to other options and while positionally very good, has a long standing and uncorrected issue with tackling/defensive decisions as the last man. I actually can't make the case for Kearney anymore - experience & leadership - we have plenty of experience in the back 3, and there was no sign of leadership last week from him. You are saying you wouldn't pick Earls - I'm assuming that is because you would pick Kearney - I'm genuinely interested - why?

Done to death = Flogging a dead horse.
We get it, you don't agree with a few of Joe's selections.
You've given your reasons but on balance we disagree.
The level of begrudgery aimed at Heaslip is actually irrational beyond belief.
No matter how often you tell us you want to see Stander at 8 we won't accept it until we see evidence to suggest it will improve the overall performance of the BR. For example there is no way anyone in their maddest dreams would drop Heaslip for SOB so as to move Stander to 8 and the same goes for POM. You want to know why - injury and that's without even getting into their individual respective merits.
Jamie would have to be playing a hell of a lot worse than his current form for any consideration of dropping to become a realistic consideration.
I will be forever greatful to CJ that he did get himself sent off that day against SA because it proved his presence in the team makes no difference to the quality of Heaslip's performance.
You will keep on saying otherwise. Round and round we go but it won't change anything, Joe is the man for that.
Joe may not be perfect but he'll do until perfect comes along.
As for RK and particularly last week, I just don't get it. Joe picked the best back three available to him in the best combination possible, surely even you can see that.
Argue the case for Zebo or any other pretender for 15 when those optiosn are realistically available.
Otherwise it's just Aunt and balls talk and pretty pointless.
Stick with Joe's subs policy there at least there is room for ralistic discussion, no matter how unpallatable it might be.

[matt]

As it's Italy, Team I want to see:
Healy, Best, Ryan,
Toner, Ryan
POM, SOB, CJ
Murray, Jackson,
Earls, Henshaw, Ringrose, Trimble, Zebo.

Only change I expect would be the introduction of D.Ryan in place of Henderson.

Apart from your Provincial bias munster#1 why would you want to drop Heaslip & Kearney who were certainly not as poor as others in Murrayfield and have 7 Munster players on team (Assuming Furlong not fit agree with all except POM & Earls).

The provincial bias goes both ways

I don't think there is a need to drop Heaslip - but I don't think its clear what our best backrow is, and given the options we have there, no player should be assured of his place. I do think there is a very good case for POM - who is alongside him - you can argue all day about that

Kearney has been done to death (he was either the best or the worst back last week) - but he is not a form selection, he is not a selection for the future, he is limited in attack relative to other options and while positionally very good, has a long standing and uncorrected issue with tackling/defensive decisions as the last man. I actually can't make the case for Kearney anymore - experience & leadership - we have plenty of experience in the back 3, and there was no sign of leadership last week from him. You are saying you wouldn't pick Earls - I'm assuming that is because you would pick Kearney - I'm genuinely interested - why?

Re our 2 points of disagreement. 1) If Stander was targeted for negative comments to the same degree as you and other Munster fans snipe at Heaslip then I've no doubt you would find it tiresome. On form Heaslip deserves to play. That does not mean he or anybody else is guaranteed to play but just as a matter of interest if Murray or Stander came under the same unwarranted scrutiny would you be in agreement?

2) The Kearney/Earls/Trimble 2 out of 3 selection is much closer. I just happen to think Kearney is playing very well at the moment & Trimble may edge Earls on physicality & has better hands although Earls has greater pace. As I say a marginal call.

Munster#1 in case you have not noticed this is a Leinster fans forum so if you want to troll constantly as you did during Munster(Leinsters declining crowds?) & Montpelier (not interested?) games then expect some negative comments. Personally have nothing against Munster fans on this site and support all Irish teams when Leinster are not playing and others such as Golf Man have interesting insights as well as being more balanced but I don't really get why you don't expend your energy on munterfans unless all you are looking for is to get a reaction.

[the spoofer]

As it's Italy, Team I want to see:
Healy, Best, Ryan,
Toner, Ryan
POM, SOB, CJ
Murray, Jackson,
Earls, Henshaw, Ringrose, Trimble, Zebo.

Only change I expect would be the introduction of D.Ryan in place of Henderson.

Apart from your Provincial bias munster#1 why would you want to drop Heaslip & Kearney who were certainly not as poor as others in Murrayfield and have 7 Munster players on team (Assuming Furlong not fit agree with all except POM & Earls).

Claiming that my opinion is based on a provincial bias is a childish and small minded comment.
If I was looking at the Irish team with a provincial bias, then surely I would want all Munster lads returned to their province to play for Munster tomorrow?

Like many have said in media, online and on the street, Ireland need to sort out the lineout, that is why I want to see POM added.
I would move stander to 8 as he is in incredible form, and despite playing at blindside, he still made the most carries for Ireland last week. Playing him at 8 would allow him to play to his strength.

On kearney, this is purely based on his defensive frailties, which most will agree is an issue with him.
Adding trimble to the wing and moving Zebo to the position he has excelled in this season, would strengthen the Irish team imo.

Ryan and healy for Furlong and McGrath is purely for rotation. I wouldn't have an issue with whichever combination of front row starts, as all are as strong as each other imo, but given the nature of the 6 nations, I would like to see all options being given meaningful game time.

Dropping our best No 8 of all time who has consistently produced the goods over a 10 year period for one from your team is pure provincialism.

[simonokeeffe]

Bowe on bench for Ulster

[Laighin Break]

Anyway, although I did make a little dig at munster#1's team, I wouldn't see a problem with "dropping" Heaslip for this one. I wouldn't consider it him being dropped even as it's rotation for the Italy game, would be a good game to try a few other guys out, especially in the backrow (where we supposedly have great strength in depth).
I would also like a reshuffle of the back three where we really seem to lack cutting edge. Zebo is the only back three player I'd like to stay in there. In my opinion, I don't think Earls is international standard; Kearney hasn't had form in years; Trimble is too slow. Would like to see TOH and A.N. Other given a shot.