Italy v Ireland 2017

[the spoofer]

I don't really get why people mention Kilcoyne's scrummaging. It might not be a strength, but I really don't see it as a weakness either.

It's a massive weakness, when put under any pressure he hinges and drops the t/h. Any ref worth his salt will penalise him all day.

[All Blacks nil]

Over the last few months we have all read articles about the current depth available in Irish rugby, but that is meaningless unless that depth in used.

I don't think it is Joe's fault that the media are continually talking about depth. We've always had this same problem; in two or three positions, we have no back up and are left preying for miracles recoveries (BOD in 07). Hayes, ROG, BOD were all without a replacement. Then Mike Ross. Now Best and Conor Murray.

Take a quick through this forum ( and others) and you'll see it's not just the media talking about squad depth. I'm sure joe may also have alluded to it as well.

[Flash Gordon]

We have to win this game with a bonus point to have any chance in the championship and for me that means you pick Henderson, Healy on the bench and Zebo at fullback. I'd also have Van Der Flier in the team personally.That's not to say that a player like Ryan doesn't deserve to start but I think that if you're trying to rack up points you need a player with Henderson's profile and abilities.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I felt like the balance of the team was off and if we don't correct it then we could hockey Italy and be back to square one against France, so I'd make a few changes. Not many, I reckon the reaction to the personnel has been OTT, but I would make a few changes.

[FLIP]

Henderson's profile and abilities.

Supposed profile and abilities. He showed none of them for most of the match.

[paddyor]

The only reason Henderson started was an injury to Ryan. If you look at how Henderson played (didnt get on the ball much at all) its like he was filling in for Ryan badly ( though id expect Ryan to take more lineout ball.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Dillane looked like he needed more games too, I'd send him back to Connacht this week and then see what shape everyone is in for France.

[simonokeeffe]

Parrisse a doubt for Italy apparently with a kneck injury, though reading between the lines the papers are exaggerating it a little

Ah the old silent 'k' in neck

I read it as keck injury! He should be alright once he's changed them!

I only just mastered spelling loose, neck is my knew workon

They miss his leadership massively. In gen their front five looks lightweight.

[Flash Gordon]

The only reason Henderson started was an injury to Ryan. If you look at how Henderson played (didnt get on the ball much at all) its like he was filling in for Ryan badly ( though id expect Ryan to take more lineout ball.

And I'd have played Ryan last weekend I just think Henderson offers a more expansive option. The comment above about him not having shown any ability is ridiculous in my opinion. He had a very poor game last weekend along with a lot of our players (though he did score) but this kid was being touted as a Lion by many serious commentators given his previous form for Ulster and Ireland. If you have Healy, Henderson, Stander, Heaslip, Van der Flier and O'Brien involved you have some pretty serious ball carrying options.

[Dave Cahill]

yeah but he actually has to do it on a rugby pitch and not in newspaper columns, and its been quite some time since he has

[paddyor]

The only reason Henderson started was an injury to Ryan. If you look at how Henderson played (didnt get on the ball much at all) its like he was filling in for Ryan badly ( though id expect Ryan to take more lineout ball.

And I'd have played Ryan last weekend I just think Henderson offers a more expansive option. The comment above about him not having shown any ability is ridiculous in my opinion. He had a very poor game last weekend along with a lot of our players (though he did score) but this kid was being touted as a Lion by many serious commentators given his previous form for Ulster and Ireland. If you have Healy, Henderson, Stander, Heaslip, Van der Flier and O'Brien involved you have some pretty serious ball carrying options.

Henderson wasnt on the pitch to carry on saturday IMO. He was used as a dummy a few times, but even when he carried he was looking to pop it on. I thought he looked slow/ lethargic on Saturday. Like the first 3 scrums knocked the stuffing out of him.

[offshorerules]

Furlong a doubt for Saturday.

[kermischocolate]

I'm sure I've seen a stat somewhere that Italy have won more games without Parisse than with him.
Not that I'm expecting them to win on saturday, obviously.

Here's a piece I did on Parisse back in 2013 when he was on 93 caps. He has 122 now so if I get a chance I'll update the tables later.

Parisse has played 93 games for Italy - they are broken down below by country



Italy have played 26 games without Parisse and those results, by country played are detailed below

Ta muchly.

[simonokeeffe]

Furlong a doubt for Saturday.

thought he trained today/was expected to train fully despite bruised shoulder?

if hes out IMO they have to start Ryan for the scrums with Bealham on bench

[LeRouxIsPHat]

John Ryan was great when he came on. If there's an award for most improved player in the country then he deserves to win it.

[simonokeeffe]

John Ryan was great when he came on. If there's an award for most improved player in the country then he deserves to win it.

especially when you consider he changed positions too
I got murdered in the comments on threeredkings twitter for saying Bealham is a liability in the scrum, then Ryan usurps him (one would think partially with that in mind), but apparently Bealham only returned to training last Tuesday too

Would like Trimble back for this one

[Oldschoolsocks]

The only reason Henderson started was an injury to Ryan. If you look at how Henderson played (didnt get on the ball much at all) its like he was filling in for Ryan badly ( though id expect Ryan to take more lineout ball.

And I'd have played Ryan last weekend I just think Henderson offers a more expansive option. The comment above about him not having shown any ability is ridiculous in my opinion. He had a very poor game last weekend along with a lot of our players (though he did score) but this kid was being touted as a Lion by many serious commentators given his previous form for Ulster and Ireland. If you have Healy, Henderson, Stander, Heaslip, Van der Flier and O'Brien involved you have some pretty serious ball carrying options.

He could do with hitting some rucks. Hard


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[TerenureJim]

yeah but he actually has to do it on a rugby pitch and not in newspaper columns, and its been quite some time since he has

This, Henderson just isn't delivering of late

[bamboozle]

I'm sure I've seen a stat somewhere that Italy have won more games without Parisse than with him.
Not that I'm expecting them to win on saturday, obviously.

Here's a piece I did on Parisse back in 2013 when he was on 93 caps. He has 122 now so if I get a chance I'll update the tables later.

Parisse has played 93 games for Italy - they are broken down below by country



Italy have played 26 games without Parisse and those results, by country played are detailed below

Ta muchly.

Ireland have lost to Italy but its not reflected in either scenario above

[bamboozle]

John Ryan was great when he came on. If there's an award for most improved player in the country then he deserves to win it.

What i dont get about Ryan is in 2012 he did really well apparently for London Irish on loan, its taken another 4 seasons for an impact at Munster.

I would hold off SOB for impact in last 20 and i'd start either VDF of even POM at 7, ideally VDF to give more balance to backrow and speed to pack, alternatively POM to provide more dog for 60 minutes.
we'll need 4 trys, unleashing Healy and SOb in last 20 will help this.