Italy v Ireland 2017

[Oldschool]

As it's Italy, Team I want to see:
Healy, Best, Ryan,
Toner, Ryan
POM, SOB, CJ
Murray, Jackson,
Earls, Henshaw, Ringrose, Trimble, Zebo.

Only change I expect would be the introduction of D.Ryan in place of Henderson.

Apart from your Provincial bias munster#1 why would you want to drop Heaslip & Kearney who were certainly not as poor as others in Murrayfield and have 7 Munster players on team (Assuming Furlong not fit agree with all except POM & Earls).

Claiming that my opinion is based on a provincial bias is a childish and small minded comment.
If I was looking at the Irish team with a provincial bias, then surely I would want all Munster lads returned to their province to play for Munster tomorrow?

Like many have said in media, online and on the street, Ireland need to sort out the lineout, that is why I want to see POM added.
I would move stander to 8 as he is in incredible form, and despite playing at blindside, he still made the most carries for Ireland last week. Playing him at 8 would allow him to play to his strength.

On kearney, this is purely based on his defensive frailties, which most will agree is an issue with him.
Adding trimble to the wing and moving Zebo to the position he has excelled in this season, would strengthen the Irish team imo.

Ryan and healy for Furlong and McGrath is purely for rotation. I wouldn't have an issue with whichever combination of front row starts, as all are as strong as each other imo, but given the nature of the 6 nations, I would like to see all options being given meaningful game time.

Funnily enough playing Heaslip at 8 allows him to play to his strengths too and Heaslip has been in magnificent form, even as recently as last week. He was even short listed for IRB player of the year last year.
He also proved just how good a player he is against SA in the game that Stander got himself sent off quite early on.
Your provincial bias may not be your problem but your begrudgery of Jamie Heaslip certainly is.
The usual rubbish from you regarding props. Ryan is a wet day in the squad, I think he'll prove himself but jaysus lad give it a break, it's not even amusing any more, you need some new material.

[Oldschool]

Online fora are the only reality where it happens thankfully. The number of world class coaches including some from Munster that have been proven wrong for selecting him really is staggering.

I'd ignore a lot of what is said about Heaslip - there has always been players that draw the ire of the rabid one eyed fans in all provinces and he is one of them

That said we now have, for the first time in probably 8 years, a viable alternative, and huge strength in depth in the backrow. Genuine question - do you think Heaslip is/should be untouchable in the Irish team?

If he's good enough he's untouchable enough.
He's good enough.
BTW that was rhetorical question, not a serious one.

[Oldschool]

The Munsters are really dying to get Heaslip out of the team

Imagine the party down there when Heaslip hangs up the boots.

And Jack Conan is selected for Ireland at 8.

I believe they do good wakes in that part of the country too.

[suisse]

As it's Italy, Team I want to see:
Healy, Best, Ryan,
Toner, Ryan
POM, SOB, CJ
Murray, Jackson,
Earls, Henshaw, Ringrose, Trimble, Zebo.

Only change I expect would be the introduction of D.Ryan in place of Henderson.

Apart from your Provincial bias munster#1 why would you want to drop Heaslip & Kearney who were certainly not as poor as others in Murrayfield and have 7 Munster players on team (Assuming Furlong not fit agree with all except POM & Earls).

Claiming that my opinion is based on a provincial bias is a childish and small minded comment.

The thing is though, you've been calling for Heaslip to be out of the team for 10 days now. "There is a discussion elsewhere" you and your mates down in limerick. I can't think of anything he did last Saturday that deems him more worthy of being dropped than anyone else in the backrow.

Provincial bias cuts right through Irish rugby. I don't care enough to read what Welsh, Scottish and English fans say about their team, but I've always wondered if it is the same. The42 is always entertaining for provincial cr@p. Slag off Heaslip; lots and lots and green thumbs. Say Stander should be dropped; poster bullied and vilified (and you could probably say the same has happened to you here for suggesting Healsip is dropped)(although Irish people, more than most, are completely intolerant to the alternative POV, no matter what the subject). Someone says Earls is overrated: Be reminded again and again that he's Ireland's record try scorer in the World Cup, a tournament we're not playing in now. And on and on and on.

Genuine question - do you think Heaslip is/should be untouchable in the Irish team?

No. No-one is. But all this talk of a backrow imbalance. The real buzzwords of the week. I don't remember the same discussion after we lost to NZ at home, with the 6-8. Heaslip will eventually lose his place, but is he playing well enough now to retain the jersey? I think so. And obviously so does Joe Schmidt.

[Golf Man]

The provincial bias goes both ways

I don't think there is a need to drop Heaslip - but I don't think its clear what our best backrow is, and given the options we have there, no player should be assured of his place. I do think there is a very good case for POM - who is alongside him - you can argue all day about that

Kearney has been done to death (he was either the best or the worst back last week) - but he is not a form selection, he is not a selection for the future, he is limited in attack relative to other options and while positionally very good, has a long standing and uncorrected issue with tackling/defensive decisions as the last man. I actually can't make the case for Kearney anymore - experience & leadership - we have plenty of experience in the back 3, and there was no sign of leadership last week from him. You are saying you wouldn't pick Earls - I'm assuming that is because you would pick Kearney - I'm genuinely interested - why?

Re our 2 points of disagreement. 1) If Stander was targeted for negative comments to the same degree as you and other Munster fans snipe at Heaslip then I've no doubt you would find it tiresome. On form Heaslip deserves to play. That does not mean he or anybody else is guaranteed to play but just as a matter of interest if Murray or Stander came under the same unwarranted scrutiny would you be in agreement? - listen I, as a Munster fan find the sniping at Heaslip tiresome and ridiculous. That said the rabid Leinster fans are just as quick to spout shite about Munster players - Leamy got it all the time, so did Horan, Murray and Zebo for a while, Earls gets its and POM definitely does. Its all shite from both sides - but underlying it (in the back row in particular) there is a debate about the best available backrow (for example for the first time in years I'd be tempted to not play SOB)

2) The Kearney/Earls/Trimble 2 out of 3 selection is much closer. I just happen to think Kearney is playing very well at the moment & Trimble may edge Earls on physicality & has better hands although Earls has greater pace. As I say a marginal call. - Really - Kearney?? barely played for Leinster in the last couple of months and had a half decent game at the weekend, mixing the good with the bad again, and when there are in form options there. There is absolutely a case for Trimble over Earls - thats 50:50



Munster#1 in case you have not noticed this is a Leinster fans forum so if you want to troll constantly as you did during Munster(Leinsters declining crowds?) & Montpelier (not interested?) games then expect some negative comments. Personally have nothing against Munster fans on this site and support all Irish teams when Leinster are not playing and others such as Golf Man have interesting insights as well as being more balanced but I don't really get why you don't expend your energy on munterfans unless all you are looking for is to get a reaction.

[Peg Leg]

Can we stop with the "rotation" rhetoric? Best team needs to start and we need to win, a BP would help too.

[Golf Man]

The thing is though, you've been calling for Heaslip to be out of the team for 10 days now. "There is a discussion elsewhere" you and your mates down in limerick. I can't think of anything he did last Saturday that deems him more worthy of being dropped than anyone else in the backrow.

Provincial bias cuts right through Irish rugby. I don't care enough to read what Welsh, Scottish and English fans say about their team, but I've always wondered if it is the same. The42 is always entertaining for provincial cr@p. Slag off Heaslip; lots and lots and green thumbs. Say Stander should be dropped; poster bullied and vilified (and you could probably say the same has happened to you here for suggesting Healsip is dropped)(although Irish people, more than most, are completely intolerant to the alternative POV, no matter what the subject). Someone says Earls is overrated: Be reminded again and again that he's Ireland's record try scorer in the World Cup, a tournament we're not playing in now. And on and on and on.

Fair comment, it goes in all directions - one look here or Munsterfans for example will tell you that it the vocal and loud minority however - I get annoyed by people being completely one eyed when it comes to Ireland - whether thats promoting or defending a player

Genuine question - do you think Heaslip is/should be untouchable in the Irish team?

No. No-one is. But all this talk of a backrow imbalance. The real buzzwords of the week. I don't remember the same discussion after we lost to NZ at home, with the 6-8. Heaslip will eventually lose his place, but is he playing well enough now to retain the jersey? I think so. And obviously so does Joe Schmidt.

Just to note the backrow imbalance was discussed before the Scotland game - particularly highlighting that we were vulnerable at the lineout, and highlighting how important the lineout is to our overall approach. In reality until POM is fit we don't know where Schmidt actually stands on this. Whether its Heaslip or Stander is kind of besides the point - they are both excellent options that we are lucky to have. We can expect teams to go after our lineout now - Ryan if he starts is a better option in the lineout than Henderson at this point in time, but he alone is not going to solve anything

[jimbobjoe]

Can we stop with the "rotation" rhetoric? Best team needs to start and we need to win, a BP would help too.

Exactly and if anyone actually pays attention they'll know that Ireland don't do rotation/risk for the 6N, that's done during summer & November.

[Golf Man]

Can we stop with the "rotation" rhetoric? Best team needs to start and we need to win, a BP would help too.

Whats the best team to deliver that though

[jimbobjoe]

D Ryan starts, Henderson out of the 23. Gilroy in place of Bowe. Healy and Mcgrath swap.

[jimbobjoe]

Henderson with a slight hamstring strain. Trimble close.

[matt]

Re current Munster players Murray was always the best available scrum half while acknowledging his pass needed to improve & has done so. He should be no 1 Lions scrum half. Zebo has had to work on rucking, concentration & other aspects of his game and the promise/attacking ability shown in previous seasons is now shown in more developed player.

POM was our first choice no 6 to Oct 15 injury & was widely praised for his importance to the team and while his road back from injury has been difficult I & others were positive about his contribution v Australia in Nov when he came on as sub. He is a future captain of Ireland but at moment is competing for no 20 spot unless he or Stander is considered for no 7.

Earls is a light, sharp, pacy player whose hands are poor. He will be a contender for wing position into 2019 & on form can pose great attacking threat.

While Tracy is rightly highly rated Leinster fans have said he needs to work on throwing & in meantime N.Scannell ahead. John Ryan is also a big success this year and appears on upward curve ahead of Bealham but behind Furlong. I really like Kilcoyne esp in open play and not sure how much distance between him & Healy but both excellent behind the world class Jack Mc Grath. Also very pleased Donnacha Ryan playing so well & over injury problems.

Now having said such good things about Munster players have to mention other Leinster players on the up like A.Byrne, Ringrose, Henshaw, O'Loughlin, Carbury, L.McGrath, Leavy, Conan, VDF. All young players with a great future.

[wixfjord]

A big vote of confidence in Healy and also an admittance that McGrath's incredibly high levels of performance have dropped slightly since Autumn.

[Raydollard]

Keatley in Italy and Madigan in France - absolutely inexplicable lunacy in that Keatley is unplayable even against a useless team like Italy.

[simonokeeffe]

Who saw Gilroy coming?

[Laighin Break]

Can we stop with the "rotation" rhetoric? Best team needs to start and we need to win, a BP would help too.

Exactly and if anyone actually pays attention they'll know that Ireland don't do rotation/risk for the 6N, that's done during summer & November.

That's true of the summer tour, but not true in the November internationals, unless we have a game against one of the minnow nations.

[CiaranIrl]

Keatley in Italy and Madigan in France - absolutely inexplicable lunacy in that Keatley is unplayable even against a useless team like Italy.

Inexplicable, despite the fact that the dog on the street could tell you exactly why madigan wasn't selected.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

A big vote of confidence in Healy and also an admittance that McGrath's incredibly high levels of performance have dropped slightly since Autumn.

I would agree his form has dipped slightly, but would still have thought he was playing well and certainly better than Healy.

[paddyor]

The thing is though, you've been calling for Heaslip to be out of the team for 10 days now. "There is a discussion elsewhere" you and your mates down in limerick. I can't think of anything he did last Saturday that deems him more worthy of being dropped than anyone else in the backrow.

Provincial bias cuts right through Irish rugby. I don't care enough to read what Welsh, Scottish and English fans say about their team, but I've always wondered if it is the same. The42 is always entertaining for provincial cr@p. Slag off Heaslip; lots and lots and green thumbs. Say Stander should be dropped; poster bullied and vilified (and you could probably say the same has happened to you here for suggesting Healsip is dropped)(although Irish people, more than most, are completely intolerant to the alternative POV, no matter what the subject). Someone says Earls is overrated: Be reminded again and again that he's Ireland's record try scorer in the World Cup, a tournament we're not playing in now. And on and on and on.

Fair comment, it goes in all directions - one look here or Munsterfans for example will tell you that it the vocal and loud minority however - I get annoyed by people being completely one eyed when it comes to Ireland - whether thats promoting or defending a player

Genuine question - do you think Heaslip is/should be untouchable in the Irish team?

No. No-one is. But all this talk of a backrow imbalance. The real buzzwords of the week. I don't remember the same discussion after we lost to NZ at home, with the 6-8. Heaslip will eventually lose his place, but is he playing well enough now to retain the jersey? I think so. And obviously so does Joe Schmidt.

Just to note the backrow imbalance was discussed before the Scotland game - particularly highlighting that we were vulnerable at the lineout, and highlighting how important the lineout is to our overall approach. In reality until POM is fit we don't know where Schmidt actually stands on this. Whether its Heaslip or Stander is kind of besides the point - they are both excellent options that we are lucky to have. We can expect teams to go after our lineout now - Ryan if he starts is a better option in the lineout than Henderson at this point in time, but he alone is not going to solve anything

The problem in the lineout had nothing to do with the backrow, it was Henderson(took 0) and also Rory Best. Stander has become a lineout option.

[Golf Man]

Pretty much as expected - Henderson picking up an "injury" is a bit of a surprise, and don't think anyone saw Gilroy coming

We'll probably win and probably quite well - much bigger tests to come obviously