Ireland v France Sat 25th Feb 2017 4.50pm

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Re: Ireland v France Sat 25th Feb 2017 4.50pm

Postby jezzer » February 28th, 2017, 4:22 pm

Oldschool wrote:
jezzer wrote:
Laighin Break wrote:You don't want to know!

Anywho, what are people's thoughts of Sexton taking the dropgoal when we already had penalty advantage from a kickable position? I much prefer going for the gamble of a cross field kick or a garryowen, and then kicking the points if it doesn't work out.


Personally, I hate the logic of taking the DG. But JS was obviously stoked to have landed it and the boost that gave our midfield general might have made an unseen difference overall to the result, for as long as he stayed on the pitch afterward.

In isolation though I think it's a daft option. Not as convinced him overriding Best and running it earlier on was such a bad call. We couldn't see what he saw when he tapped. But I suppose the lack of points from that visit de facto makes it not a great call in a tight game.

Bit surprised at you there Jezzer.
A DG is a great option to have in an OH/SH combinations locker.
If Sexton had missed the DG he still had the penalty coming, he may have already decided he was going to kick the points
At that point in the game I think Ireland wanted more points on the board .
Nudge - 2009 GS.


What I meant OS is that Sexton was more than 80% likely to land the penalty from that range. SO basically he has 3 points in the bag (or about 2.5 points if you want to be really picky) and an advantage to do something with. Why trade your advantage for a DG, which gets you the same points you would have had anyway? Might as well try a crossfield kick or a speculative grubber and come back for the 2.5/3 points if it doesn't work.

But as I said, and Dave C repeated, there is a hidden upside to the made DG in that it gave JS a clear boost to have nailed it. It still isn't worth wasting an advantage in my view.
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Re: Ireland v France Sat 25th Feb 2017 4.50pm

Postby Oldschool » February 28th, 2017, 6:10 pm

jezzer wrote:What I meant OS is that Sexton was more than 80% likely to land the penalty from that range. SO basically he has 3 points in the bag (or about 2.5 points if you want to be really picky) and an advantage to do something with. Why trade your advantage for a DG, which gets you the same points you would have had anyway? Might as well try a crossfield kick or a speculative grubber and come back for the 2.5/3 points if it doesn't work.

But as I said, and Dave C repeated, there is a hidden upside to the made DG in that it gave JS a clear boost to have nailed it. It still isn't worth wasting an advantage in my view.

Fair point Jezzer, I need to brush up my analysis.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
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Re: Ireland v France Sat 25th Feb 2017 4.50pm

Postby suisse » February 28th, 2017, 8:58 pm

jezzer wrote:It still isn't worth wasting an advantage in my view.


There seems to be a war against the DG in recent seasons. Even as a Leinster fan, we have seen games lost because - mostly Madigan - someone wouldn't step into the pocket. Glasgow lost their game to Munster for the same thing. It is almost like most coaches have forgotten that the DG is worth the same as a penalty. I remember watching Scarlets v Saracens and wondering why, at 7 points up, Llanelli didn't steady for a game winning kick. They kept getting pushed further and further back, and then the 10 belatedly stepped back and missed badly off terrible ball.

If you'e happy to take a penalty and 3 points when attacking with no reward, then why not a drop goal? You miss, and the opposition still has to kick the ball back to you from the 22.
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Re: Ireland v France Sat 25th Feb 2017 4.50pm

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » March 1st, 2017, 12:48 am

Wasn't there some mad stat recently about Connacht's winning drop goal being their first successful drop goal in about 4 seasons?
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Re: Ireland v France Sat 25th Feb 2017 4.50pm

Postby Laighin Break » March 1st, 2017, 9:21 am

suisse wrote:
jezzer wrote:It still isn't worth wasting an advantage in my view.


There seems to be a war against the DG in recent seasons. Even as a Leinster fan, we have seen games lost because - mostly Madigan - someone wouldn't step into the pocket. Glasgow lost their game to Munster for the same thing. It is almost like most coaches have forgotten that the DG is worth the same as a penalty. I remember watching Scarlets v Saracens and wondering why, at 7 points up, Llanelli didn't steady for a game winning kick. They kept getting pushed further and further back, and then the 10 belatedly stepped back and missed badly off terrible ball.

If you'e happy to take a penalty and 3 points when attacking with no reward, then why not a drop goal? You miss, and the opposition still has to kick the ball back to you from the 22.


Madigan didn't get a lot of time at 10 for Leinster. I'd blame Gopperth more, mainly because of that missed dropgoal in front of the posts against Toulon :(
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Re: Ireland v France Sat 25th Feb 2017 4.50pm

Postby jezzer » March 1st, 2017, 11:13 am

suisse wrote:
jezzer wrote:It still isn't worth wasting an advantage in my view.


There seems to be a war against the DG in recent seasons. Even as a Leinster fan, we have seen games lost because - mostly Madigan - someone wouldn't step into the pocket. Glasgow lost their game to Munster for the same thing. It is almost like most coaches have forgotten that the DG is worth the same as a penalty. I remember watching Scarlets v Saracens and wondering why, at 7 points up, Llanelli didn't steady for a game winning kick. They kept getting pushed further and further back, and then the 10 belatedly stepped back and missed badly off terrible ball.

If you'e happy to take a penalty and 3 points when attacking with no reward, then why not a drop goal? You miss, and the opposition still has to kick the ball back to you from the 22.


I think we're talking at cross purposes a bit. I'm only talking about when a team has a penalty advantage in easy kicking range. They're going to get 3 points from the penalty anyway, so why not use the advantage to go for 7 and come back for the 3 if it fails. Taking the DG is just burning your advantage for no gain.

In general play, though, I totally agree. The DG is underused and especially in game'winning situations. Teams prefer to go through phases to try to win a penalty.
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Re: Ireland v France Sat 25th Feb 2017 4.50pm

Postby Ruckedtobits » March 1st, 2017, 10:50 pm

Changing tack slightly, but staying with the Drop Goal event. Rewatching the second half, one can't but marvel at the burst by Earls, which IMO, was a major contribution to the DG opportunity.

Sarin kicks a high box kick from his own 22 mtrs to Earls receiving on our 10m line, which he takes comfortably without pressure about 15m infield. He immediately glances up and puts on tbe afterburners, in a fashion not usually seen unless he's within 10m of opposition line. His acceleration is such that he powers through a double tackle by the French captain and their No 6 before finally being brought to ground by Sarin, now about 14m inside the French half.

The ball is taken on by Henshaw and then by Heaslip to a breakdown /ruck just 7m short of the French 22m, where their No 6, still trying to redeem himself from being blown away in tackling Ireland smallest player, goes to ground with a side entry to the ruck and concedes a penalty, which Owens signals and calls. Murray hears the call from J10, now standing on the 10m line deep and to the right of the ruck, where he collects, takes two short steps and delivers a perfect strike from 40m.

Great strike, but huge credit Earlsy for a superb burst which turned defence into attack in the classic fashion.
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Re: Ireland v France Sat 25th Feb 2017 4.50pm

Postby Oldschoolsocks » March 2nd, 2017, 12:12 am

johng wrote:Dare I mention Micko Driscoll? Good bread and butter lad there. Ask Leo.

Please don't johng
the irony being that ad-hominen and appeal to majority are the most often used defences of the apologist.
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Re: Ireland v France Sat 25th Feb 2017 4.50pm

Postby ronk » March 2nd, 2017, 1:13 am

I'm a big fan of the tactical drop goal. Teams give up penalties but you take drop goals. If you take them early in the phases you make it hard on a defence that's prepared to hold you out.
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