Ireland v France Sat 25th Feb 2017 4.50pm

[Dave Cahill]

If all are fit and in form, then its Isa, Rob, plus one

[Logorrhea]

If all are fit and in form, then its Isa, Rob, plus one

Yep. Isa and Rob is a bit of a no brainer. I'd imagine the +1 would be a tight call between Dave K and O'Loughlin.

[MunsterSugar]

Wow so Byrne isn't as good as is being made so?

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[Dave Cahill]

Wow so Byrne isn't as good as is being made so?

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???

[suisse]

For Wasps, if everyone is fit, IMO, I would play 15 Kearney 14 Byrne and 11 Nacewa with ROL or Dave Kearney on the bench.

I say that as someone who isn't a huge Rob K fan, but he'll play in that game. The beauty of sitting high in the stands is you see a lot more of what TV viewers or lower level people don't see. Kearney's positional plays is outstanding. He knows where runners are going to be or where 10s are kicking the ball. Unfortunately he will fall off tackles every now and again though.

[suisse]

We could well be looking at Aki and Payne as the centers, which would be unreal, especially if you have Henshaw playing at fullback.
That would give Ireland some serious grunt.

It would also be terrible

[munster#1]

We could well be looking at Aki and Payne as the centers, which would be unreal, especially if you have Henshaw playing at fullback.
That would give Ireland some serious grunt.

It would also be terrible

Terrible? Care to add to that statement?

For me it is hard to see Henshaw, Payne and Aki not starting for Ireland when fit.

Payne when fit has always been first choice 13, and imo Ringrose has not done enough yet to displace him.

Aki is Aki, he is a player that has to be first choice, Ireland are lacking a player of his obvious ability, imo he would be a great player for Zebo to play link plays with.

Henshaw, although not yet the complete player, has shown some serious hunger for work and is a Joe Schmidt favorite, it is important to have him on the field, and imo he could make a very good fullback.

[Oldschool]

Having just looked at the first half again.
1. Ireland were good.
2. France defense was very good.
3. Our BR were all good. The problem is simply the way we use CJ and SOB as tight in carriers - a tactical change required more than anything
4. We didn't score as many points as we should have.
5. RK carried very well and coming in as a runner could have been clean thru on one occasion had he not slipped.
It's the kind of run we've often seen Tommy do.
6. Murray and Sexton work well together.
7. Scrums - France didn't really dominate us the way they hoped.
8. Earls had a good first half, alert and a bit unlucky.

[Oldschool]

We could well be looking at Aki and Payne as the centers, which would be unreal, especially if you have Henshaw playing at fullback.
That would give Ireland some serious grunt.

It would also be terrible

Terrible? Care to add to that statement?

For me it is hard to see Henshaw, Payne and Aki not starting for Ireland when fit.

Payne when fit has always been first choice 13, and imo Ringrose has not done enough yet to displace him.

Aki is Aki, he is a player that has to be first choice, Ireland are lacking a player of his obvious ability, imo he would be a great player for Zebo to play link plays with.

Henshaw, although not yet the complete player, has shown some serious hunger for work and is a Joe Schmidt favorite, it is important to have him on the field, and imo he could make a very good fullback.

I don't know whether to disagree or agree with you re Payne/Ringrose but I'd suggest he made the decision a lot tougher for Joe on Saturday.
It's really down to what game Joe wants to play.
If Henshaw, playing at FB, could make some of the carries RK made then his extra power and pace would be telling.
Either way Joe has some very nice decisions coming along.

[Flash Gordon]

If all are fit and in form, then its Isa, Rob, plus one

Yep. Isa and Rob is a bit of a no brainer. I'd imagine the +1 would be a tight call between Dave K and O'Loughlin.

Don't agree on Rob, I think he's become a pretty average player after rugby moved to a more ball in hand game - he absolutely was the best fielding fullback in the world and as someone said his positional read is superb. Last weekend was a case in point, just 16 meters gained vs 59 for Spedding, making 3 tackles and missing 3. I'd have Isa at FB personally.

With regard to Ireland, I do think Ringrose has done enough and he will continue to get better and better so I'd love to see Payne at 15 with Henshaw and Ringrose in the centre.

[MunsterSugar]

Wow so Byrne isn't as good as is being made so?

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???

Alot in Leinster I met thought Byrne was good enough to be capped. Admittedly I think he is worthybof that discussion but if he can't make a back 3 ahead of guys like Dave I think that says he's not rated as highly by some

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[Dave Cahill]

"Guys like Dave'', an international winger with a couple of European trophies, a couple of Pro12s and a 6N championship in his arse pocket in his mid-20s - is that what you mean?

[Logorrhea]

"Guys like Dave'', an international winger with a couple of European trophies, a couple of Pro12s and a 6N championship in his arse pocket in his mid-20s - is that what you mean?

I think that's probably not what he meant.

[fourthirtythree]

I think he's highly rated by all of us but talk of imminent caps is premature.

I think when that English pick for the Lions had him as a bolter it was actually just a placeholder for "some young back three player who is exciting but isn't established yet but might be in a few months time as it's their breakthrough season". Not knowing the Irish extended squad and having watched a few matches at the time it might have seemed reasonable but most people knew he had little chance of being picked for six nations squads.

[Ruckedtobits]

For Wasps, if everyone is fit, IMO, I would play 15 Kearney 14 Byrne and 11 Nacewa with ROL or Dave Kearney on the bench.

I say that as someone who isn't a huge Rob K fan, but he'll play in that game. The beauty of sitting high in the stands is you see a lot more of what TV viewers or lower level people don't see. Kearney's positional plays is outstanding. He knows where runners are going to be or where 10s are kicking the ball. Unfortunately he will fall off tackles every now and again though.

+1.
An astute assessment (maybe because it concurs with my own view). But, it's also worth watching RK's direction of others in defensive positioning. Anybody who seriously believes that Zeebs is an international class full-back-back at present would want to study him at full-back for Munster and how he gets disconnected from his other two back three players. Conway is a much better positional full-back who seems to understand that if you get involved in counter-attacks, you also have to work even harder to get back in position, if / when ball is turned over. It's not somebody else's problem, it's yours.

Zeebs and Earls are outstandingly our best attacking wingers. Payne may yet prove to be a better attacking Full-back than RK. He certainly reads the game as well as RK from full-back and is very vocal in getting others into defensive set-up. RK's major weakness at present is that every International attacker he plays against seems to readily recognise / remember (from their VT preparations) that he rarely, very rarely, tackles with his right shoulder. One would have thought that that should be easily fixed, but it hasn't been for the past three years, so why now?

[Golf Man]

I think he's highly rated by all of us but talk of imminent caps is premature.

I think when that English pick for the Lions had him as a bolter it was actually just a placeholder for "some young back three player who is exciting but isn't established yet but might be in a few months time as it's their breakthrough season". Not knowing the Irish extended squad and having watched a few matches at the time it might have seemed reasonable but most people knew he had little chance of being picked for six nations squads.

I would definitely agree that that accurately reflects Leinster fans on here who would no him better - seems to be a great talent but probably a bit of roughness to be ironed out. There are some good young fast wingers at the minute - you would hope after the summer tour that they get chances - I doubt if there will be many of teh Irish back 3 on the Lions tour (Zebo is probably the most likely atm) - you would hope a lot of the others are left behind and guys like Byrne, Stockdale, Sweetnam, Adeolokun get game time

[Golf Man]

For Wasps, if everyone is fit, IMO, I would play 15 Kearney 14 Byrne and 11 Nacewa with ROL or Dave Kearney on the bench.

I say that as someone who isn't a huge Rob K fan, but he'll play in that game. The beauty of sitting high in the stands is you see a lot more of what TV viewers or lower level people don't see. Kearney's positional plays is outstanding. He knows where runners are going to be or where 10s are kicking the ball. Unfortunately he will fall off tackles every now and again though.

+1.
An astute assessment (maybe because it concurs with my own view). But, it's also worth watching RK's direction of others in defensive positioning. Anybody who seriously believes that Zeebs is an international class full-back-back at present would want to study him at full-back for Munster and how he gets disconnected from his other two back three players. Conway is a much better positional full-back who seems to understand that if you get involved in counter-attacks, you also have to work even harder to get back in position, if / when ball is turned over. It's not somebody else's problem, it's yours.

Zeebs and Earls are outstandingly our best attacking wingers. Payne may yet prove to be a better attacking Full-back than RK. He certainly reads the game as well as RK from full-back and is very vocal in getting others into defensive set-up. RK's major weakness at present is that every International attacker he plays against seems to readily recognise / remember (from their VT preparations) that he rarely, very rarely, tackles with his right shoulder. One would have thought that that should be easily fixed, but it hasn't been for the past three years, so why now?

I don't think the bolded bit needs to be proved. If fit then Payne coming straight into 15 woudl be abig advantage

[fourthirtythree]

While Payne used to be the best full back in Ireland (IMHO) he is no longer even the best full back in Ulster...

That said, I'd personally pick him ahead of Rob Kearney, leaving Zebo on the wings with Earls. Unfortunately it is at least as likely that Schmidt will put him in place of Ringrose rather than Kearney. Because Ringrose has made to my mind more serious mistakes than Kearney. He may have more potential etc. but there is a 6N on.

But given that Payne only had 20 minutes at the weekend we don't know how close to up to speed he is/will be.

[MunsterSugar]

"Guys like Dave'', an international winger with a couple of European trophies, a couple of Pro12s and a 6N championship in his arse pocket in his mid-20s - is that what you mean?

More 1 of worst strike rates in Europe for top winger and not a speedster.
Just because you've a medal doesn't make you a great player. I'm not saying he is terrible but if you consider him an international class winger then I'd just disagreeand argue no more. And caps doesn't make you an international class winger. If so Earls is an international 13 etc


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[Dave Cahill]

"Guys like Dave'', an international winger with a couple of European trophies, a couple of Pro12s and a 6N championship in his arse pocket in his mid-20s - is that what you mean?

More 1 of worst strike rates in Europe for top winger and not a speedster.
Just because you've a medal doesn't make you a great player. I'm not saying he is terrible but if you consider him an international class winger then I'd just disagreeand argue no more. And caps doesn't make you an international class winger. If so Earls is an international 13 etc


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The best coach ever to work in Ireland agrees with me. I'm okay with that.