Ireland v France Sat 25th Feb 2017 4.50pm

[matt]

Looks like RK might be out. Back 3 of Trimble, Zebo & Earls with Gilroy on bench?
Also will Sexton be available?
Last 3 games to get progressively more difficult.

[outcast eddie]

We need four tries to get back in the driving seat.

[neiliog93]

We need to win one of the next two games with a bonus point as England will definitely get a bonus point against Italy and I have a feeling they might manage it late in the game at home to Scotland. This is probably a more doable bonus point than Wales in Cardiff. Given France's renaissance and our dodgy record against them, it's very unlikely to happen though.

[Golf Man]

Bonus points will be a long long way from Schmidts thinking.

France - think we have scored 4 tries against them once (and we lost that game)
Wales - don't think we have ever scored 4 tries in the away game
England - once I think (2007)

We will be doing incredibly well to win the 3 games - and certainly our thoughts should be on doing that first and foremost - any chasing of bonus points v France and Wales would be mental. If we beat France and Wales we then see where we are v England - likelihood is that they will be either 3 or 4 points ahead of us with a better points difference - they could very easily put 70 points on Italy

If we can still win the championship on teh last day form this position I'll be very happy

Its more likley that Scotland will deny England a bonus point rather than us getting one v Wales and France

[suisse]

Bonus point against France?

[olaf the fat]

Bonus points will be a long long way from Schmidts thinking.

France - think we have scored 4 tries against them once (and we lost that game)
Wales - don't think we have ever scored 4 tries in the away game
England - once I think (2007)

We will be doing incredibly well to win the 3 games - and certainly our thoughts should be on doing that first and foremost - any chasing of bonus points v France and Wales would be mental. If we beat France and Wales we then see where we are v England - likelihood is that they will be either 3 or 4 points ahead of us with a better points difference - they could very easily put 70 points on Italy

If we can still win the championship on teh last day form this position I'll be very happy

Its more likley that Scotland will deny England a bonus point rather than us getting one v Wales and France

France could go either way, there is usually little more than one score between us. I think Cardiff on a Friday will be a big ask. It is a tough challenge to win against anyway of these teams.

I think by the final game our hopes of the championship will be over - no pressure on us but major pressure on England.

[Golf Man]

Bonus points will be a long long way from Schmidts thinking.

France - think we have scored 4 tries against them once (and we lost that game)
Wales - don't think we have ever scored 4 tries in the away game
England - once I think (2007)

We will be doing incredibly well to win the 3 games - and certainly our thoughts should be on doing that first and foremost - any chasing of bonus points v France and Wales would be mental. If we beat France and Wales we then see where we are v England - likelihood is that they will be either 3 or 4 points ahead of us with a better points difference - they could very easily put 70 points on Italy

If we can still win the championship on teh last day form this position I'll be very happy

Its more likley that Scotland will deny England a bonus point rather than us getting one v Wales and France

France could go either way, there is usually little more than one score between us. I think Cardiff on a Friday will be a big ask. It is a tough challenge to win against anyway of these teams.

I think by the final game our hopes of the championship will be over - no pressure on us but major pressure on England.

Agree - traditionally a good year will see us win 2 of those 3 games - as often as not we don't even do that - we didn't beat any of them last year

I think we need to win at least 2 of those games though -> another season with only 2 6n wins is not good enough

[fourthirtythree]

I think we need to win at least 2 of those games though -> another season with only 2 6n wins is not good enough

Definitely, and it's another reason that the selections won't be future oriented.

[the spoofer]

Darce has a decent article in the IT today. He talks about running the legs off the French. Goujon is out and he has been very good for them. Nigel is the perfect ref for a quick high octane game.

[suisse]

Darce has a decent article in the IT today. He talks about running the legs off the French. Goujon is out and he has been very good for them. Nigel is the perfect ref for a quick high octane game.

EOS has been saying that throughout the Champions Cup. Just move France across the park.

[outcast eddie]

Bonus point against France?

Why not?

We BP'd NZ not so long ago, let's step on from that.

[Golf Man]

I think the point is more that we shouldn't go into the game chasing a bonus point - if we are 15 points up with 20 minutes left, then the thinking might change, but chasing bonus points from the off on the basis of what might happen in several other games is pointless. Don't think it will even enter their heads tbh

[Flash Gordon]

I think the point is more that we shouldn't go into the game chasing a bonus point - if we are 15 points up with 20 minutes left, then the thinking might change, but chasing bonus points from the off on the basis of what might happen in several other games is pointless. Don't think it will even enter their heads tbh

That's the standard. If we want to win the championship we have to go in with a bonus point mentality. If we're happy with a respectable 2nd or 3rd then don't adopt a bonus point mentality. We've seen Leinster do this over the years against powerful teams like ASM, Bath, Leicester etc. Sure, you'd like to keep your options broader but we lost to Scotland so the options aren't options anymore unfortunately!

[bangorboy]

Not wanting to hijack the thread but desperately looking for 3 tickets for this... any help appreciated

[Ruckedtobits]

I think the point is more that we shouldn't go into the game chasing a bonus point - if we are 15 points up with 20 minutes left, then the thinking might change, but chasing bonus points from the off on the basis of what might happen in several other games is pointless. Don't think it will even enter their heads tbh

Don't disagree with any of that but believe that our outlook and game plan should stem directly from the first half against Scotland. We must aim to start like a train with multiple-phase play, ideally with contact with opposition as far apart, laterally, as possible. Hoping and working for points, ideally tries, on the board as quickly as possible, but with the ultimate objective of a Game Plan which is high-paced and abrasive. Line-outs off the top rather than mauled, except in scoring positions. Scrums with quick ball and possible back-row set plays and lots of width and depth in our support lines so that CJ, SO'B, Jamie, Robbie H and Zeebs are running at shoulders, not massive 125+ kg bodies.

A Game Plan to score early and set the tempo of the game, is only dangerous, if your own team is less capable of playing that way than your opponents. To have the ambition and skill to do so has long been the hallmark of good NZ teams and should now be a natural progression for Ireland, given our skills progress in the past 12 months.

[neiliog93]

I'm becoming more and more in favour of pursuing tries early in the game. The rationale is that even if you don't score, you spend up to 10 minutes of the game in your opponent's 22, building up penalties against them that may later lead to a yellow card, and most crucially denying them the territory and possession to score. When Northampton beat us at the Aviva a few years ago, they manically went for tries from kickable penalties, and often didn't score. But they kept us pinned back and we just couldn't get into the game.

I'm obviously not saying to never take the 3 points, but there are strong reasons to go for tries. Especially against a French team with inferior stamina, who need to be run around early for us to be able to take advantage of it late in the game.

[dropkick]

Yeah I'd like to see Ireland go for it. Have no regrets going into the last game with England (should they beat France, Wales and Wayne Barnes). Play at a high tempo and keep the ball moving and not try to bash their way through France. That's the type of game the French are set up to defend.

[matt]

I'm becoming more and more in favour of pursuing tries early in the game. The rationale is that even if you don't score, you spend up to 10 minutes of the game in your opponent's 22, building up penalties against them that may later lead to a yellow card, and most crucially denying them the territory and possession to score. When Northampton beat us at the Aviva a few years ago, they manically went for tries from kickable penalties, and often didn't score. But they kept us pinned back and we just couldn't get into the game.

I'm obviously not saying to never take the 3 points, but there are strong reasons to go for tries. Especially against a French team with inferior stamina, who need to be run around early for us to be able to take advantage of it late in the game.

I agree. This is a game we need 4 trys in order to get 5 game points and a high tempo game with possession & territory gives us best chance. Could see VDF playing a bigger part either from the start or earlier from bench which is more likely as SOB looks in good form.

[jezzer]

The idea of a high tempo game from us is great if we don't commit errors. But France look just as able as Scotland to put us under pressure and they're much more comfortable ball in hand under Noves.

Far as i can tell Noves has been subbing in fresh players very early to counter any fitness deficit. Their bench is pretty handy too, so I don't really buy Darce's theory, unless you can get them defending 25 phase attacks without us letting them off.

I think we should attack them up the middle. Take advantage of them putting pods out wide and hit them around the fringes. It worked for England and can work for us. Get them in a war and trust your better execution. Once you have a lead and French heads drop, you can cut looser and chase tries.

[CiaranIrl]

We'll be kicking in behind them and up and under them all day long. Make them turn and take advantage of their winger's weaknesses. Play for position, then maul them.