Ireland v. England

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Ireland v. England

Postby Twist » March 11th, 2017, 2:50 pm

A quick turnaround and a chance to ease our pain by ruining someone else's fun. Hard to be confident though. It's not that I don't think there'll be a reaction, I just don't see how we're going to score tries.

I'm part of the mob that says our backrow looks unbalanced. Stander looks undroppable, Heaslip has been having a great season (not so much last night) and Leavy won't be considered so I suppose that means POM at 7, although it doesn't feel right.

Our backline looks blunt. I think Payne at 15 would add threat without losing much in terms of organisation.

You can't make too many changes in such a short time, but a bit of freshening up is needed.


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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby simonokeeffe » March 11th, 2017, 5:58 pm

SOB has had a poor few games, we need JVDF but he mighnt be available

Backs have lacked depth (in alignment) but Payne would help and provide (counter) attacking threat

England are looking imperious so far today, we need f*cking manic aggression against them, hopefully having championship won will get to them and we finish second
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby All Blacks nil » March 11th, 2017, 6:19 pm

Joe won't change too much.
He already has to replace Bowe and possibly Murray who's rehab was hardly helped
By Joe's tardiness in replacing him despite his obvious discomfort and distress.
Front row will stay the same despite Best and Furlong's unnecessary long shifts yesterday. McGrath relatively early withdrawal will probably see him play in front of Healy, the only replacement front row that Joe has trusted this season. 2nd row will remain unchanged. Heaslip won't and Stander cant be left out. SOB has justified Joe's faith in him with a super display against Italy so won't be left out either. Leavy should be in the MD23. SOB has made the 7 jersey his own so POM will probably lose out.
The only change in the back line could be the inclusion of Payne. Where is the question.
Either Ringrose or Kearney will be No 23 depending on who doesn't start.
Joe doesn't do wholesale changes. He doesn't trust the MD23 enough to play them . He won't delve too deep into our much heralded depth chart to replace them.
4 wins in our last 9 Six Nations games, 2 of which came v Italy, is a poor record. A changing of the guard is due. Joe has had 4 years to build this team. He has only 2 1/2 years to build his new team
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby Oldschool » March 11th, 2017, 7:12 pm

And the silver lining - we won't have to deal with the favourites tag.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby fourthirtythree » March 11th, 2017, 7:25 pm

Frack that, I always want to be favourites. It means you're more likely to win.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby Dave Cahill » March 11th, 2017, 7:44 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:Frack that, I always want to be favourites. It means you're more likely to win.


Bill Shankley wrote:Only cowards fear being favorites
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby Oldschool » March 11th, 2017, 8:14 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
fourthirtythree wrote:Frack that, I always want to be favourites. It means you're more likely to win.


Bill Shankley wrote:Only cowards fear being favorites

Well there's the problem right there - Ireland fear being favourites.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby ribs » March 11th, 2017, 11:18 pm

Marmion to scrum half, carbery to full back, payne to 13, ringrose to 23, best to be substituted earlier?
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby CiaranIrl » March 12th, 2017, 10:04 am

I think Wales showed the benefits of sticking with your talented, criticised players who will have something to prove. That said, I'd definitely bring in Payne - probably at 15. If Murray isn't fit, well... We're in trouble.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » March 12th, 2017, 11:28 am

CiaranIrl wrote:I think Wales showed the benefits of sticking with your talented, criticised players who will have something to prove. That said, I'd definitely bring in Payne - probably at 15. If Murray isn't fit, well... We're in trouble.


Might be a good thing in the long run. That's no criticism of Murray who I reckon is the best scrumhalf in the world, but if we have to play a little differently with Marmion and it works then we might keep doing it. I know there won't be any major change, but I think we'd play a little wider with Marmion and we wouldn't be asking him to kick much.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby Logorrhea » March 12th, 2017, 12:40 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:That's no criticism of Murray who I reckon is the best scrumhalf in the world

Against New Zealand in November maybe, on current form he's little more than an extra backrow. Defensively great to have but creates absolutely nothing.

He's one of the many Irish players that are currently trading on reputations gained in previous performances.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby fourthirtythree » March 12th, 2017, 12:55 pm

He looked pretty great against France to me. He got injured early yesterday it's hard to judge him on that game.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby Raydollard » March 12th, 2017, 5:21 pm

Time to ring the changes. Payne at 15; Carbery at outhalf; Byrne for Zebo; whoever available for SOB - VDF?. Case too to leave Toner and Heaslip out but no obvious better replacements. Nothing lost in experimenting though as there is nothing at stake save some cash winnings.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby matt » March 12th, 2017, 6:21 pm

I would have a back 3 of 15 Payne, 14 Adam Byrne, 11 Earls. After that depending on fitness either VDF or Leavy at 7 probably only other change although gap between McGrath & Healy, Best & Scannell, Toner & Henderson, Heaslip & O'Mahony all probably marginal on current form & reinforces importance of using bench. Wales brought on 7 players from 62 to 71 mins against our 4 up to 79 mins and that was a contributory factor in our defeat.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby matt » March 12th, 2017, 6:29 pm

Raydollard wrote:Time to ring the changes. Payne at 15; Carbery at outhalf; Byrne for Zebo; whoever available for SOB - VDF?. Case too to leave Toner and Heaslip out but no obvious better replacements. Nothing lost in experimenting though as there is nothing at stake save some cash winnings.


Interested in what people think of Carbury's chances with Ireland & Leinster in next few weeks. I have not seen enough of him to judge properly but he looks like a try scoring machine especially at full back.

I also have a suspicion that JS may give Jackson the "Gilroy treatment" for shooting out of the line for North's first try on 19 mins just after he had come on for Sexton's HIA 19-27 mins. Seems a bit harsh but would give Ireland more options on bench.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby Dave Cahill » March 12th, 2017, 7:41 pm

Some folks might say that the two time Six Nations champions will be a smidge better than an understrength coachless Edinburgh side - but to them I say fie and pish, lets play Barry Daly on the wing
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby ronk » March 12th, 2017, 8:22 pm

Throwing in the towel because we can't win the tournament would send the wrong signal and would set the team back. I wouldn't see us changing much aside from injuries,Payne and gameplan
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby Donny B. » March 12th, 2017, 9:56 pm

Would drop Heaslip and O'Brien. We've too much talent in the backrow to tolerate such shitty performances from them both. Would bring in O'Mahony and Leavy ahead of van der Flier. Heaslip and O'Brien can come back at some stage but they need to learn that playing shite has consequences. In particular O'Brien's garbage pass to no one when we were down to 14 men (which led directly to Wales's second try) had to earn some punishment if Joe is serious about players having responsibility. Serious case to be made about dropping Dev for Henderson too. The lineout let us down again and it's Dev's baby, so he has to take responsibility.

None of the back three should be safe either. Kearney couldn't tackle a fish supper and Payne should replace him. Earls is a quick player but his defensive positioning continues to cost us and it's time to give other options a chance, while Zebo simply looks slow and out of condition.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby All Blacks nil » March 12th, 2017, 10:10 pm

Stander to 8
POM at 6
VDF (if available) or Leavy at 7
With Jamie on the bench.
England's Achilles heel defensively is George Ford. Promote the scrum and let CJ loose off the back of the scrum into the ten channel. Pretty basic stuff but be assured England will be looking to launch Billy V in similar fashion.
Not because JS is a defensive weakness but more the obvious but legitimate targeting of Sexton.
Also it would be interesting to see can Jamie make an impact from the bench

Marmion for Murray who's rehab would not have been helped by Joe's reluctance to replace him.

Personally I'd love to see Carberry at full back instead of RK but the only change I envisage is the return of Payne at either 13 or 15 with either RK or Ringrose dropping to the bench.
Last edited by All Blacks nil on March 12th, 2017, 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby simonokeeffe » March 12th, 2017, 10:17 pm

Donny B. wrote:Would drop Heaslip and O'Brien. We've too much talent in the backrow to tolerate such shitty performances from them both. Would bring in O'Mahony and Leavy ahead of van der Flier. Heaslip and O'Brien can come back at some stage but they need to learn that playing shite has consequences. In particular O'Brien's garbage pass to no one when we were down to 14 men (which led directly to Wales's second try) had to earn some punishment if Joe is serious about players having responsibility. Serious case to be made about dropping Dev for Henderson too. The lineout let us down again and it's Dev's baby, so he has to take responsibility.

None of the back three should be safe either. Kearney couldn't tackle a fish supper and Payne should replace him. Earls is a quick player but his defensive positioning continues to cost us and it's time to give other options a chance, while Zebo simply looks slow and out of condition.


slightly in wrong thread but I couldnt fathom why Dev carried so much v Wales when carrying is not his wheelhouse
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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