Ireland v. England

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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby Oldschool » March 19th, 2017, 4:19 pm

All Blacks nil wrote:Both scrumhalfs did well yesterday and showed that they are quite capable of playing at this level.

Interesting to see the unanimous praise for Luke's super territorial kick towards the end of the game when compared to the reaction to A similar kick by Conor Murray v NZ in 2013 after 77m50s which put the All Blacks back in their 22.
Murray was roundly condemned for "kicking the ball away" whereas now Luke is being feted for executing something similar. Ireland actually regained the ball in that NZ match, when Cruden gambled on a chip kick just outside his 22, before Jack Mc was penalised for off his feet quite a few phases later.
The difference?
To me none,
Two fantastic territorial kicks that put the try needing opposition back in their 22.

Interesting that you're already comparing a rookie SH's performance with an established SH like Murray.
Praise indeed for Luke McGrath.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby All Blacks nil » March 19th, 2017, 4:20 pm

paddyor wrote:
All Blacks nil wrote:
LeinsterLeader wrote:Okay, as someone who's been really looking forward to seeing Payne at 15 (I've long thought he was the best Ireland Full-back available), I don't see the "Excellent" or even "Very Good" votes that some posters having given him for yesterday. Apart from one brilliant run (and lets be honest, he should have been stopped at the gain line) he did okay but if I'm honest I couldn't say he was honestly better than Kearney. If anything with the amount of aerial ball we knocked on (okay it never really cost us but again that was more luck than design) it did highlight, to me anyway, what we missed from RK where teams either don't kick much high ball because he's there or else he gobbles it up. So basically what I'm saying in relation to JP is did I miss something in relation to his performance (i'm open to that possibility, I've never played Full back)? Or is there some confirmation bias going on here in relation to RK?

Remember too, I'm only talking about the reaction to yesterdays performance. To be honest I didn't think JP looked fit. At one stage in the first half he made a run and he was breathing through his a*rse for 5 minutes. However he recovered well and did last until the end, so fair play.




You seem to have forgotten his 1/2 break, getting his hands beyond the tackle and putting Earls towards the corner (Earls knocked on in two man tackle a couple of metres short) during the advantage played for Johnny's first kicked penalty. It is also worth noting his 4/0 tackle count. Although not called upon too often as Ireland dominated possession he was as he has been at centre previously, decisive in the tackle. Although an obviously small sample it compares well with RK's championship stats of 9/5 or 5/5 in the previous two games.
What have the Roman's ever done for us!!!!

At times he was breathing heavily but those times were after long periods of play involving plenty of running. If you looked at everyone else at the end of those passages of play they too were breathing hard or as you so eloquently put it "breathing through their arse"

There was nothing in his forward pass to Earls that Kearney couldn't have done tbh. I was happy to see him get the start yesterday but he didn't really justify the hype tbh. Did nothing Kearney could do, but in part I think that had a lot to do with the conditions

EDIT: Of all the replacements yesterday (Marmion included) he was the least convincing.


Didn't miss tackles like Rob can do.

Last statement is probably true. Marmion had a fine game, Henderson added physicality and dog to the pack and POM did ok as well. As well as Payne played he was as you say probably the least good of the replacements.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby All Blacks nil » March 19th, 2017, 4:21 pm

Oldschool wrote:
All Blacks nil wrote:Both scrumhalfs did well yesterday and showed that they are quite capable of playing at this level.

Interesting to see the unanimous praise for Luke's super territorial kick towards the end of the game when compared to the reaction to A similar kick by Conor Murray v NZ in 2013 after 77m50s which put the All Blacks back in their 22.
Murray was roundly condemned for "kicking the ball away" whereas now Luke is being feted for executing something similar. Ireland actually regained the ball in that NZ match, when Cruden gambled on a chip kick just outside his 22, before Jack Mc was penalised for off his feet quite a few phases later.
The difference?
To me none,
Two fantastic territorial kicks that put the try needing opposition back in their 22.

Interesting that you're already comparing a rookie SH's performance with an established SH like Murray.
Praise indeed for Luke McGrath.


The clue was in the opening line of the post. Did you not read that bit? "Capable of playing at this level" which is the highest level (bar the Lions) that he can aspire to.
Described the kick as super and fantastic but I guess you are reading something else
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby Oldschool » March 19th, 2017, 4:24 pm

All Blacks nil wrote:
Oldschool wrote:
All Blacks nil wrote:Both scrumhalfs did well yesterday and showed that they are quite capable of playing at this level.

Interesting to see the unanimous praise for Luke's super territorial kick towards the end of the game when compared to the reaction to A similar kick by Conor Murray v NZ in 2013 after 77m50s which put the All Blacks back in their 22.
Murray was roundly condemned for "kicking the ball away" whereas now Luke is being feted for executing something similar. Ireland actually regained the ball in that NZ match, when Cruden gambled on a chip kick just outside his 22, before Jack Mc was penalised for off his feet quite a few phases later.
The difference?
To me none,
Two fantastic territorial kicks that put the try needing opposition back in their 22.

Interesting that you're already comparing a rookie SH's performance with an established SH like Murray.
Praise indeed for Luke McGrath.


The clue was in the opening line of the post. Did you not read that bit
Mentioned super and fantastic but I guess you are reading something else

I read all your post and saw all the clues.
I also noticed and read your edit to your original after I posted my reply - gotcha!
Last edited by Oldschool on March 19th, 2017, 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby desperado » March 19th, 2017, 4:31 pm

All Blacks nil wrote:No, but reaction to a win is always skewed compared to the reaction to a loss.
Payne wasn't assured in the air but apart from two as you say unpunished mistakes he was defensible solid, positionally excellent and offensively creative and dangerous..
I like my last line of defence to be just that, a line of defence. I have confidence in Payne as a defender.Joe has always trumpeted his defensive presence.
Have you confidence in RK (2017) as your last line of defence? If so fair enough but 9/5 is a poor tally for any full back. How does it stack up against his Six Nations contemporaries. With the exception of 1/2p I guess not tooo well..


In fairness Joe's trumpeting of JPs defensive presence has been in the main as an organiser (and in execution) at centre.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby MunsterSugar » March 19th, 2017, 4:35 pm

LeinsterLeader wrote:
MunsterSugar wrote:Just on Payne. Factor in his injury and fact he's only back

Absolutely, I have done and I am.

My point was (purely on yesterdays game) was that I didn't see an excellent performance. He was good in the areas he's normally good. He was poor under the high ball. I think he's an excellent full back. Just not yesterday!

Fair point. I'm just giving benefit of doubt on 2 high balls as 2 games in 2 positions against Italians is massive step down in intensity. Especially when 1 game at 15 was in awful conditions.

Agreed he wasn't spectacular but did his basics excluding 2 high balls and showed 1 or 2 flashes.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby MunsterSugar » March 19th, 2017, 4:39 pm

Oldschool wrote:
All Blacks nil wrote:
Oldschool wrote:[quote="All Blacks nil"]Both scrumhalfs did well yesterday and showed that they are quite capable of playing at this level.

Interesting to see the unanimous praise for Luke's super territorial kick towards the end of the game when compared to the reaction to A similar kick by Conor Murray v NZ in 2013 after 77m50s which put the All Blacks back in their 22.
Murray was roundly condemned for "kicking the ball away" whereas now Luke is being feted for executing something similar. Ireland actually regained the ball in that NZ match, when Cruden gambled on a chip kick just outside his 22, before Jack Mc was penalised for off his feet quite a few phases later.
The difference?
To me none,
Two fantastic territorial kicks that put the try needing opposition back in their 22.

Interesting that you're already comparing a rookie SH's performance with an established SH like Murray.
Praise indeed for Luke McGrath.


The clue was in the opening line of the post. Did you not read that bit
Mentioned super and fantastic but I guess you are reading something else

I read all your post and saw all the clues.[/quote]
In fairness All Black Nil. Oldschool will just comment to suit himself. He reads it 1 way and 1 way only
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby All Blacks nil » March 19th, 2017, 4:53 pm

All Blacks nil wrote:
Oldschool wrote:
All Blacks nil wrote:Both scrumhalfs did well yesterday and showed that they are quite capable of playing at this level.

Interesting to see the unanimous praise for Luke's super territorial kick towards the end of the game when compared to the reaction to A similar kick by Conor Murray v NZ in 2013 after 77m50s which put the All Blacks back in their 22.
Murray was roundly condemned for "kicking the ball away" whereas now Luke is being feted for executing something similar. Ireland actually regained the ball in that NZ match, when Cruden gambled on a chip kick just outside his 22, before Jack Mc was penalised for off his feet quite a few phases later.
The difference?
To me none,
Two fantastic territorial kicks that put the try needing opposition back in their 22.[/quote

The clue was in the opening line of the post. Did you not read that bit
Mentioned super and fantastic but I guess you are reading something else

I read all your post and saw all the clues.


My intention was to highlight the difference a result makes. Rather like a betting shop punter will bemoan a bad ride by a jockey in a short head defeat while his fellow punter celebrates a great ride by the winning jockey, rugby fans' judgement is always clouded by the result

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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby Oldschool » March 19th, 2017, 5:03 pm

All Blacks nil wrote:*** Edited by mod ***


*** Edited by mod ***
Last edited by limecat on March 20th, 2017, 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Feeding the trolls
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby MunsterSugar » March 19th, 2017, 5:05 pm

Oldschool wrote:
All Blacks nil wrote:*** Edited by mod ***

*** Edited by mod ***

*** Edited by mod ***
Last edited by limecat on March 20th, 2017, 10:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Potentially libelous comment removed
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby jezzer » March 19th, 2017, 5:19 pm

This site has gone to shit.

It's unreadable. Which is sad, I like talking about rugby. Thanks for the memories.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby munster#1 » March 19th, 2017, 5:29 pm

MunsterSugar wrote:
Oldschool wrote:
All Blacks nil wrote:You however being petty, precious and parochial, deemed it a thinly veiled attack on a Leinster player playing for Ireland despite only words of genuine praise been used. What a tw@t

If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.

I'd be weary of Oldschool he has issues with disabled people and you know what they say about racists and lengths they go

In fairness, oldschool is a bit eccentric, but for the most part is fairly harmless. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe himself and oldschoolsocks are 2 different posters.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby MunsterSugar » March 19th, 2017, 5:34 pm

munster#1 wrote:
MunsterSugar wrote:
Oldschool wrote:[quote="All Blacks nil"]
You however being petty, precious and parochial, deemed it a thinly veiled attack on a Leinster player playing for Ireland despite only words of genuine praise been used. What a tw@t

If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.

I'd be weary of Oldschool he has issues with disabled people and you know what they say about racists and lengths they go

In fairness, oldschool is a bit eccentric, but for the most part is fairly harmless. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe himself and oldschoolsocks are 2 different posters.[/quote]
Sorrt if 2 different guys I apologise Oldschool
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby Peg Leg » March 19th, 2017, 6:09 pm

jezzer wrote:This site has gone to shit.

It's unreadable. Which is sad, I like talking about rugby. Thanks for the memories.

3-4 guys/girls have railroaded every conversation. Used to read every single post, probably miss most of the good info now because I flick through it pretty gast to avoid the shitfest.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby wixfjord » March 19th, 2017, 6:12 pm

Two Ringrose moments stood out for me yesterday.
The first was the sublime pass to Earls in the first half up the right wing.
The second was his acceleration out of the line and hit on an English player in the second, real momentum booster.

He hasn't set the tournament alight, but he certainly has had his moments both offensively and defensively. That 10/12/13 is really knitting well together, bodes well for Wasps.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby Dave Cahill » March 19th, 2017, 6:13 pm

wixfjord wrote:Two Ringrose moments stood out for me yesterday.
The first was the sublime pass to Earls in the first half up the right wing.
The second was his acceleration out of the line and hit on an English player in the second, real momentum booster.

He hasn't set the tournament alight, but he certainly has had his moments both offensively and defensively. That 10/12/13 is really knitting well together, bodes well for Wasps.


It worries me how good Elliot Daly has become though
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby Twist » March 19th, 2017, 6:13 pm

IanD wrote:
jimbobjoe wrote:Some things in no particular order..

Marmion proved today he can do it at the top level.
Conway is a real option going forward.
Ringrose's best game in green?
Luke's box kick near the end was a thing of raw beauty.
Henderson could be a fixture from now.
Henshaw is a monster in the tackle.
Sexy is one of the greatest battlers I've ever seen.
Backrow selection headaches forever!

I've missed loads.. what else?


I am a bit miffed my contribution has been overlooked. I wore my green socks yesterday. Last weekend against Wales I accidentally wore my blue socks. Results speak for themselves.


Ha! I accidentally wore blue shoes for the Wales game. Back to my green shoes yesterday and we all saw the results


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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby paddyor » March 19th, 2017, 6:43 pm

Golf Man wrote:Take aways are that pom has to start - we have a lot of strength in the back row but he simply has to be nailed down. Let the cj heaslip battle start - heaslip will be picked initially I think because cj is an option from the bench but that torch will be passed in the next year or two.

We do not suffer in the set piece with toner out

Marmion was excellent and if murray is having an off day we now have alive option

Ring rose is absolutely worth the approach we are taking with him

We need an attacking threat from full back

Big kudos to schmidt farrell and Co and to mcgrath leave scannell Ryan Conway etc maybe 1 start between them and closed it out

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England didn't compete once on our lineout, instead set themselves up to stop the maul. And they were quite good at it too turning us over 3 times when we got the ball down and effectively killing the ball twice (which another ref might have given a turnover for). That makes us about even in terms of steals/turnovers and disrupting opposition ball. POM had a fine game yesterday but I don't think our lineout is the slam dunk case for him that others are making out.
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby Yord-i » March 19th, 2017, 6:56 pm

Hi guys long time reader first time poster, enjoyed the win yesterday. The pack stood out and stood up to a man, our centres had v fine games and Ringrose stood up well. There were lots of positives albeit inadvertent ones, we stumbled upon the right team through injuries, Payne is no question a better 15 than Kearnage, the best no 8 in the country finally lined out at no 8 and POM finally got back into the side and proved he should have been in there the whole time, the glaring issue however is that POM should be made captain come November with next RWC in mind and will Joe have the cojones to make the necessary calls?
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Re: Ireland v. England

Postby Ruckedtobits » March 19th, 2017, 7:00 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
wixfjord wrote:Two Ringrose moments stood out for me yesterday.
The first was the sublime pass to Earls in the first half up the right wing.
The second was his acceleration out of the line and hit on an English player in the second, real momentum booster.

He hasn't set the tournament alight, but he certainly has had his moments both offensively and defensively. That 10/12/13 is really knitting well together, bodes well for Wasps.


It worries me how good Elliot Daly has become though
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