Ireland v. England

[jimbobjoe]

I suspect Heaslip wasn't injured at all and the plan was always to "rotate" the backrow.

Not a fan of the silly buggers game. We all suspect it's been done before and despite not wanting Heaslip to be injured, I really hope it wasn't done today.

[simonokeeffe]

Skipping to here but balance of second and back rows made a difference not just personnell
SOB had best game of 6n
Henderson back with a bang

Sexton and Payne mongrelled their way through impressively

Furlong and the midfield have been on an upward curve

[fourthirtythree]

I think the third line out jumper as an essential was demonstrated today, but then if all our other oppositions had not bothered competing it would have been an unnecessary luxury.

We discovered today that the gap between our sub nines was actually less than that down to our sub tens. Marmion was the player who surprised me today: he looked so composed at this level which I admit I didn't expect. McGrath did also in his cameo.

Sean O'Brien had his first decent game of the championship which helps. Ringrose was outstanding today, and I'll admit I have suggested he has been given too much of a pass in this championship.

None of the things that made us look good should get around the fact that England f%~ked up. And we gambled with three players fitness and got away with two of them. Earls didn't make it, Conway unfortunately had a poor game when he came on, but we got away with Payne who was blowing hard from 25 minutes and messed up his fielding and should have been exploited more by England. And O'Mahony still wasn't fully fit. I wonder would he have played more had he been through the championship? And given he was deserved man of the match that's some accolade.

Loved Best's communication to the ref about persistent late tackles. It didn't work but the notion that that level of consistent constant just a bit late tackles was accidental is farcical.

[MunsterSugar]

Skipping to here but balance of second and back rows made a difference not just personnell
SOB had best game of 6n
Henderson back with a bang

Sexton and Payne mongrelled their way through impressively

Furlong and the midfield have been on an upward curve

That was it. It's no coincidence SOB played best game as POMs attributes compliment him.

On Henderson. Best game at lock in a long time but interesting he called lineout. Did great job too.
We need to trust John Ryan more too. Furlong is being gassed a bit as most modern day props are doing 60.
Don't want us to flog Furlong as he's a vital player.

[ronk]

England almost had us when they could string together a few mauls but we took away the rest of their platforms. Defence was strong and we were winning turnovers. We held onto the ball well.

I liked how we didn't compete in a few lineouts and then caught them off guard going for the ball.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

The big differences for me were that the defence kept up a fairly manic aggression for the full 80, our lineout was both rock solid and a threat, and we scored during a period of concerted pressure.

Pretty much everyone stepped up and delivered. Saw Jack McGrath criticised above but I thought he had a brilliant game apart from the penalty. The penalty was a serious black mark alright but I really thought he was excellent overall. Best and Furlong showed their November form too. Thought Joe judged the subs well too, criticised him for it recently but not today. Furlong really emptied the tank with a couple of vital tackles just before going off. I liked that he wasn't afraid to replace Best or throw in Scannell, Leavy and Luke for significant game time. I don't think it's a coincidence that they all looked confident in their cameos, he trusted them and it showed.

As good as the performance was, POM was head and shoulders above everyone else IMO. Hugely impressive from Marmion too. I'm not sure that any of us would have doubted his ability, but there's a natural inclination to worry when you're missing someone like Murray and his replacement is being thrown in at the deep end. He was superb though, can only think of a couple of slightly poor passes (not even worth mentioning really) and he didn't put a foot wrong apart from them. Ringrose is another who I'd like to single out. His defence was magnificent and I thought he was a real threat too. Our play was nowhere near as lateral as previous games and that enabled us to set targets and play off them, Ringrose was one of the beneficiaries of that.

In terms of personnel I thought there was one negative and have to say I'm surprised he's praised so much above. I thought SOB was awful for the most part. I think there were three handling errors and good few missed tackles, didnt notice any turnovers either. He had some excellent clear outs and a few decent carries but that's not good enough IMO.

England were poor and I'm surprised their bench didnt do more to get them back into the game. They were lethargic and error ridden compared to their usual standard. I would imagine they took their eye off the ball after winning the tournament last week but I don't want to take anything away from our performance, we made sure they were rattled for the full 80.

[sunshiner1]

And we gambled with three players fitness and got away with two of them. Earls didn't make it

This was the one thing that bugged me today. We've heard all week about Earl's being unlikely to start and suddenly he's passed fit. Then surprise he lasts 40 mins before coming off. I don't know how many times Schmidt has done this were a player who is obviously no where close to 100% is passed by the medics and while Earls had a great 6N he is playing in a position where we have crazy depth. If a player isn't fit and is struggling then don't use him!!! Rant over.

In terms of personnel I thought there was one negative and have to say I'm surprised he's praised so much above. I thought SOB was awful for the most part. I think there were three handling errors and good few missed tackles, didnt notice any turnovers either. He had some excellent clear outs and a few decent carries but that's not good enough IMO.

Didn't think SOB was awful but he wasn't anywhere close to being immense either. He had a good performance but below his usual best.

[Cor. Ind.]

The backrow that finished that game should be our starters going forward.

So well balanced in terms of their primary roles:

POM: dark arts & lineout
Leavy: grappler
CJ: ball carrier

[MunsterSugar]

Personally. Wouldn't write Heaslip out. More a horses for courses approach. But hope Joe learns to trust all 8 options or so he has for Backrow.

[Cor. Ind.]

Personally. Wouldn't write Heaslip out. More a horses for courses approach. But hope Joe learns to trust all 8 options or so he has for Backrow.

Agreed. Lots of guys will get the chance to impress this summer in Japan & Georgia. Hope Mads 2.0 can get fit and put together a string of matches. Great thl prospect.

[Oldschool]

The backrow that finished that game should be our starters going forward.

So well balanced in terms of their primary roles:

POM: dark arts & lineout
Leavy: grappler
CJ: ball carrier

Based on CJ's carrying/control from/at the base of the scrum today - NO and Noo thanks. Still a work in progress.
Heaslip is significantly better at controlling whatever is happening at the back of our scrum.
After this game both CJ and SOB are now under pressure for their places.
Your post indicates that you finally realise what most of us already knew, ie POM, when fit is our best option for the 6 jersey.
CJ proved he isn't ready to replace Heaslip.
JVDF will be first choice 7 ehen available.
This will leave Leavy Conan and CJ fighting for the bench spot.

[Cor. Ind.]

Chuck Berry is dead!

Fcuk Elvis & Jacko...The King is dead!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ROwVrF0Ceg

[hugonaut]

Great win! Absolutely delighted. Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown for England etc., they didn't come near to playing their best rugby. We have seen them blitz the Aussies 3-0 down south and answer everything that was thrown at them down there, so it was a big achievement to take them so far out of their comfort zone that they couldn't recover.

Thought Robbie Henshaw really put a huge mark on the game, broke the English 10-12 combination in two and exposed the fact that Farrell is their general and Ford still [somewhat] an adjutant. They couldn't get any space or forward momentum from their halfback combination because Henshaw, Sexton and Ringrose didn't give them a spare second. Henshaw's wallop on Gentle Ben was a particular highlight for me. What a collision! Teo was counting his teeth coming off.

I'm on record as not being O'Mahony's biggest fan, but he certainly played excellently this evening. Really impressive. Thought he might have got the start ahead of Seany in any case after the Welsh match, but he got an opportunity through a different avenue and made it count. Well played, great effort.

Thought Marmion had a blinder at scrum-half. Didn't break or kick once against the Welsh last weekend [74 possessions, 74 passes], but three of his first four possessions were decent box-kicks today, and he barely put a foot wrong. Great to see that he has the full rounded game that you need to thrive as a test scrum half, because we know that he has the break. Luke McGrath was also excellent when he came on, the box kick into the corner with four minutes left was as important an action as there was in there game for us.

People b*tch and moan about the coaching when we lose, but to be honest the changes that were there were [to a degree] 'regressive' – we kicked more and passed less. The intensity was up from the players on the pitch, and the mistakes were down. Just like against the All Blacks in early November, we kicked a lot of ball and played a lot of one and two pass rugby. We didn't make many mistakes and we forced mistakes from the oppo.

30 kicks, 157 passes vs England [1 kick : 5.2 passes]
28 kicks, 236 passes vs Wales [1 kick : 8.4 passes]
24 kicks, 207 passes vs France [1 kick : 8.6 passes]
26 kicks, 255 passes vs Italy [1 kick : 9.8 passes]
18 kicks, 232 passes vs Scotland [1 kick : 12.8 passes]

The complaints levelled at Schmidt, Farrell, Easterby et al when we lose are all about why we don't throw the ball around more, that we lack 'X-factor', that we don't penetrate the defensive line etc. Those complaints will be largely missing tomorrow, even though we didn't throw the ball around, lacked penetration and X-factor in this match as much as any other game. We kicked the ball one in six times, essentially. The lads defended like a bunch of heroes and played with decent smarts and huge heart though, and that was the winning of the match.

[Golf Man]

Take aways are that pom has to start - we have a lot of strength in the back row but he simply has to be nailed down. Let the cj heaslip battle start - heaslip will be picked initially I think because cj is an option from the bench but that torch will be passed in the next year or two.

We do not suffer in the set piece with toner out

Marmion was excellent and if murray is having an off day we now have alive option

Ring rose is absolutely worth the approach we are taking with him

We need an attacking threat from full back

Big kudos to schmidt farrell and Co and to mcgrath leave scannell Ryan Conway etc maybe 1 start between them and closed it out

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[FLIP]

IRFUs stats making quite the statement against the narrative that POM was the saviour of the lineout.

Lineouts Won -

6 Donnacha Ryan
3 Peter O'Mahony
2 CJ Stander

The lineout POM stole with Toner lifting - a trick we've not often seen, but makes lots of sense.

POM has a busy day with a lot of tackles, and a lot of carrying, but the carrying wasn't effective for only a 6m gain.

Backs up my feelings that Ryan should have gotten the plaudits today.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/39314.php

[munster#1]

IRFUs stats making quite the statement against the narrative that POM was the saviour of the lineout.

Lineouts Won -

6 Donnacha Ryan
3 Peter O'Mahony
2 CJ Stander

The lineout POM stole with Toner lifting - a trick we've not often seen, but makes lots of sense.

POM has a busy day with a lot of tackles, and a lot of carrying, but the carrying wasn't effective for only a 6m gain.

Backs up my feelings that Ryan should have gotten the plaudits today.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/39314.php

There's no doubting that a number of players put their hands up for the motm award.
Both Ryan and Sexton being front runners along with POM imo.

Even if the pundits gave the plaudits to Ryan, it would not take away from the effect that POM had on the game.
Having 3 top quality line-out options made it difficult for England to defend our throw in, meaning that we got much cleaner ball.
Having POM defending the lineout meant that England were getting scrappy ball or not getting the ball at all.

Even Eddie Jones stated that it made a difference, even joking that Ireland were lucky, and that a leprechaun may have tackled Heaslip.

[Fan with smartphone]

Great win! Absolutely delighted. Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown for England etc., they didn't come near to playing their best rugby. We have seen them blitz the Aussies 3-0 down south and answer everything that was thrown at them down there, so it was a big achievement to take them so far out of their comfort zone that they couldn't recover.

Thought Robbie Henshaw really put a huge mark on the game, broke the English 10-12 combination in two and exposed the fact that Farrell is their general and Ford still [somewhat] an adjutant. They couldn't get any space or forward momentum from their halfback combination because Henshaw, Sexton and Ringrose didn't give them a spare second. Henshaw's wallop on Gentle Ben was a particular highlight for me. What a collision! Teo was counting his teeth coming off.

I'm on record as not being O'Mahony's biggest fan, but he certainly played excellently this evening. Really impressive. Thought he might have got the start ahead of Seany in any case after the Welsh match, but he got an opportunity through a different avenue and made it count. Well played, great effort.

Thought Marmion had a blinder at scrum-half. Didn't break or kick once against the Welsh last weekend [74 possessions, 74 passes], but three of his first four possessions were decent box-kicks today, and he barely put a foot wrong. Great to see that he has the full rounded game that you need to thrive as a test scrum half, because we know that he has the break. Luke McGrath was also excellent when he came on, the box kick into the corner with four minutes left was as important an action as there was in there game for us.

People b*tch and moan about the coaching when we lose, but to be honest the changes that were there were [to a degree] 'regressive' – we kicked more and passed less. The intensity was up from the players on the pitch, and the mistakes were down. Just like against the All Blacks in early November, we kicked a lot of ball and played a lot of one and two pass rugby. We didn't make many mistakes and we forced mistakes from the oppo.

30 kicks, 157 passes vs England [1 kick : 5.2 passes]
28 kicks, 236 passes vs Wales [1 kick : 8.4 passes]
24 kicks, 207 passes vs France [1 kick : 8.6 passes]
26 kicks, 255 passes vs Italy [1 kick : 9.8 passes]
18 kicks, 232 passes vs Scotland [1 kick : 12.8 passes]

The complaints levelled at Schmidt, Farrell, Easterby et al when we lose are all about why we don't throw the ball around more, that we lack 'X-factor', that we don't penetrate the defensive line etc. Those complaints will be largely missing tomorrow, even though we didn't throw the ball around, lacked penetration and X-factor in this match as much as any other game. We kicked the ball one in six times, essentially. The lads defended like a bunch of heroes and played with decent smarts and huge heart though, and that was the winning of the match.

Agree strongly with the sentiment that we as supporters get carried away with what we want and also can then be excessively harsh when we lose. Ireland's brand of rugby is hard, tough and fair, which I really like. There's plenty of smarts in there too and I really enjoy watching them play. We also get carried away on victories. No-one being more guilty of this than me.

I have to say though, I do want to see more adventure than we sometimes have had and I don't think that relates to the kick ratio. For example: against wales we kicked too little. Even had henshaw joined slightly more behind best, I'd still have felt like that. It's a Shaun Edwards defense: you've got to turn em. France got 2 tries on them yesterday. One was 30 minutes of attrition after the hooter. The other was a chipped pass over their centres - straight in. Sexton tried that in the last minute v wales, when we were desperate, but he was right in a way: the best way to break wales is use their line speed against them. We were dogmaticish and wales lapped that up.

Yesterday we kicked more but the aim is to create space later and there was invention alongside it. The fake maul (which ended as a forward pass), inside ball to Zebo (which England actually were ready for and read well), occasional wrap around (also England had that number). If the inventive stuff is under too much pressure (due to linespeed) then we must absolutely kick. That's exactly why (I think) Eddie jones and others try to mock Ireland's ganeplan as "kicking the leather off it," or "clap n kick." They are happier getting off the line and smashing people, some of them after the ball is gone too. We also committed large numbers to the clear outs early on yesterday. That's unusual for us, but I think was intended to discourage England from slowing the ball early on, which would allow us to play later. In short, we were superbly directed yesterday against a team that as you say has found ways to win in difficult circumstances and who were clearly well prepped for us.

IRFUs stats making quite the statement against the narrative that POM was the saviour of the lineout.

Lineouts Won -

6 Donnacha Ryan
3 Peter O'Mahony
2 CJ Stander

The lineout POM stole with Toner lifting - a trick we've not often seen, but makes lots of sense.

POM has a busy day with a lot of tackles, and a lot of carrying, but the carrying wasn't effective for only a 6m gain.

Backs up my feelings that Ryan should have gotten the plaudits today.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/39314.php

Is that accurate? Finding it hard to believe he only took 3 to be honest! Ryan (and Henderson) were great yesterday too no question and I couldn't care less about man of the match awards, they were all great, but I've hardly heard sexton mentioned until M1 just there and it's instructive. We just expect him to be amazing.He was battered yesterday but piloted us around the pitch, tackled, turned over and picked himself up to smash over his kicks. He also spoke well as captain, without being the nark that everyone describes him as! He had an incredibly gutsy game.

[Oldschool]

IRFUs stats making quite the statement against the narrative that POM was the saviour of the lineout.

Lineouts Won -

6 Donnacha Ryan
3 Peter O'Mahony
2 CJ Stander

The lineout POM stole with Toner lifting - a trick we've not often seen, but makes lots of sense.

POM has a busy day with a lot of tackles, and a lot of carrying, but the carrying wasn't effective for only a 6m gain.

Backs up my feelings that Ryan should have gotten the plaudits today.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/39314.php

Well we knew with Tremenjous in the saddle the MOM was going to be.
A. A forward.
B. A Munster forward with the 'smart' money on CJ.
We were right except for one thing.
Tremenjous got the wrong man.
Ryan was beyond a shadow of doubt MOM.
He was very much a leader on the pitch and this helped Best.
His power in the scrum was proven beyond any doubt.
England packed Itoje and Lawes on Ireland's TH side and got nothing - That's a compliment to both Ryan and Furlong.
Ryan up against the cream of England and indeed world SRs and he came out on top.
Shame on you Tremenjous - An ex international SR and you couldn't even get that little detail right.

[BlueStreak]

Well we knew with Tremenjous in the saddle the MOM was going to be.
A. A forward.
B. A Munster forward with the 'smart' money on CJ.
We were right except for one thing.
Tremenjous got the wrong man.
Ryan was beyond a shadow of doubt MOM.
He was very much a leader on the pitch and this helped Best.
His power in the scrum was proven beyond any doubt.
England packed Itoje and Lawes on Ireland's TH side and got nothing - That's a compliment to both Ryan and Furlong.
Ryan up against the cream of England and indeed world SRs and he came out on top.
Shame on you Tremenjous - An ex international SR and you couldn't even get that little detail right.

Yeah, but Donncha Ryan's not from Cork

[blockhead]

Well done Ireland, great performance.
And well done England too. 2 championships in a row is an amazing accomplishment.
We know.