Joe Schmidt 2017

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Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby Oldschool » March 12th, 2017, 11:03 am

It's fair to say that Joe probably for the first time as Ireland coach is coming under pressure.
Why and what needs to change.
1. Joe is verging on OCD and it's something he needs to address. It influences so much of
what he does with Ireland.
At Leinster the obsession with precision was manageable because he had so much time with the players.
With Ireland he has a lot less times, perhaps he needs to review his approach.
2. Selection - Joe needs to accept that in the Ireland setup a little on the job training of new entrants is going to be necessary.
This means lowering the bar a little and taking a gamble on some of the young players who are really knocking hard on the door.
In part this means trusting his provincial coaches eg Is there anyone here who wouldn't trust Burt's judgement? Maybe Joe is already doing this but..
3. Substitution - enough said.
4. Joe the target.
Joe is the best or one of the best coaches in the NH.
With the benefit of hindsight it would seem that other coaches are targeting Joe and not just his team.
The bus being delayed, the roof etc in Wales are some examples.
Joe let these incidents get to him.
He can expect more of the same - his obsessive nature makes him vulnerable and now the rest of the world knows.
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Re: Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby Logorrhea » March 12th, 2017, 12:36 pm

No one else think that are players are nowhere near as good as we think they are. That the likes of Heasip, O'Brien, Murray, Kearney, Zebo, Earls, Dev, Best etc wouldn't get within an asses roar of a competitive international team on current form.
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Re: Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby Oldschool » March 12th, 2017, 1:36 pm

Logorrhea wrote:No one else think that are players are nowhere near as good as we think they are. That the likes of Heasip, O'Brien, Murray, Kearney, Zebo, Earls, Dev, Best etc wouldn't get within an asses roar of a competitive international team on current form.

Purely based on age and in some cases injury profile it's unlikely Heaslip SOB RK Best Ryan Bowe will be first choice by RWC 2019.
The decline has begun and the transition needs to begin.
The form or lack of can happen to any player but again alternatives need to be looked at.
Marmion should have got 40mins against Italy for example and no excuses.
Byrne or Sweetman should have been on the bench and given 20mins in the same game even if they weren't going to play again in the 6Ns.
It would at least give them a taste of international rugby and what the challenges are.
None of the above is radical it's about managing the transition.
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Re: Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby simonokeeffe » March 12th, 2017, 3:50 pm

Its an Ulster triple crown of players we can write off on age for the world cup
Best will be 37 for the world cup but this season he was by far the best candidate for the world cup
Bowe and Trimble will be 35

Ryan will be 35 which isnt ancient for a lock but Henderson needs to unfup himself
Heaslip will be 35 but wolverine blood etc

He needs to build for 2019 now and trust skills of players, hopefully new coaching regimes will help or enable that

Injuries havent helped: Cronin, JVDF, Sexton, Carberry, Payne but we need more depth in the backplay, and less predictability in forward carrying
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby Experimental » March 12th, 2017, 4:36 pm

I would share all of Oldschools concerns, and I would go further as to say that the non introduction of players who I believe were far hungrier than some of those who took the pitch was shortsighted (even if they dont know the patterns quite as well). We have an amazing amount of riches at our disposal, and I don't believe for a second that we're not good enough to slam with the talent available in the country. The balance in the backrow is all wrong at the moment and needs to addressed. McGrath, Byrne, Sweetman, Leavy, O'Halloran, Carbery at a minimum should all have seen six nations gametime in some shape or form by now, its really disappointing to see such talent left out. We had a bad day at the office with the lineout, but our lineout has been a strength. We need to be much more ruthless with turnover ball, we are getting slowed down far too easily. The back 3 needs a serious shake up after this six nations.
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Re: Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby carlow man » March 12th, 2017, 6:07 pm

Spot on. This Ireland team must be the slowest team in living memory. The forwards are as quick as the backs which is ridiculous. Our backs are one paced with no acceleration or quick feet. Zebo seems to have lost a yard or 2 of pace. Even earls when compared to the Scots and English backs would be considered one of the slowest. And I rate earls highly! Byrne, gilroy, Conway and sweetnam should all have been in the 6 nations squad and should have seen game time. Toh shoukd have started to fb in every match instead of rob kearney. But expect to see the same old faces next sat as schmidt is obssessed with systems, routines and discipline.
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Re: Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby Oldschool » March 12th, 2017, 6:21 pm

I've just finished reading POC's book and one of the things he said was that captaining Ireland was a lot easier than captaining Munster because of the way Joe did things.
That being the case, who is captain is not such a big deal, he just has to be nailed on for selection and lead by example.
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Re: Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby carlow man » March 12th, 2017, 6:38 pm

Well best hasn't lead by example in this 6 nations. He has been poor around the pitch. No turnovers and no ball carrying. Whilst his throwing has improved in the last few years it's always been his achilles heel. When the pressure is on and we have a lineout in the oppos 22 u can be sure best will f**k up the lineout. Scannell should start on Sat. What's the point in having him in the squad if you refuse to use him? Best isn't getting any younger so let's give scannell a run. Him and cronin would compliment each other over the next few years.
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Re: Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby ronk » March 12th, 2017, 8:17 pm

Joe tends not to make big changes mid squad but he has more history of changing between tournaments. EOS and Kidney tried to select across tournaments though there's been an element of that this 6N.

Fixture list gives him a lot of time to build once this is over but there wouldn't be any time for Lions hopefuls.

Losing 2 matches so far this tournament hasn't been a great return but only England have done better. We had chances against Scotland and Wales and had good wins against Italy and France (rare enough).

Sure we have high expectations but beating NZ didn't automatically mean we were going to win the 6N and Wales have high expectations too. Beating us saved their season and they might lose 3 anyway.

We have a shot at England at home. It would be a big win if we could pull it off. Either way building for the World Cup starts in earnest afterwards.
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Re: Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby simonokeeffe » March 12th, 2017, 10:20 pm

apologies for awakening the Munster Kraken but when your fullback never passes that massively limits your counter attacking options

also we need to cheat more
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby Oldschool » March 12th, 2017, 10:32 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:apologies for awakening the Munster Kraken but when your fullback never passes that massively limits your counter attacking options

also we need to cheat more

Don't give it a thought I've the Medusa's head lying around somewhere in a cloth sack (That's why I keep my magic mirror handy)
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Re: Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby ronk » March 13th, 2017, 12:21 am

simonokeeffe wrote:apologies for awakening the Munster Kraken but when your fullback never passes that massively limits your counter attacking options

also we need to cheat more


Pros and cons of a low penalty game. I have a feeling that it'll help with big games and championships but have occasional bad days.

Passing is only meaningful from positions where players have gotten into positions to beat a loose kick chase. We don't really do that so it's a bit chicken and egg.
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Re: Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby simonokeeffe » March 13th, 2017, 3:46 pm

ronk wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:apologies for awakening the Munster Kraken but when your fullback never passes that massively limits your counter attacking options

also we need to cheat more


Pros and cons of a low penalty game. I have a feeling that it'll help with big games and championships but have occasional bad days.

Passing is only meaningful from positions where players have gotten into positions to beat a loose kick chase. We don't really do that so it's a bit chicken and egg.


I think it places to much in an uncontrollable ie the ref/officials
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby Fan with smartphone » March 13th, 2017, 4:56 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:apologies for awakening the Munster Kraken but when your fullback never passes that massively limits your counter attacking options

also we need to cheat more



Do have to wonder. New Zealand, Scotland, France, Wales all giving penalties away against us in the red zone and its benefitted them. Ireland had given away as many penalties as Rhys Webb on his own and bang - yellow card. Ok it's a legit yellow probably/arguably, but the trend is frustrating.
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Re: Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby neiliog93 » March 13th, 2017, 5:24 pm

We do seem to overestimate the importance of winning the penalty and possession counts, and underestimate the importance of penetrative back play and scoring tries.
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Re: Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby mhow » March 13th, 2017, 6:08 pm

Since RWC 2015 New Caps Awarded

Argentina 26
France 23
Italy 20
Ireland 19
Australia 13
England 12
South Africa 12
New Zealand 11
Scotland 7
Wales 3
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Re: Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby simonokeeffe » March 13th, 2017, 10:23 pm

Fan with smartphone wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:apologies for awakening the Munster Kraken but when your fullback never passes that massively limits your counter attacking options

also we need to cheat more



Do have to wonder. New Zealand, Scotland, France, Wales all giving penalties away against us in the red zone and its benefitted them. Ireland had given away as many penalties as Rhys Webb on his own and bang - yellow card. Ok it's a legit yellow probably/arguably, but the trend is frustrating.


to sound like a douche (quiet down the back) its whats good on paper v whats good on grass
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby ronk » March 15th, 2017, 12:44 am

It's the not necessary penalties that need to be eliminated and there's a lot of benefit in doing that. We didn't have a good day at the office with painful ones over SOB and Henson offside.

Once we get rid of giving away penalties we can start developing when to take the risk. This part of the RWC cycle is good for that
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Re: Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby paddyor » March 15th, 2017, 2:07 am

I think a big part of our low error count is down to Farrell. We seem to compete less for the ball on the ground, prefer to strip or choke tackle for the turnover. England always hax a low turnober count when he was defense coach, seemed to prefer to just get back in the line. Given more than half the tries weve conceded are off first phase im not sure cheating more at the breakdown is the answer.cheating wouldnt have helped with 2 of the Welsh tries and we already down to 13.5 for the 2nd try.
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Joe Schmidt 2017

Postby Oldschoolsocks » March 15th, 2017, 6:57 am

One big problem is we're taking too long to get to ground in the tackle. Too many times we make a good impact but then get tackled and take 20+ seconds to hit the deck and ruck over leaving the defence plenty of time to set and momentum is lost.

Then our backrow is waiting out by the girls for the ball instead of hitting rucks hard. We've seen way too many incidents of the ball spilling out the side of rucks because nobody seems to be paying attention and forwards lining up in the backline ignoring a ruck being turned to shite.

Our entire game is based around good ruck ball, a strong line out and a dominant scrum. Our line out is not functioning at crucial moments (hot and cold for a few years now), refs seem to be reluctant to ref the rucks so we're left with a single attacking platform of the scrum. And I'm not sure we're gonna dominate this English scrum.

Could be a long afternoon :?
the irony being that ad-hominen and appeal to majority are the most often used defences of the apologist.
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