Tour to Japan

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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » June 24th, 2017, 7:59 am

James Ryan already making a much bigger impression than Treadwell...and Dev IMO.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby Hippo » June 24th, 2017, 8:05 am

We've lost all shape. And no 2nd half points!
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » June 24th, 2017, 8:07 am

Very much struggling to see how that went forward. Marshall in no man's land again though, terrible decision to rush up. He's done some good things but made an awful lot of errors too, I just don't get him.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » June 24th, 2017, 8:08 am

Stockdale also rushed up unnecessarily there and meant we were struggling to keep our shape out wide when he got back in the line.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby Hippo » June 24th, 2017, 8:10 am

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:James Ryan already making a much bigger impression than Treadwell...and Dev IMO.


He's looked better than Treadwell alright, but I think Dev's had a good game
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » June 24th, 2017, 8:12 am

I can only think of a great pick up a few minutes ago and the break from the restart as particularly positive things that Dev has done. He's been sent packing on a few carries though and had some lazy clear outs. Very much a 6/10 performance for me.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » June 24th, 2017, 8:19 am

Luke McGrath might be one of the big winners from today.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby nelly the elephant » June 24th, 2017, 8:26 am

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:James Ryan already making a much bigger impression than Treadwell...and Dev IMO.


He's been great...got onto the ball a number of times and looked to make yards himself but always with an eye out for the offload. Really promising.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby Fan with smartphone » June 24th, 2017, 10:23 am

Been a great tour. Add that to encouraging Irish displays in New Zealand and things look bright. Certainly closer to Schmidt's aim of being 3 players deep in every position.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby Dave Cahill » June 24th, 2017, 10:34 am

Fan with smartphone wrote:Been a great tour. Add that to encouraging Irish displays in New Zealand and things look bright. Certainly closer to Schmidt's aim of being 3 players deep in every position.


Let's not get carried away. Japan and the US are as poor an opposition as we have faced this century.

It's very disappointing how poor Japan in particular have been. Since the RWC they've regressed significantly
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby Fan with smartphone » June 24th, 2017, 11:06 am

True. Mind you the sunwolves have been reasonable in super rugby and when you add Michael Leitch to that - I'm not sure they are just as bad as we made them look. But yeah, it's a long way from the best - the sunwolves have also had a shed load of points put on them in super rugby in places too, and we didn't hammer them like say the hurricanes did. I'd agree not to get carried away, but really enjoyed the squad and the games.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby Ruckedtobits » June 24th, 2017, 11:07 am

Dave Cahill wrote:
Fan with smartphone wrote:Been a great tour. Add that to encouraging Irish displays in New Zealand and things look bright. Certainly closer to Schmidt's aim of being 3 players deep in every position.


Let's not get carried away. Japan and the US are as poor an opposition as we have faced this century.

It's very disappointing how poor Japan in particular have been. Since the RWC they've regressed significantly


Yes, they have regressed since RWC15 but only marginally and in some ways they now have more depth and will improve further. Ireland were excellent despite really impressive Japanese tackling and the development of the younger Irish players is very encouraging. Coupled with the form of Earls and Conan, who were both exceptional, we now have a span of talent and experience which augers well for Autumn and beyond.

Great Tour for Joe and his brains trust. Thanks to all the players for their efforts after a really long season. So long as they keep their targets high, there is definitely more to come.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby Hippo » June 24th, 2017, 12:11 pm

That was not an 'excellent' performance today. The first half was good, but the 2nd was a mess.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby Dave Cahill » June 24th, 2017, 12:28 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:
Fan with smartphone wrote:Been a great tour. Add that to encouraging Irish displays in New Zealand and things look bright. Certainly closer to Schmidt's aim of being 3 players deep in every position.


Let's not get carried away. Japan and the US are as poor an opposition as we have faced this century.

It's very disappointing how poor Japan in particular have been. Since the RWC they've regressed significantly


Yes, they have regressed since RWC15 but only marginally and in some ways they now have more depth and will improve further. Ireland were excellent despite really impressive Japanese tackling and the development of the younger Irish players is very encouraging. Coupled with the form of Earls and Conan, who were both exceptional, we now have a span of talent and experience which augers well for Autumn and beyond.

Great Tour for Joe and his brains trust. Thanks to all the players for their efforts after a really long season. So long as they keep their targets high, there is definitely more to come.


Going from beating the Springboks to conceding 13 tries and a 50 point spread over 2 games to what is essentially a Wolfhounds selection is not a marginal regression. The opposition was so weak I don't know it this tour achieved anything really.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby cormac » June 24th, 2017, 1:00 pm

For comparison, Scotland went there with a strong squad last June and only won both tests 21-16 and 26-13. Wales only beat them 33-30 in Cardiff with a late drop goal. Argentina are the only other team to thump them since RWC 2015.

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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » June 24th, 2017, 2:04 pm

Hippo wrote:That was not an 'excellent' performance today. The first half was good, but the 2nd was a mess.


Yeah agree with that.

Would totally disagree with DC about not getting anything out of the tour. In games like these I mainly focus on what we're trying to implement and there was a clear effort to put speed into our play, cut out static ball carriers with no support, give the halfbacks more options on the ball, and get the back three more involved. We did all of that really well and obviously had a load of new guys involved to play that way, that'll definitely stand to us.

That said, Japan were ferocious at the breakdown for a lot of today's game and we coped well. We found ways to tidy up messy ball and still play off it in the way we wanted. I was a bit disappointed with Marmion and Treadwell today too, its not like everything went swimmingly. Not that id get carried away with it but there was lots of good stuff that we can take into next season.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby Dave Cahill » June 24th, 2017, 3:11 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
Hippo wrote:That was not an 'excellent' performance today. The first half was good, but the 2nd was a mess.


Yeah agree with that.

Would totally disagree with DC about not getting anything out of the tour. In games like these I mainly focus on what we're trying to implement and there was a clear effort to put speed into our play, cut out static ball carriers with no support, give the halfbacks more options on the ball, and get the back three more involved. We did all of that really well and obviously had a load of new guys involved to play that way, that'll definitely stand to us.

That said, Japan were ferocious at the breakdown for a lot of today's game and we coped well. We found ways to tidy up messy ball and still play off it in the way we wanted. I was a bit disappointed with Marmion and Treadwell today too, its not like everything went swimmingly. Not that id get carried away with it but there was lots of good stuff that we can take into next season.


I see what you're saying about trying to play a certain way or develop a certain type of game, but without being significantly opposed you can't tell if you're being successful because you're playing well and its working, or because the opposition are dreadful (Leinster vs Zebre last january for example).
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » June 24th, 2017, 3:37 pm

We'll have to agree to disagree. One example of what I'm talking about would be that there were times today when Japan would put pressure on us at a ruck but when the ball would be moved the ball carrier would still come onto it and have someone latching on behind them to drive them over the gainline. Thats a very clear case of sticking to a plan under pressure and is something we rarely saw in the 6N when the plan seemed to be to give it to CJ or SOB and hope for the best.

There are other elements I'd very much take with a pinch of salt. Ringrose led the defence and combined well with the wingers but to me that means very little, it's still something I'd worry about next season because we got caught out wide during the 6N. Same goes for the set piece, we were under zero pressure and the Japanese weren't very competent on their own ball. Plus I think we found out some negative things too and that's useful going forward, manly I'm thinking that Luke Marshall and TOH may have played their way out of the Autumn squad. They weren't terrible but they certainly didnt step up either.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby dropkick » June 24th, 2017, 7:54 pm

No player played today badly but the heads down, one out runner, narrow rugby isn't going to trouble many defences.


Overall some players performed well and moved up the pecking order while for others it was a missed opportunity. The big winners (not including the established players like Healy, Earls, Ringrose etc) were Niall Scannell, Leavy, Conan, James Ryan, John Ryan, Stockdale, McGrath and Marmion. I thought Luke Marshall played very well today.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby hugonaut » June 24th, 2017, 8:46 pm

Dave Cahill wrote: The opposition was so weak I don't know it this tour achieved anything really.


Disagree. Firstly, it was invaluable just to visit and play in Japan, where we'll be playing in a World Cup in two years' time. Familiarising themselves with things like the stadia, the playing surfaces, the general climate, matchday protocol [for example, getting to the stadium on time!] is all exceptionally useful experience.

Secondly, we'll actually be playing Japan in our group, so going head-to-head with their players and seeing how they play on the ground, how they're coached, how they react, is eminently useful too.

Thirdly, bringing in young, talented players [James Ryan, Stockdale, Porter, Luke McGrath, Leavy, Conan, Rory Scannell, Treadwell] who have had little or no interaction with the national coaching set up and having them in camp for a solid 3+ weeks is a great investment. Even guys who didn't get a start [like Dave Heffernan and Rory O'Loughlin] have been given a serious degree of exposure to the standards expected of them, and that should in turn raise their own personal standards.

Granted, we could have toured somewhere else with the same squad, but we would have missed out on all the World Cup specific elements of preparation. In any case, Japan are ranked 11th in the world at the moment – ahead of Georgia, Tonga, Samoa and Italy.

So when you package all that up as a single tour, I think it has been really worthwhile.
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