Tour to Japan

[mildlyinterested]

Savea is a far better athlete than JOD.

[leinsterforever]

Savea is a far better athlete than JOD.

He's nimbler and more skilful. Not sure about more athletic. JOD is very fast.

Whether or not he makes the most of himself will depend on whether he plays to his strengths. There's a place for a pacy, rangy eight - like Warren Whiteley at the Lions. Can't help but feel that he's destined to fail if he tries to mimic Stander though

[mildlyinterested]

Savea is a far better athlete than JOD.

He's nimbler and more skilful. Not sure about more athletic. JOD is very fast.

Whether or not he makes the most of himself will depend on whether he plays to his strengths. There's a place for a pacy, rangy eight - like Warren Whiteley at the Lions. Can't help but feel that he's destined to fail if he tries to mimic Stander though

Ah here is almost certainly more athletic/explosive.

[leinsterforever]

Savea is a far better athlete than JOD.

He's nimbler and more skilful. Not sure about more athletic. JOD is very fast.

Whether or not he makes the most of himself will depend on whether he plays to his strengths. There's a place for a pacy, rangy eight - like Warren Whiteley at the Lions. Can't help but feel that he's destined to fail if he tries to mimic Stander though

Ah here is almost certainly more athletic/explosive.

Maybe he is. I don't have any access to any sorts of tests scores or gym info, whether they can do muscle-ups etc. I'd say a part of Savea looking so dynamic is that he runs at soft shoulders and has v. good footwork so tacklers aren't able to hit him full-force.

Whiteley and Savea have both played 7s, so maybe thats something that O'Donoghue should look into

[CiaranIrl]

I have to say, a very fine and very persuasive article by our very own Hugo aka Demented Mole has me totally rethinking my view of what the Ireland squad should look like for this tour.

[Dave Cahill]

Whatever about the game against the septics, I don't see there being much experimentation at all for the games against Japan, a test series between two Tier One nations.

At least the fixture against the USA means that we won't be made use a Final to try to run some fitness into injured players.

For the first test against Japan, everyone who is supposed to be fit being fit, I'd say the team will be Healy, Cronin, Ryan, Dillane, Toner, Ruddock, vd Flier, Heaslip, Marmion, Jackson, Earls, Marshall, Ringrose, Trimble, Kearney.

[leinsterforever]

I have to say, a very fine and very persuasive article by our very own Hugo aka Demented Mole has me totally rethinking my view of what the Ireland squad should look like for this tour.

I still think they should take one of Holland or Sean O'Brien to develop them into the guy who can cover 6 and lock in a RWC squad. Maybe O'Brien would be a better call, but I think I'd definitely take one of them.

[neiliog93]

Ardie Savea hits way, way more forcefully than JOD when tackling and when carrying, despite weighing less. He's also unbelievably fast, as fast as his brother probably, and elusive. JOD may be up there with Stander or Conan in terms of back row pace in Ireland, but I'd say Savea is still quicker (have seen him skin Super Rugby wings).

[meathman3]

if Kearney and Heaslip are included it will be because Gatland wants them and couldn't select them in initial squad cos of injury. Otherwise expect any player who is normally in Ireland team eg Zebo Earls along with 2 new wings etc

Team for US probably mostly where the new players will get a shot with only those that impress retained for Japan or where there is space due to absent Lions.

[betty swallocks]

Wouldn't surprise if Jake Heenan was called up today.

[Grumpy Old Man]

I'll be very surprised if Jamie travels.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I'm most interested in the wings. With all the rumours about James Ryan and Porter etc, there's nothing about Adam Byrne, Sweetnam etc. They obviously wouldn't be as much of a surprise but I'd have expected to hear something.

[FLIP]

Ireland Squad Summer Tour 2017 - USA & Japan

Forwards
Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht) 6 caps
Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 1 cap
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 67 caps
Dave Heffernan (Connacht/Buccaneers)*
Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 17 caps
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster) 2 caps
Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster) 12 caps
Jack O'Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster) 1 cap
Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster)*
Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster) 13 caps
James Ryan (UCD/Leinster)*
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 6 caps
Niall Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) 4 caps
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 47 caps
James Tracy (UCD/Leinster) 2 caps
Kieran Treadwell (Ballymena/Ulster)*
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster) 7 caps

Backs
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster) 3 caps
Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 1 cap
John Cooney (Connacht)*
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 59 caps
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster) 23 caps
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) 13 caps
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster) 9 caps
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster) 1 cap
Tiernan O'Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht) 3 caps
Rory O'Loughlin (Old Belvedere/Leinster)*
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 8 caps
Rory Scannell (Dolphin/Munster)*
Jacob Stockdale (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)*
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) 33 caps

*Denotes uncapped

[Flash Gordon]

Whatever about the game against the septics, I don't see there being much experimentation at all for the games against Japan, a test series between two Tier One nations.

At least the fixture against the USA means that we won't be made use a Final to try to run some fitness into injured players.

For the first test against Japan, everyone who is supposed to be fit being fit, I'd say the team will be Healy, Cronin, Ryan, Dillane, Toner, Ruddock, vd Flier, Heaslip, Marmion, Jackson, Earls, Marshall, Ringrose, Trimble, Kearney.

I suspect Ringrose will be in New Zealand by then......that aside, we have to look at Byrne and O'Halloran on this tour. O'Halloran in particular is, in my opinion, a better player than the 2017 version of Rob Kearney.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

No Adam Byrne, Sweetnam or Trimble

Massively disagree with that part anyway, haven't looked closely at the rest.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Only three second rows including James Ryan, no Molony. I find that very strange.

[FLIP]

No Adam Byrne, Sweetnam or Trimble

Massively disagree with that part anyway, haven't looked closely at the rest.

No RK or Heaslip either. Is Heaslips injury that severe that there's no chance he'll be the Lions backup?

[CiaranIrl]

Broken down

LH: Healy, Kilcoyne
HK: Scannell, Tracy, Heffernan
TH: Bealham, Porter, Ryan
LK: Ryan, Toner, Treadwell
BS: Ruddock, Leavy
OS: TOD, VDF
N8: Conan, JOD

SH: Cooney, Marmion, McGrath
OH: Carbery, Jackson
IC: Marshall, Scannell
OC: ROL, Ringrose
WG: Earls, Stockdale, Zebo
FB: Conway, TOH

[lummix]

Very light in the second row numbers wise. It's only Treadwell, toner and Ryan. With maybe ruddock covering as well. I think James Ryan will be capped by Ireland before playing for Leinster.

Would have liked to see Byrne and sweetman as well as we are badly short pace on our wings but Joe must think Stockdale is the best bet of the 3 long term

[brenno]

Can't quibble too much with that panel, Sweetnam and Adam Byrne maybe a bit unlucky but Stockdale and Conway have also been good. Think you have to have some experienced wingers like Earls, couldn't take four wingers with just one cap between them (Zebo on tour as a FB I think). And 8 uncapped players, what happened conservative Joe