Tour to Japan

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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby Xanthippe » May 16th, 2017, 7:59 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
dropkick wrote:Stockdale ticks a lot of boxes. Big, fast, solid under the high ball, has a massive left boot, runs great lines, good handling, can play in multiple positions etc. Still a bit raw but all the ingredients are there.


Personally I'd pencil him in to be an Ulster starter next year too. Himself and Adam could be a helluva combo in a couple of years. I know there are others in the mix but just saying.


I love Stockdale - don't understand how he didn't start more often this season but he can be a little bit greedy. I reckon he's cost Ulster several scores with his (seeming) determination not to pass.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby leinsterforever » May 16th, 2017, 9:01 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
leinsterforever wrote:Am I watching the same Stockdale as the rest of you? The guy looks like he could be a superstar


Yeah I'm excited about him too. He definitely has flaws (and I think they're actual flaws as opposed to just getting used to the top level) but he's an incredible talent. Reminds me of a cross between Trimble and Bowe, doesn't have the footballing ability of Bowe but still similar to both of them in many ways.


I wouldn't say he has a lack of footballing ability. I can think of two times this season where he grubbered ahead and collected himself to score
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby simonokeeffe » May 16th, 2017, 9:03 pm

Stockdale is the Mark Viduka of rugby

To adopt a less libellous tone I kind of get the vibe hes gotten by almost on massive natural gifts and talents but needs to apply himself if he wants to fulfill his potential; Joe dissecting him and older boys breaking his balls a bit and being out of a comfort zone could do him a world of good
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby Ruckedtobits » May 16th, 2017, 10:03 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:Stockdale is the Mark Viduka of rugby

To adopt a less libellous tone I kind of get the vibe hes gotten by almost on massive natural gifts and talents but needs to apply himself if he wants to fulfill his potential; Joe dissecting him and older boys breaking his balls a bit and being out of a comfort zone could do him a world of good


+1. And wonderful to see resurrection of Mark Viduka - even as an image.
Seriously though, your analysis is spot on.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby fourthirtythree » May 16th, 2017, 10:33 pm

CiaranIrl wrote: It's hard for me personally to see how Stockdale got in ahead of Byrne and Sweetnam, but I am 100% sure that Byrne and Sweetnam know what they need to do. At a guess, it's a defensive thing.

Amazing that 22 players have fewer than 10 caps, and of those, 8 are uncapped entirely. I'm sure some people will still say how conservative / biased / lacking in youth it is regardless.


Just to join in the chorous of the others here (I'm late to the party it seems) I don't think Stockdale got picked ahead of Byrne and Sweetnam because his defence is better than theirs (which I know isn't what you said but it's kind of a corollary) : it's his higher ceiling. He looks to have a fair bit to work on, sure. Can you imagine the season he would have had if he didn't?

At times he has been spectacular, and a tour like this is a time to bring a guy like that along. Maybe he might have risked him in a different context, but Schmidt does like his players doing the right thing, well
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby Ruckedtobits » May 16th, 2017, 11:03 pm

Some Squad. And I presume that Leinster options for the (hopefully two) remaining matches will thus not include Rob Kearney, Jamie Heaslip or Sean Cronin.

If so, tough on all three.

However, looking at this Tour Party from the other end of the telescope, it's a great vote of confidence in a set of players that Provincial rugby has produced and Joe believes may be capable of playing in the World Cup in two years time. For example, from this small group of players, Ireland could select the following team:

1. Kilcoyne
2. Heffernan
3. Porter
4. Treadwell
5. Ja Ryan
6. Leavy
8. O'Donoghue
7. JVdF
9. Cooney
10. Carbery
11. Stockdale
12. Scannell
13. O'Loughlin
14. Conway
15. O'Halloran

From my count, that amounts to a total of 27 caps up front and 7 caps in that backline. (And I for one would be fascinated to see that team represent Ireland at some point.)

Although it's not going to happen, it marks an extraordinary emergence of very young Irish players, physically capable of playing to international standard, at very young ages.

This development of young(er) Irish international players was one of Nucifora's stated objectives when he first reviewed the Irish Rugby scene. A very quick transition, almost exactly three years, to move the Irish mountain of tradition.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby Oldschool » May 17th, 2017, 1:36 am

Ruckedtobits wrote:Some Squad. And I presume that Leinster options for the (hopefully two) remaining matches will thus not include Rob Kearney, Jamie Heaslip or Sean Cronin.

If so, tough on all three.

However, looking at this Tour Party from the other end of the telescope, it's a great vote of confidence in a set of players that Provincial rugby has produced and Joe believes may be capable of playing in the World Cup in two years time. For example, from this small group of players, Ireland could select the following team:

1. Kilcoyne
2. Heffernan
3. Porter
4. Treadwell
5. Ja Ryan
6. Leavy
8. O'Donoghue
7. JVdF
9. Cooney
10. Carbery
11. Stockdale
12. Scannell
13. O'Loughlin
14. Conway
15. O'Halloran

From my count, that amounts to a total of 27 caps up front and 7 caps in that backline. (And I for one would be fascinated to see that team represent Ireland at some point.)

Although it's not going to happen, it marks an extraordinary emergence of very young Irish players, physically capable of playing to international standard, at very young ages.

This development of young(er) Irish international players was one of Nucifora's stated objectives when he first reviewed the Irish Rugby scene. A very quick transition, almost exactly three years, to move the Irish mountain of tradition.

Well worth repeating in the 'Nucifora' thread.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby BlueBlue » May 17th, 2017, 9:45 am

very exciting squad
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » May 17th, 2017, 11:14 am

leinsterforever wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
leinsterforever wrote:Am I watching the same Stockdale as the rest of you? The guy looks like he could be a superstar


Yeah I'm excited about him too. He definitely has flaws (and I think they're actual flaws as opposed to just getting used to the top level) but he's an incredible talent. Reminds me of a cross between Trimble and Bowe, doesn't have the footballing ability of Bowe but still similar to both of them in many ways.


I wouldn't say he has a lack of footballing ability. I can think of two times this season where he grubbered ahead and collected himself to score


It's a funny one, I actually think Stockdale is quite skilful but then I don't trust him with the basics. I'd back him to execute a difficult offload more than a simple ten metre pass or catching a tricky restart. I feel he can look a bit awkward at times but then come up with some magic.

I know he's partly in the squad due to versatility but I really hope that he sticks to one position over the next while, left wing being the one I'd pick.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby ronk » May 17th, 2017, 8:07 pm

Oldschool wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:Some Squad. And I presume that Leinster options for the (hopefully two) remaining matches will thus not include Rob Kearney, Jamie Heaslip or Sean Cronin.

If so, tough on all three.

However, looking at this Tour Party from the other end of the telescope, it's a great vote of confidence in a set of players that Provincial rugby has produced and Joe believes may be capable of playing in the World Cup in two years time. For example, from this small group of players, Ireland could select the following team:

1. Kilcoyne
2. Heffernan
3. Porter
4. Treadwell
5. Ja Ryan
6. Leavy
8. O'Donoghue
7. JVdF
9. Cooney
10. Carbery
11. Stockdale
12. Scannell
13. O'Loughlin
14. Conway
15. O'Halloran

From my count, that amounts to a total of 27 caps up front and 7 caps in that backline. (And I for one would be fascinated to see that team represent Ireland at some point.)

Although it's not going to happen, it marks an extraordinary emergence of very young Irish players, physically capable of playing to international standard, at very young ages.

This development of young(er) Irish international players was one of Nucifora's stated objectives when he first reviewed the Irish Rugby scene. A very quick transition, almost exactly three years, to move the Irish mountain of tradition.

Well worth repeating in the 'Nucifora' thread.



Squads during Lions tours are always going to be the best chance every 4 years to get caps. Is this really so different?

Even in 2013 the situation with changing coaches was a natural time to be conservative.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby Oldschool » May 18th, 2017, 4:32 pm

ronk wrote:
Oldschool wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:Some Squad. And I presume that Leinster options for the (hopefully two) remaining matches will thus not include Rob Kearney, Jamie Heaslip or Sean Cronin.

If so, tough on all three.

However, looking at this Tour Party from the other end of the telescope, it's a great vote of confidence in a set of players that Provincial rugby has produced and Joe believes may be capable of playing in the World Cup in two years time. For example, from this small group of players, Ireland could select the following team:

1. Kilcoyne
2. Heffernan
3. Porter
4. Treadwell
5. Ja Ryan
6. Leavy
8. O'Donoghue
7. JVdF
9. Cooney
10. Carbery
11. Stockdale
12. Scannell
13. O'Loughlin
14. Conway
15. O'Halloran

From my count, that amounts to a total of 27 caps up front and 7 caps in that backline. (And I for one would be fascinated to see that team represent Ireland at some point.)

Although it's not going to happen, it marks an extraordinary emergence of very young Irish players, physically capable of playing to international standard, at very young ages.

This development of young(er) Irish international players was one of Nucifora's stated objectives when he first reviewed the Irish Rugby scene. A very quick transition, almost exactly three years, to move the Irish mountain of tradition.

Well worth repeating in the 'Nucifora' thread.



Squads during Lions tours are always going to be the best chance every 4 years to get caps. Is this really so different?

Even in 2013 the situation with changing coaches was a natural time to be conservative.

Doubt our depth would have been as good if MOC was left to his own devices.
Nucifora has also gradually put pressure on the provinces to reduce NIQ players although this has been bit patchy and is still a work in progress and also done with an eye on the increase to a 5 year term for projects.
Nucifora has made taking the easy (usually more expensive option) less easy.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby neiliog93 » May 18th, 2017, 7:54 pm

Looking at that list, Nucifora can only take credit for Carbery getting game time, by not allowing Leinster to sign another Shaun Berne type of out-half after Madigan left.

All of the others have come through even with NIQ in their positions (Heffernan, Treadwell, Stockdale, Scannell) , or played a particular position where their province didn't need foreign signings/the individual was already at the level where their province recruiting a foreign player in their positions was unlikely (Kilcoyne, Leavy, O'Donoghue, VDF, Cooney, O'Loughlin, Conway, O'Halloran).

We can't include James Ryan or Porter in considerations as the former hasn't played for Leinster and the latter has two caps.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby Aird » May 20th, 2017, 5:04 pm

Nucifora if he was doing his job as he alleges would not have allowed Leinster to resign Isa nor extend his contract and allow him to block development of I Q players. As for Lienster signing an NIQ No.9 as a project player who seems to worse than the players already available in Ireland.
Don't forget these NIQ players are allegedly to be viewed on a 4 provinces basis now or does that not apply to Leinster.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby ronk » May 21st, 2017, 12:09 am

I'm confident that getting rid of Nacewa would add zero new players to the main Irish squads and might have a negative effect.

JGP was signed as a solid 2nd choice 9 and that's what he's been, especially because of the improving form of McGrath as a the season has gone on. Either way he was needed.

It's hard to know how much of all that is Nucifora because so much of his role is strategy and structures, but he did have a role in Madigan, Moore and Te'o all guys who in line to be important squad members up to the World Cup and beyond
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby cormac » May 22nd, 2017, 4:06 pm

Quinn Roux has been added to the squad
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby simonokeeffe » May 22nd, 2017, 4:08 pm

cormac wrote:Quinn Roux has been added to the squad


bah there goes the there being no project players on the tour

guess Dillane wasn't fit enough
When he spreads his legs like that youd need dynamite or the Highland Light Infantry to shift him.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby jimbobjoe » May 24th, 2017, 11:48 am

Anyone know who's televising the tour?
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby cormac » May 24th, 2017, 12:55 pm

jimbobjoe wrote:Anyone know who's televising the tour?


Pretty sure it's SKY
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby jimbobjoe » May 24th, 2017, 1:21 pm

cormac wrote:
jimbobjoe wrote:Anyone know who's televising the tour?


Pretty sure it's SKY


That's what I was hoping for (as I'm in the UK) but no mention of it on their rugby broadcast schedule.
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Re: Tour to Japan

Postby R-Dog » May 24th, 2017, 1:39 pm

Cant for the life of me understand the broadcast time for these games. Match kicks off at 6 am Irish time or +9 Hours 3PM Tokyo time.

Given the WC TV audience is For a majority based near GMT (6 Nations/SA) should they not be trying to run these games at a TV suitable time.
I realise the Lions are also playing but surely the Irish game should be after it say 11am GMT or 8PM Japanese time.

Are we destined to watch the 2019 WC in the Early Houses?
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