Ireland 2017-18

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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby fourthirtythree » October 27th, 2017, 11:40 am

I honestly think that D Kearney and Farrell are just there for training and are not in danger of playing a game. It does happen with the extended squads in the Autumn. Scannell is a far superior player to Farrell but maybe Schmidt wants a big lump there for training against. Dave he knows will do exactly what he's told, he's an intelligent footballer just not physically a quality international.

O'Halloran is worrying alright, and perhaps Cronin.
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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby Experimental » October 27th, 2017, 12:52 pm

I had the same thoughts as fourthirtythree, and would agree that the TOH exclusion is worrying, Cronin's throwing has been a bit hit and miss lately, I think Joe is giving him a chance to improve that while taking a look at other players, Id expect to see cronin back in some capacity for the 6n tho once his darts are a bit better
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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby matt » October 27th, 2017, 2:30 pm

Dundalk 1 wrote:On Zebo I have never heard such shite spouted by his various supporters
He scored 9 tries for Ireland in 35 games
He scored the grand total of 1 try in 6 nations or World Cup
His only other try of note was walking over the All Black line in Chicago
He is a good player but not fantastic and certainly not irreplaceable
The really sad part about today was the dropping of Tommy Bowe
Clearly the right decision given his age and form but he scored 30 tries for Ireland and in his time was irreplaceable
One of our best wingers
Up there with Shaggy and Hickie


I would of toned it down slightly but agree with most of this especially "He is a good player but not fantastic and certainly not irreplaceable". 1 try in 6 nations (2013 v Wales) or WC is indeed telling.

There seems to be a bit of a cult around "Zeebs" but he is nowhere near as quick or good as Keith Earls and certainly not as good as Bowe, Hickie or Horgan were. If reports that 4 French clubs (Racing, Lyon, Pau & one other) are willing to pay up to E750k pa are true then it's madness when you could get Piutau for the same money.
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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby ronk » October 27th, 2017, 3:04 pm

Joe likes to call players into the squad so he can work with them and send them away with changes to focus on and to see how they adapt.

Farrell is getting a chance to impress.
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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby ronk » October 27th, 2017, 3:11 pm

Zebo would be in the squad and probably even starting, but he’s not indispensable and therefore he’s been dispensed with.

He may get back in for the 6N depending on injuries. Joe had a knack for getting the best out of Dave Kearney and I hope he does.
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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » October 27th, 2017, 4:13 pm

I could understand dropping Zebo if we were closer to the WC, but it's not like we win the 6N every year and if having him in our squad gives us a better chance of that then I'd keep him in. I think it's unfair given that Sexton was allowed to keep playing too. I won't mind it as much when Zebo actually leaves, but the guy is still in the country.
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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby Dave Cahill » October 27th, 2017, 4:24 pm

Thats assuming of course that Zebo is being dropped because he is going to France and not because he has done (or not done) something to p1$$ off Joe - it wouldn't be the first time that he's been dropped after all.
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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » October 27th, 2017, 4:28 pm

Anything's possible, but that's an odd thing to jump to given the news this week.
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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby Dave Cahill » October 27th, 2017, 4:37 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Anything's possible, but that's an odd thing to jump to given the news this week.


I don't think its that odd, if Zebo had signed back up with the Union he was just as likely to be dropped I reckon. Joe just doesn't pick him if he has other options.
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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » October 27th, 2017, 4:48 pm

Which of course ignores the fact that he's played loads over the last couple of years and we've since lost Luke Fitz to retirement, Payne is injured, Trimble and Bowe are past it, we've a guy in the squad who was dropped by Leinster last weekend...it's nuts Dave. I could get on board with you saying that he's not a favourite of Joe's and maybe even that he actively wants to replace him...but that still doesn't mean that he'd be dropped entirely from a squad with so many back three players.
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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby Dave Cahill » October 27th, 2017, 4:58 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Which of course ignores the fact that he's played loads over the last couple of years and we've since lost Luke Fitz to retirement, Payne is injured, Trimble and Bowe are past it, we've a guy in the squad who was dropped by Leinster last weekend...it's nuts Dave. I could get on board with you saying that he's not a favourite of Joe's and maybe even that he actively wants to replace him...but that still doesn't mean that he'd be dropped entirely from a squad with so many back three players.


You've just explained why he's played loads. Trimble, Kearneys, Bowe, Luke and Earls have all suffered through injury and the passing of time which has left Joe with no option. Now he has an option, so he has been dropped. Its like the game against Scotland two years go writ large. As soon as there were any other option, that option has been taken.
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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby paddyor » October 27th, 2017, 4:59 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Which of course ignores the fact that he's played loads over the last couple of years and we've since lost Luke Fitz to retirement, Payne is injured, Trimble and Bowe are past it, we've a guy in the squad who was dropped by Leinster last weekend...it's nuts Dave. I could get on board with you saying that he's not a favourite of Joe's and maybe even that he actively wants to replace him...but that still doesn't mean that he'd be dropped entirely from a squad with so many back three players.

This is what I come back to. We do need him, our options in the back 3 aren't great. It's a change of tack as well in terms of selecting players. Ryan was still selected when he announced he was leaving.

It'll be Rob & Earls + AN other plus Bench option. My guess/hope is Stockdale and Conway. I'd have Zebo ahead of the other 3.
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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby simonokeeffe » October 27th, 2017, 5:05 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I could understand dropping Zebo if we were closer to the WC, but it's not like we win the 6N every year and if having him in our squad gives us a better chance of that then I'd keep him in. I think it's unfair given that Sexton was allowed to keep playing too. I won't mind it as much when Zebo actually leaves, but the guy is still in the country.


dropping him now is a possible win win
he doesnt play well and we wasted RWC development time on him instead of Stockdale or Carberry
he does play well and it increases pressure/hassle on Schmidt/Nucifora to make an exception for him, maybe isn't the best for the dressing room
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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » October 27th, 2017, 5:12 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Which of course ignores the fact that he's played loads over the last couple of years and we've since lost Luke Fitz to retirement, Payne is injured, Trimble and Bowe are past it, we've a guy in the squad who was dropped by Leinster last weekend...it's nuts Dave. I could get on board with you saying that he's not a favourite of Joe's and maybe even that he actively wants to replace him...but that still doesn't mean that he'd be dropped entirely from a squad with so many back three players.


You've just explained why he's played loads. Trimble, Kearneys, Bowe, Luke and Earls have all suffered through injury and the passing of time which has left Joe with no option. Now he has an option, so he has been dropped. Its like the game against Scotland two years go writ large. As soon as there were any other option, that option has been taken.


Fitzgerald was fit before that Scotland game and not picked while Zebo was...please stop wumming with this nonsense.
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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » October 27th, 2017, 5:14 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I could understand dropping Zebo if we were closer to the WC, but it's not like we win the 6N every year and if having him in our squad gives us a better chance of that then I'd keep him in. I think it's unfair given that Sexton was allowed to keep playing too. I won't mind it as much when Zebo actually leaves, but the guy is still in the country.


dropping him now is a possible win win
he doesnt play well and we wasted RWC development time on him instead of Stockdale or Carberry
he does play well and it increases pressure/hassle on Schmidt/Nucifora to make an exception for him, maybe isn't the best for the dressing room


Or a lose lose.

I'm not doubting that there's logic behind the decision, it's just not a logic I agree with.
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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby fourthirtythree » October 27th, 2017, 5:16 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I think it's unfair given that Sexton was allowed to keep playing too.


I don't see how that is relevant to anything. Sexton claims the "rule" wasn't in place then but they have been told it is now. Secondly that was the past. Thirdly would it then be "fair" if everyone was injured and Zebo was needed and he got recalled? Who cares? We'd need him and I would really hope he was recalled.

We had only one outhalf capable of playing to international standard at the time. The IRFU made a booboo by not admitting to themselves that the team was built around him for the next few years and instead refusing to negotiate. I think Zebo is great, he's in fantastic form, I'd pick him as full back ahead of O'Halloran, Carberry, Kearney etc. right now, but fair isn't in it. We might "want" him, but don't "need" him.

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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby Dave Cahill » October 27th, 2017, 5:20 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Which of course ignores the fact that he's played loads over the last couple of years and we've since lost Luke Fitz to retirement, Payne is injured, Trimble and Bowe are past it, we've a guy in the squad who was dropped by Leinster last weekend...it's nuts Dave. I could get on board with you saying that he's not a favourite of Joe's and maybe even that he actively wants to replace him...but that still doesn't mean that he'd be dropped entirely from a squad with so many back three players.


You've just explained why he's played loads. Trimble, Kearneys, Bowe, Luke and Earls have all suffered through injury and the passing of time which has left Joe with no option. Now he has an option, so he has been dropped. Its like the game against Scotland two years go writ large. As soon as there were any other option, that option has been taken.


Fitzgerald was fit before that Scotland game and not picked while Zebo was...please stop wumming with this nonsense.


The ad hominem attack is your standard tactic when your cant is pulled up alright.

The fact remains, as much as you would like to deny it, that Zebo is not a player that Joe Schmidt trusts and his dropping is entirely expected regardless of his contractual situation.
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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » October 27th, 2017, 5:24 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I think it's unfair given that Sexton was allowed to keep playing too.


I don't see how that is relevant to anything. Sexton claims the "rule" wasn't in place then but they have been told it is now. Secondly that was the past. Thirdly would it then be "fair" if everyone was injured and Zebo was needed and he got recalled? Who cares? We'd need him and I would really hope he was recalled.

We had only one outhalf capable of playing to international standard at the time. The IRFU made a booboo by not admitting to themselves that the team was built around him for the next few years and instead refusing to negotiate. I think Zebo is great, he's in fantastic form, I'd pick him as full back ahead of O'Halloran, Carberry, Kearney etc. right now, but fair isn't in it. We might "want" him, but don't "need" him.

Nothing's fair in love and war (and sport).


Two things...

1) He's still playing in Ireland. I'm not talking about when he actually goes to France, hence why I think it's excessive, I never claimed to be comparing like with like.
2) That's kind of an odd post just because I feel sorry for the guy for being dropped in these circumstances.
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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby matt » October 27th, 2017, 5:55 pm

https://youtu.be/HcVqA0RVkwY

George Hook on Rugby Wrap Up does not believe Zebo is going to France.
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Re: Ireland 2017-18

Postby fourthirtythree » October 27th, 2017, 7:26 pm

Excuse not quoting as it's a pain on the phone.

1 I agree with you - but a better comparison would be Madigan- Sexton was a different kettle of fish. I'd play Zeno for the big matches.

2 I do too. I feel sorry for his team mates who have said they hey want him playing. I feel sorry for his fans.

But the only way unfairness could come into this is if he was told that h could play for Ireland and then they changed it behind his back.

Mostly I feel sorry for his young fans. He knew what he was doing and his teammates are pros too. Racing are going to s lol a bunch of jerseys in Ireland I guess.
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