Ireland u20 2017-2018

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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby mildlyinterested » June 14th, 2018, 1:42 pm

Probably not based on current performance levels..

Nucifora overlooked australia's u20 team results took a nosedive and now has done the same with ireland.
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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby dropkick » June 15th, 2018, 4:41 pm

Hopefully creating the regional talent coaches will start to bare fruit in the coming years.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/37559.php#.WyPcdo6n-M8
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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby Dave Cahill » June 15th, 2018, 5:22 pm

dropkick wrote:Hopefully creating the regional talent coaches will start to bare fruit in the coming years.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/37559.php#.WyPcdo6n-M8


Thats a two year old story?
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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby ronk » June 15th, 2018, 5:35 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
dropkick wrote:Hopefully creating the regional talent coaches will start to bare fruit in the coming years.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/37559.php#.WyPcdo6n-M8


Thats a two year old story?


They're usually further behind than that.
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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby dropkick » June 15th, 2018, 5:56 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
dropkick wrote:Hopefully creating the regional talent coaches will start to bare fruit in the coming years.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/37559.php#.WyPcdo6n-M8


Thats a two year old story?



Yeah it usually takes a while for changes to take effect thats why I posted that.
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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby Dave Cahill » June 15th, 2018, 8:26 pm

Ah, je comprends
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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby dropkick » June 15th, 2018, 9:00 pm

Dan Brennan gave an interview on the 42.ie. It was interesting to hear how the French train.

“They take all of the best guys from these schools and bring them to Paris. That was for a year. That was a tough year because you left at 4am on the Monday on the plane, you flew to Paris, you train all week, you flew on the Friday at around 3pm and played on the weekend. That was all year. I was 16.”
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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby ronk » June 15th, 2018, 9:33 pm

dropkick wrote:Dan Brennan gave an interview on the 42.ie. It was interesting to hear how the French train.

“They take all of the best guys from these schools and bring them to Paris. That was for a year. That was a tough year because you left at 4am on the Monday on the plane, you flew to Paris, you train all week, you flew on the Friday at around 3pm and played on the weekend. That was all year. I was 16.”


That’s rough. Not sure it would fly here for many reasons.
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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby Ruckedtobits » June 16th, 2018, 4:10 pm

dropkick wrote:Dan Brennan gave an interview on the 42.ie. It was interesting to hear how the French train.

“They take all of the best guys from these schools and bring them to Paris. That was for a year. That was a tough year because you left at 4am on the Monday on the plane, you flew to Paris, you train all week, you flew on the Friday at around 3pm and played on the weekend. That was all year. I was 16.”


There is no Schools Rugby in France and it is a huge country with U.16 rugby getting very different priority in different parts from the various Clubs. This system facilitates the development of A National Squad with a defined standard. Hark work but big kudos.
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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby dropkick » June 16th, 2018, 4:42 pm

IRELAND UNDER-20 Team & Replacements (v Japan Under-20s, 2018 World Rugby U-20 Championship - 11th-12th Place Play-Off, Stade de la Méditerranée, Béziers, Sunday, June 17, kick-off 11am local time/10am Irish time):

15. Michael Lowry (Banbridge/Ulster) *
14. James Hume (Banbridge/Ulster)
13. Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
12. Peter Sylvester (UCC/Munster)
11. Tommy O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
10. Harry Byrne (UCD/Leinster)
9. Jonny Stewart (Queen's University/Ulster)
1. Jordan Duggan (Naas/Leinster)
2. Dan Sheehan (Dublin University/Leinster)
3. Jack Aungier (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
4. Cormac Daly (Clontarf/Leinster)
5. Jack Dunne (Dublin University/Leinster)
6. Jack Daly (Garryowen/Munster)
7. Matthew Agnew (Ballymena/Ulster)
8. Caelan Doris (St. Mary's College/Leinster) (capt)

Replacements:

16. Dylan Tierney (Corinthians/Connacht) *
17. Jakub Wojtkowicz (Sligo/Connacht)
18. Joe Byrne (Dublin University/Leinster)
19. Charlie Ryan (UCD/Leinster)
20. Joe Dunleavy (Malone/Ulster)
21. Hugh O'Sullivan (Clontarf/Leinster)
22. Conor Dean (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
23. Tom Roche (Lansdowne/Leinster)

* Denotes uncapped player at this level
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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby Lar » June 17th, 2018, 11:52 am

Ireland beat Japan 39-33.

Sounds like a tense affair. But a positive end to a pretty poor tournament.
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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby wixfjord » June 17th, 2018, 12:45 pm

Doris immense again. He's some specimen.

Not a tournament to remember though.
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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby CiaranIrl » June 17th, 2018, 12:47 pm

Lar wrote:Ireland beat Japan 39-33.

Sounds like a tense affair. But a positive end to a pretty poor tournament.


Not sure scraping past Japan is a positive ending, but at least next year's cohort don't have to suffer for this year's failing.
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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby Lar » June 17th, 2018, 1:08 pm

Well it’s more positive than being relegated to the Trophy competition.
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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby thecomedian » June 17th, 2018, 1:48 pm

Dorris was good, the fullback Lowry had a great game. The scrum half had a good game.
I thought Byrne was ok but for a few mistakes in him.


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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby hugonaut » June 17th, 2018, 2:22 pm

Haven't seen any of this year's tournament as I don't have the Eir Sports channel, but to be frank it seems that all I've missed out on is pulling my hair out.

Finishing 11th is abject. I'm only familiar with the Leinster players in anything more than passing, but a number of these guys are good players [Aungier, Dunne, Daly, Harry Byrne], and some of them are very, very good – Doris and Tommy O'Brien are outstanding prospects and can't miss pros.

While losing to South Africa and France doesn't do anything positive for me, it doesn't p*ss me off that much either. But losing to Scotland and Georgia and scraping past Japan is pathetic. I've watched Noel McNamara-coached Leinster Schools sides and they played some great rugby, so I'm surprised and disappointed that he's done such a bad job as head of the U20s.

I firmly believe that Mike Ruddock was the best coach the 20s ever had ... and by a mile. It's obvious that the set-up around 2010-14 was reliable, productive and competitive. The IRFU need to examine what the constituent parts were of that – U20s interpro championship, experienced head coach, continuity of coaching – and move back towards that, because it was just way better and more efficient than the p*ss poor stuff that has been served up in three of the last four years.

There's been some good results in the Sevens competition, but the U20s are going backwards at a rate of knots. One is a garnish, the other an essential. Time to refocus.
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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby cormac » June 17th, 2018, 2:30 pm

From the bits of the 6N and JWC that I saw their biggest problem was in defence.
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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby scentofgunpowder » June 17th, 2018, 3:03 pm

hugonaut wrote:Haven't seen any of this year's tournament as I don't have the Eir Sports channel, but to be frank it seems that all I've missed out on is pulling my hair out.

Finishing 11th is abject. I'm only familiar with the Leinster players in anything more than passing, but a number of these guys are good players [Aungier, Dunne, Daly, Harry Byrne], and some of them are very, very good – Doris and Tommy O'Brien are outstanding prospects and can't miss pros.

While losing to South Africa and France doesn't do anything positive for me, it doesn't p*ss me off that much either. But losing to Scotland and Georgia and scraping past Japan is pathetic. I've watched Noel McNamara-coached Leinster Schools sides and they played some great rugby, so I'm surprised and disappointed that he's done such a bad job as head of the U20s.

I firmly believe that Mike Ruddock was the best coach the 20s ever had ... and by a mile. It's obvious that the set-up around 2010-14 was reliable, productive and competitive. The IRFU need to examine what the constituent parts were of that – U20s interpro championship, experienced head coach, continuity of coaching – and move back towards that, because it was just way better and more efficient than the p*ss poor stuff that has been served up in three of the last four years.

There's been some good results in the Sevens competition, but the U20s are going backwards at a rate of knots. One is a garnish, the other an essential. Time to refocus.


The two years Carolan spent trying to implement Matt O'Connor style "heads up rugby" didn't help. I'm yet to be convinced any Irish team can play that style effectively (as seen with Connacht this year), never mind a team of teenagers with limited training time together. I think the JWC final run in 2016, imo mainly attributable to having a squad with several generational talents and coming up against the worst team I've ever seen in All Blacks jerseys, really deflected attention away from how turgid his reign was.
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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby Dave Cahill » June 17th, 2018, 4:25 pm

hugonaut wrote:Haven't seen any of this year's tournament as I don't have the Eir Sports channel, but to be frank it seems that all I've missed out on is pulling my hair out.

Finishing 11th is abject. I'm only familiar with the Leinster players in anything more than passing, but a number of these guys are good players [Aungier, Dunne, Daly, Harry Byrne], and some of them are very, very good – Doris and Tommy O'Brien are outstanding prospects and can't miss pros.

While losing to South Africa and France doesn't do anything positive for me, it doesn't p*ss me off that much either. But losing to Scotland and Georgia and scraping past Japan is pathetic. I've watched Noel McNamara-coached Leinster Schools sides and they played some great rugby, so I'm surprised and disappointed that he's done such a bad job as head of the U20s.

I firmly believe that Mike Ruddock was the best coach the 20s ever had ... and by a mile. It's obvious that the set-up around 2010-14 was reliable, productive and competitive. The IRFU need to examine what the constituent parts were of that – U20s interpro championship, experienced head coach, continuity of coaching – and move back towards that, because it was just way better and more efficient than the p*ss poor stuff that has been served up in three of the last four years.

There's been some good results in the Sevens competition, but the U20s are going backwards at a rate of knots. One is a garnish, the other an essential. Time to refocus.


I said it previously, but it doesn't help a coach, no matter how good he is, if he is hobbled by poor or inexperienced assistant/unit coaches. The u20s should be a significant part of the wider national team structure and not a sinecure for good doggies or an internship for guys starting out on their professional coaching career.

Just another failure for the Performance Director.
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Re: Ireland u20 2017-2018

Postby ronk » June 17th, 2018, 4:44 pm

If it's a good coach who has developed players but had an off tournament then you learn and move on.

There are good players, injuries and mixed abilities. The nature of tournaments like this is that they can go pear shaped.

I'm eir less so don't get to judge too much. I hope lessons are learnt either way.
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