Ireland v South Africa AI 2017.

[simonokeeffe]

Have to agree with Ronk there

How does Jantjes cope with large Paddynesians running at him in super rugby or do they hide him out of the way?

[paddyor]

Yeah but he's still better than Aki. I almost went for Kriel ahead of Henshaw, but the former's weaknesses in defence went against him. I know Henshaw has a few fanboys on here, but Kriel is a more dangerous attacking centre.

I think that Stockdale's size and strength could overpower Lleyds, especially if he builds up a head of steam.

Many Saffas aren't fond of Lleyds, think he's done little since the behind the back pass.

[Morf]

Yeah but he's still better than Aki. I almost went for Kriel ahead of Henshaw, but the former's weaknesses in defence went against him. I know Henshaw has a few fanboys on here, but Kriel is a more dangerous attacking centre.

I think that Stockdale's size and strength could overpower Lleyds, especially if he builds up a head of steam.

Many Saffas aren't fond of Lleyds, think he's done little since the behind the back pass.

Strikes me as a guy with a dry-track highlight reel and a lot of very mixed days in wetter or windier conditions.

Not having seen a huge amount of him it's a quite ill-informed opinion.

[hugonaut]

Big show of faith in James Ryan

Once the squad was picked he was up against Dillane and Treadwell. He wasn’t giving up that much in age or experience.

Out of the squad it was really only Holland and Molony as more experienced options. Beirne would be a tough call.

There’s a gaping age gap in the Irish lock depth chart.

Sine POC (38 years old) there has been Toner, Donnacha Ryan and Henderson (25) as first choice locks. Theres a 13 year gap between POC and Henderson so in that 13 years we produced Donn Ryan and Toner as international standard locks! There might be one or two others that I'm not thinking of but its a poor number of locks.

There seems to be more coming through these days. Ryan, Dillane and Treadwell are very young yet and there are others waiting in the wings like Cillian Gallagher, Wycherley etc who could be good enough. Beirne is another man who could feature.

Big glut of locks around 1978-79: Mick O'Driscoll, Donncha O' Callaghan, Paul O'Connell, Bob Casey, Leo Cullen have 260+ caps between them. Quite bizarre circumstance.

[mildlyinterested]

Big glut of locks around 1978-79: Mick O'Driscoll, Donncha O' Callaghan, Paul O'Connell, Bob Casey, Leo Cullen have 260+ caps between them. Quite bizarre circumstance.

The Fabian Pelous fund wasn't needed in the end.

[hugonaut]

Big glut of locks around 1978-79: Mick O'Driscoll, Donncha O' Callaghan, Paul O'Connell, Bob Casey, Leo Cullen have 260+ caps between them. Quite bizarre circumstance.

The Fabian Pelous fund wasn't needed in the end.

Thank f*ck for Mr and Mrs Ryan!

[TerenureJim]

Big glut of locks around 1978-79: Mick O'Driscoll, Donncha O' Callaghan, Paul O'Connell, Bob Casey, Leo Cullen have 260+ caps between them. Quite bizarre circumstance.

The Fabian Pelous fund wasn't needed in the end.

Thank f*ck for Mr and Mrs Ryan!

Does it not go back to the "we have a serious problem at tight head if John Hayes in injured" EOS & DK untouchables approach where no one else was developed and players amassed huge caps including against Samoa etc into their 30's when other overlooked lads should have been getting experience..... same story different position

[mildlyinterested]

Big glut of locks around 1978-79: Mick O'Driscoll, Donncha O' Callaghan, Paul O'Connell, Bob Casey, Leo Cullen have 260+ caps between them. Quite bizarre circumstance.

The Fabian Pelous fund wasn't needed in the end.

Thank f*ck for Mr and Mrs Ryan!

And St. Michaels College.

[Dexter]

Is J McGrath injured?

[neill_m]

Is J McGrath injured?

Yes, happened in training apparently.

[mildlyinterested]

Is J McGrath injured?

Yes, happened in training apparently.

he is healthy was at captains run today, sat out training last week.. but trained this week.. he has been dropped essentially

[neill_m]

Is J McGrath injured?

Yes, happened in training apparently.

he is healthy was at captains run today, sat out training last week.. but trained this week.. he has been dropped essentially

Only going by the press reports......

[suisse]

Don't think Kearney should be in the team, but predictably he is on the receiving end of most of the abuse. Absolutely no analysis whatsoever of POM's form. Anyone brave enough to question his place in the team is shot down as "a clown" or a "joke." I think a lot of this has to do with the mainstream media's inability or unwillingness to use stats. If we laid out POM's season in numbers, there would be very little debate. But we're left with "leadership" and "passion" now.

[paddyor]

Don't think Kearney should be in the team, but predictably he is on the receiving end of most of the abuse. Absolutely no analysis whatsoever of POM's form. Anyone brave enough to question his place in the team is shot down as "a clown" or a "joke." I think a lot of this has to do with the mainstream media's inability or unwillingness to use stats. If we laid out POM's season in numbers, there would be very little debate. But we're left with "leadership" and "passion" now.

I bought the Ultimate Rugby subscription. Will report back later when i get a chance.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Don't think Kearney should be in the team, but predictably he is on the receiving end of most of the abuse. Absolutely no analysis whatsoever of POM's form. Anyone brave enough to question his place in the team is shot down as "a clown" or a "joke." I think a lot of this has to do with the mainstream media's inability or unwillingness to use stats. If we laid out POM's season in numbers, there would be very little debate. But we're left with "leadership" and "passion" now.

I fully agree that POM is in poor form, but what you've done there is not use stats and then slagged off his supporters for going back to the leadership and passion arguments, which is just as bad as what you're arguing against and keeps the whole nonsense going.

[Oldschool]

Well now that we've had the Satan (Kearney) v Devil (POM) dialogue what will our tactics be.
Will we go for them in scrum for example.
What are SA's strengths and where will they be attacking us.
What is the weather forecast and how will it impact on the two teams.

[fourthirtythree]

Don't think Kearney should be in the team, but predictably he is on the receiving end of most of the abuse. Absolutely no analysis whatsoever of POM's form. Anyone brave enough to question his place in the team is shot down as "a clown" or a "joke." I think a lot of this has to do with the mainstream media's inability or unwillingness to use stats. If we laid out POM's season in numbers, there would be very little debate. But we're left with "leadership" and "passion" now.

I fully agree that POM is in poor form, but what you've done there is not use stats and then slagged off his supporters for going back to the leadership and passion arguments, which is just as bad as what you're arguing against and keeps the whole nonsense going.

That kind of liberal false equivalence, like a three handed economist, is seriously one of the most egregious errors in argument prevalent in the world right now. Kearney has poor to no form. O'Mahony has poor form. And Suisse is capable of seeing that and seeing arguments against either player playing. He wouldn't have either in the team I think (personally I think I'd have both with Kearney being closer to the cut than O'Mahony). His argument is that O'Mahony's inclusion is perceived as beyond argument and that any criticism is immediately a sign of someone's opinion being worthless. Whereas Kearney's is a lightning rod for hate. Not the same thing. People are foaming with fury at Kearney being included and go mental if the concept that O'Mahony's place being contentious is mentioned. Conflating rational dispute with crazy is not doing anyone any favours. Don't make the crazies argument for them, you'll make one they didn't make, don't have, and will validate their irrationality.

It's clearly not beyond argument. A bigger call is dropping McGrath (a three test Lion) rather than O'Mahony. One which Schmidt did admit was due to form.

Kearney and O'Mahony are not in the team due to form. Nor should an international manager select solely on transient form. They are there because they are senior internationals, big game players, and Schmidt deems both capable of stepping up to deliver the plan. I hope he's right.

That doesn't in any way mean that the echo chamber around Kearney's inclusion being a travesty and any criticism of O'Mahony being a sign of clownishness isn't utterly and entirely risable. They are both up for debate but the discourse is completely skewed and liberal equivocation normalises the f%~king crazy sh!t. It's not normal. It's crazy. Suisse is right.

[Ruckedtobits]

Don't think Kearney should be in the team, but predictably he is on the receiving end of most of the abuse. Absolutely no analysis whatsoever of POM's form. Anyone brave enough to question his place in the team is shot down as "a clown" or a "joke." I think a lot of this has to do with the mainstream media's inability or unwillingness to use stats. If we laid out POM's season in numbers, there would be very little debate. But we're left with "leadership" and "passion" now.

I fully agree that POM is in poor form, but what you've done there is not use stats and then slagged off his supporters for going back to the leadership and passion arguments, which is just as bad as what you're arguing against and keeps the whole nonsense going.

That kind of liberal false equivalence, like a three handed economist, is seriously one of the most egregious errors in argument prevalent in the world right now. Kearney has poor to no form. O'Mahony has poor form. And Suisse is capable of seeing that and seeing arguments against either player playing. He wouldn't have either in the team I think (personally I think I'd have both with Kearney being closer to the cut than O'Mahony). His argument is that O'Mahony's inclusion is perceived as beyond argument and that any criticism is immediately a sign of someone's opinion being worthless. Whereas Kearney's is a lightning rod for hate. Not the same thing. People are foaming with fury at Kearney being included and go mental if the concept that O'Mahony's place being contentious is mentioned. Conflating rational dispute with crazy is not doing anyone any favours. Don't make the crazies argument for them, you'll make one they didn't make, don't have, and will validate their irrationality.

It's clearly not beyond argument. A bigger call is dropping McGrath (a three test Lion) rather than O'Mahony. One which Schmidt did admit was due to form.

Kearney and O'Mahony are not in the team due to form. Nor should an international manager select solely on transient form. They are there because they are senior internationals, big game players, and Schmidt deems both capable of stepping up to deliver the plan. I hope he's right.

That doesn't in any way mean that the echo chamber around Kearney's inclusion being a travesty and any criticism of O'Mahony being a sign of clownishness isn't utterly and entirely risable. They are both up for debate but the discourse is completely skewed and liberal equivocation normalises the f%~king crazy sh!t. It's not normal. It's crazy. Suisse is right.

I certainly hope that the piece was written after a few pints and in-depth discussion of the options at both 15 and 6. Because if it wasn't, it is way too rational for a post of 1.02 a.m. on a Saturday morning.

Totally agree with the sentiments if not quite with the underlying rationale. No 15 is selected because JS is uncertain whether any alternative has the presence and smarts to guide two newcomers in our back-three. No. 6 is selected because JS recognises that without Heaslip our line-out could be filleted and we would have nobody to attack theirs and there will be a lot of lineouts in this game.

[suisse]

Don't think Kearney should be in the team, but predictably he is on the receiving end of most of the abuse. Absolutely no analysis whatsoever of POM's form. Anyone brave enough to question his place in the team is shot down as "a clown" or a "joke." I think a lot of this has to do with the mainstream media's inability or unwillingness to use stats. If we laid out POM's season in numbers, there would be very little debate. But we're left with "leadership" and "passion" now.

I fully agree that POM is in poor form, but what you've done there is not use stats and then slagged off his supporters for going back to the leadership and passion arguments, which is just as bad as what you're arguing against and keeps the whole nonsense going.

I didn't slag off his supporters. If I did, I would have referred to them as turnips or tea slurpers etc.

Stats have been used on this site all season. I don't come here often but regularly this season, especially from the Leinster game and 2 European ties, I have seen plenty of posters break down POM's performances into numbers or at least provide a link to where you can see more. I think some people here have done an extremely good job at seeing through the progeganda.

And back to point 1. Who said I was talking about his fans? I specifically mentioned the mainstream media in my post. It is them who use terms like that for POM. It is also their job to look these things up. Not mine. DOC (who is a far better pundit than I expected), Wood and BOD have all jumped on this recently. Murray Kinsella aswell. I said nothing about his fans.

[suisse]

Dave McIntrye described Ireland as "genuinely world class from 6 to 10."

POM's 3 biggest games of the season.
Racing (h). 9 carries for 5 meters. 1 pass. 1 line out stolen. 15 tackles (below CJ but top 5) and 1 turnover conceded. 1 penalty conceded.
Castres (a). 2 passes, 8 carries for 5 meters. 0 line outs stolen. 7 tackles (0 missed) which is half way down the list. 0 penalties conceded.
Leinster (a). 2 passes, 2 carries for 3 meters. 0 line out ball stolen. 11 tackles (0 missed) also down compared to his back row partners. 2 penalties conceded, 1 shoelace tied and 1 interview gone viral.

This is not an anti POM thing. I don't care who plays as long as we f%~king win. But there was an indepth discussion (fully merited) on the BODcast about Rob Kearney and why he's in the team. When it came to the backrow, POM's form is totally overlooked and we get "aggression" and "world class." What example of his season can be termed "world class"? He is very ordinary based on this. What am I missing?

As for the game, I saw someone mention 4/6 for a yellow. Absolutely. I think it is 7/4 on both teams to get a yellow. Can't believe Ireland are 5/1 to beat Denmark and 11/4 draw no bet!! Denmark are a far better team than a lot of the media guys are saying (Kilbane, Giles) but one or both of those bets has to be seriously considered.