Ireland v Fiji

[offshorerules]

Just finished watching the first half of Wales v Australia and the one thing I would really like to see a big improvement in, is Ireland's passing skills.
Wales are good but Australia are really slick passers of the ball.

Yes- of course. This is like that old Bill Clinton campaign rubric- “it’s the economy stupid!” Change ‘passing’ for ‘economy’ and you have the single greatest influence on the performance of all rugby teams. But it’s amazing how neglected that basic skill is in both selection and criticism.


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Its always been my bugbear in relation to Keith Earls.

[fourthirtythree]

His distribution is fine for a winger. No problems.

How do you feel about McCloskey and Farrell in midfield then?

[wixfjord]

Farrell is incredibly lucky to be enormously physically gifted, because he has done feck all this season to warrant a place at 13. His passing is utterly awful at times (Leinster, Castres).

McCloskey in fairness isn't a bad offloader and short passer.

This could be a tough game, will need our front 5 to really step up because they have some serious strike runners and good impact too. How Yato isn't starting is beyond me!

[OTT]

About two years ago I thought McCloskey was going to be a guy who would come through and offer a serious alternative at IC. The way he has gone since has disappointed me. For such a big man he loses the ball a lot in contact he seems to attack very upright which results in him getting turned over a lot once he is stopped in his tracks. Defensively he is suspect as well. He can either put in a showreel hit or he will flap at a guy. The inconsistency in his defence for a guy with his physical attributes is again disappointing.

I am not sure if he struggles to stay tuned in for a full match or he just needs to be fitter generally so that he does not need down times if either of these are the case they can still be worked on. It would be a great position to have him as a viable alternative as opposed to someone who gets in because we have no one else.

What do others think of him? Maybe I am wrong? Again my opinions are coming from a place where I really rated his potential a few seasons ago.

Can't comment to much on Farrell as I only heard the good things about him at Grenoble without seeing him play and while he has not been great for Munster so far he is still finding his feet so don't want to make an unfair call on him.

Glad a lot of changes were made to the team, from a Leinster perspective would have loved Dev to get a rest don't want last season to repeat itself and he has had a lot of minutes already.

[wixfjord]

McCloskey seemed to completely drop off in form for a lot of last year.

In the game against England he wasn't awful, but he made some really poor defensive reads. It's taken this long for him to get back into Schmidt's plans.

He has been top notch this year though. He's an absolute bulldozer going forward, makes metres every carry, but also seems to have added a little bit more subtlety and some nice switches into this game.

On form, and I know that's not a main determinant for Schimdt no matter what he says, he deserves his jersey much more than Farrell.

[simonokeeffe]

bunch of weisenheimers

chapeau Xan

443 is spot on re Porter

[Ruckedtobits]

The inclusion of Porter as first choice probably ordained that Bent would not be on the bench. Furlong, Stander, Henshaw etc are selected there to ensure availability of hard core if the "young kids" look under pressure. Bent could survive the game but not rescue it, IMO.

Farrell is lucky to be in Squad and maybe his return to Munster from Grenoble is linked to that call-up.

Joe has always fancied having big centres. Look at his selections historically Auckland Blues, Clermont etc. Joe has always believed that a line-break or breakdown beyond the gainline in mid-field creates the optimum ball for a good first five-eight. He had to shelve those views when he arrived in Leinster but when word of Henshaw's availability from Connacht broke, he was all in favour of the move.

Both McCloskey and Farrell have shown sloppy weaknesses in passing - forward passes under no pressure a speciality. If either or both can sharpen up in this area, they will get a lot more 'Joe Time' in the coming months. Defensively, Joey will be key to how they defend as he is an excellent talker and tackler, on both sides, which is almost unique for an Irish out-half. But Jordi will still need to cover the second line in 12/13 channel and not assume that this area is as unpenetrated as normal. That La Rochelle flanker in particular is a great line-breaker.

[arsebiscuits1]

In any furore over Bent what gets missed, I think, is the actual salient point: Schmidt is prioritising the future to an extent that Porter is starting. Porter's started only a couple of times for us and here he is starting an international. He's been a tighthead for a wet weekend. That's both a real show of faith but more importantly I think, a demonstration of wilingness to risk in order to build.

The sensible selection to win tomorrow would be Bent. Yet Schmidt chooses Porter. It's the kind of brave selection decision that Ireland's November international series call for. And yes I do mean if we ever hope to achieve anything in the World Cup. It's why he chose Ryan (out of favour to some extent at Munster) over Archer (who against the odds has developed into a semi-competent player. I mean no offence but when he was being subbed by the ref for his own safety against our academy you would not have taken bets on that) who will not be a serious international prospect at the world cup.

And I believe that you could same about Zebo's ommission: it's a brave, future focused, selection decision. And I do think it's a gamble, but one well worth taking.

It's Devin's job to hunt him down like he did in the RDS (to be fair, the centre pairing tomorrow should be able to lend a hand).

Never heard this. Is there more to the story?

[offshorerules]

His distribution is fine for a winger. No problems.

How do you feel about McCloskey and Farrell in midfield then?

Honestly haven't seen enough of Farrell to form an opinion. The little I did see of him wasn't hugely impressed but it was very early on in the season. McCloskey on the other hand has looked decent when I've seen him and definitely brings something to the midfield with his physicality but I would think wither of our wingers are going to see a lot of ball through the hands.

[fourthirtythree]

Never heard this. Is there more to the story?

Not really: he (while on a senior contract) was eaten alive at an A game in Donnybrook by our academy props. Now to be fair our academy props would probably have been McGrath and Moore at the time!

Match report was via a poster here and will be in the archives. McGrath in academy would probably give the date.

His distribution is fine for a winger. No problems.

How do you feel about McCloskey and Farrell in midfield then?

Honestly haven't seen enough of Farrell to form an opinion. The little I did see of him wasn't hugely impressed but it was very early on in the season. McCloskey on the other hand has looked decent when I've seen him and definitely brings something to the midfield with his physicality but I would think wither of our wingers are going to see a lot of ball through the hands.

That was kind of my point. McCloskey can offload, but not really a passer, distributer, or a playmaker.

Now I haven't seen a minute of Farrell playing for Grenoble, but I have seen him playing for Munster and he is really, really lucky and I am really, really, surprised that Schmidt selected him. He specialises in two types of pass: the hospital, and the intercept. He has thrown some absolute howlers this season.

Now while as a centre Earls was always an international quality winger (and sometimes the only one we had, and certainly the best) but in terms of distribution, and quality of his hands, I'd pick him ahead of either of those two lumps.

Edit: three types of pass, I forgot and Ruckedtobits reminded me: the hospital, intercept and the forward. Tools in their box. Arrows in their quiver. Weapons at their command. Well his mainly. Farrell that is.

I'm sure he wouldn't be playing unless the eagerness which has exhibited in his passing has been talked out of him. I don't think we'll see any hopeful long passes from either of them tomorrow. Up the middle, into traffic and pump the legs or offload.

[wixfjord]

Never heard this. Is there more to the story?

Not really: he (while on a senior contract) was eaten alive at an A game in Donnybrook by our academy props. Now to be fair our academy props would probably have been McGrath and Moore at the time!

Match report was via a poster here and will be in the archives. McGrath in academy would probably give the date.

Iirc this was the game in the RDS on Good Friday that Noel Reid had a mare in. Was the weekend of the Cardiff QF if it's the right one I'm thinking of.

[paddyor]

Never heard this. Is there more to the story?

Not really: he (while on a senior contract) was eaten alive at an A game in Donnybrook by our academy props. Now to be fair our academy props would probably have been McGrath and Moore at the time!

Match report was via a poster here and will be in the archives. McGrath in academy would probably give the date.

Iirc this was the game in the RDS on Good Friday that Noel Reid had a mare in. Was the weekend of the Cardiff QF if it's the right one I'm thinking of.

Would have been sometime around 2012 as that's when Farrelly and co were touting him for international honours.

[fourthirtythree]

Never heard this. Is there more to the story?

Not really: he (while on a senior contract) was eaten alive at an A game in Donnybrook by our academy props. Now to be fair our academy props would probably have been McGrath and Moore at the time!

Match report was via a poster here and will be in the archives. McGrath in academy would probably give the date.

Iirc this was the game in the RDS on Good Friday that Noel Reid had a mare in. Was the weekend of the Cardiff QF if it's the right one I'm thinking of.

Don't think it was that match, it was around this time of year IIRC. Much lower profile match, an actual A match to keep players ticking over rather than a B&I cup and definitely not a final. I wasn't at it whereas I was at the Noel Reid-is-not-a-ten match.

EDIT - It was Jack O'Connell, a fine loosehead at the time. Not McGrath. It was November. It was 2012. Several senior posters on here referred to it (e.g. Ronk, Dave Cahill, etc.) and it's pure hearsay from me as I definitely wasn't there.

[Ruckedtobits]

Just looking at some of the coverage of the Captain's Run in Aviva and sincerely hoping that we don't see anything like the sh*£e jerseys that they are wearing and that, for the game, we are kitted out in Irish Jerseys of green, not some marketing rubbish designed by Canterbury and marketed by the IRFU for another Christmas "killing for the kids".

[wixfjord]

EDIT - It was Jack O'Connell, a fine loosehead at the time. Not McGrath. It was November. It was 2012. Several senior posters on here referred to it (e.g. Ronk, Dave Cahill, etc.) and it's pure hearsay from me as I definitely wasn't there.

Ah yes, I remember that being posted about alright.

As an aside, Jack O'Connell is a bit of a wasted career. He was a cracking LH and played a few very good league games for us before going to Bristol. Haven't heard much about him since then?

Hopefully Dooley doesn't go down a similar route. I really believe if he got a run of games he'd be pressing for an Ireland call up.

[artaneboy]

Farrell is incredibly lucky to be enormously physically gifted, because he has done feck all this season to warrant a place at 13. His passing is utterly awful at times (Leinster, Castres).

McCloskey in fairness isn't a bad offloader and short passer.

This could be a tough game, will need our front 5 to really step up because they have some serious strike runners and good impact too. How Yato isn't starting is beyond me!

Agree on both. Farrell; I just don’t see what he brings, other than bulk. It was he butchered that first chance for Earls with a forward pass against us a few weeks ago and that was far from an isolated occurrence. McCloskey is an efficient passer for a 12.

Playing them together? Maybe for a one-off, but can’t see it being a long term combo.

[leinsterforever]

Fair negative on Farrell here, lads. I'd be a lot more optimistic. Look at his upside - if he starts doing well he could be a bit of a weapon. I think he's actually a really good passer for such a big man. Usually guys with that sort of physique aren't good passers because they back themselves to bosh. Yes, he's been a bit over exuberant when it comes to distribution - throwing an intercept pass and that forward pass against Leinster - but it's better that he has a willingness to pass than just head down and truck it up himself all the time. And there's no better place for him to fine-tune elements of his passing game than in Camp Joe. He's also got a good fend and pretty good pace for such a big guy. I'm excited to see how he goes.

On this John Ryan thing, maybe he was struggling with his colitis at the time? He was probably chopping and changing between loosehead and tighthead back then as well, which would have hindered him. The important thing is that he's rock solid in the scrum now. I'd say he's probably the securest scrummaging tighthead available to Schmidt at the moment.

[fourthirtythree]

Archer, not Ryan. Ryan was academy loose head back then. Porter was a child. Ryan is injured.

Sorry to disagree but I think Schmidt will curtail the passing. If he was picking for passing (as some here have said Schmidt does) he wouldn't be in your top 45 players.

[leinsterforever]

Archer, not Ryan. Ryan was academy loose head back then. Porter was a child. Ryan is injured.

Sorry to disagree but I think Schmidt will curtail the passing. If he was picking for passing (as some here have said Schmidt does) he wouldn't be in your top 45 players.

Ah, okay. I re-read your post and I get what you were saying. I got the sense that Archer was only ahead of Ryan because the latter was carrying some sort of injury, though.

Disagree on Farrell. For me, he's a fine passer, but just needs to pick and choose the right moments to unleash his passes. Schmidt will work all that stuff. You only need to look at how much Earls's passing improved on Joe's watch to realise what a big thing passing is for him as a coach

[wixfjord]

Archer, not Ryan. Ryan was academy loose head back then. Porter was a child. Ryan is injured.

Sorry to disagree but I think Schmidt will curtail the passing. If he was picking for passing (as some here have said Schmidt does) he wouldn't be in your top 45 players.

Ah, okay. I re-read your post and I get what you were saying. I got the sense that Archer was only ahead of Ryan because the latter was carrying some sort of injury, though.

Disagree on Farrell. For me, he's a fine passer, but just needs to pick and choose the right moments to unleash his passes. Schmidt will work all that stuff. You only need to look at how much Earls's passing improved on Joe's watch to realise what a big thing passing is for him as a coach

Based on what evidence? He certainly hasn't shown that so far this year, in fact the opposite.