Ireland v Fiji

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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby paddyor » November 18th, 2017, 11:14 pm

betty swallocks wrote:Porter didn't look out of place. Church (in particular) and Furlong upped it a gear when they came on. Marmion I thought played very well. He really is quick around the park. Carbery wonderful in spots. Back five seriously average

I thought he was kind-of muted. But he did held up his side of the scrum well which I reckon was his main assignment. Schmidt did something similar with Dillane last season when he collected no restarts and didn't even take a lineout. He's played the same amount of minutes as last season now and the noticeable difference in his stats at lease is is he's making less mistakes(missed tackles, turnovers conceded, bad passes). We've high hopes for him but I think if he gets through the season doing well at the scrum and keeping mistakes to a minimum that'll be good season for him. He did only change sides late last season.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby Dundalk 1 » November 19th, 2017, 12:00 am

That was a truly shocking performance by Ireland
The game should have been over at 17 3
Sloppy play before half time allowed Fiji back into the match
The performance at the start of the second half was very poor and only the bench with both Healy and Furlong particularly good delivered the win
The referee only reffed one side but we should have been able to deal with that
Dillane,Farrell,Murphy,Kearney and Marmiom were dreadful
Only Conway,Sweetman,and Ruddock of the starters could be happy with their performance
I can’t believe Joe implied that Marmiom was good
Wait till he sees the video - slow to pass - steps sideways and mostly awful box kicking
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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby suisse » November 19th, 2017, 2:58 am

cormac wrote:Did I just hear Andrew Conway describe himself as a Lunster when he was growing up?


He's allowed to not have supported Leinster growing up. It is a bit weird but that's it.

I loved the part where he said he was going outside his "comfort zone." He moved about 3 hours down the road
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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby Oldschoolsocks » November 19th, 2017, 9:24 am

cormac wrote:Did I just hear Andrew Conway describe himself as a Lunster when he was growing up?


"Ich bin ein Berliner" ???
I just wanted to see Gordon D'Arcy get a 'back, sack and crack wax'
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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby Oldschool » November 19th, 2017, 10:40 am

Marmion was playing for himself and not the team.
Too much sniping and (as a result, in part) slow to the breakdown.
This meant that quick ball went a begging.
Quick ball that Joey would have filleted Fiji with.
What Joe says in public is not what he says in private.
Marmion will never play like that again for Ireland.
In fact Luke might get on the bench next W/E just to make sure Marmion gets the message.
Marmion's game impacted on the rest of the backs.
They'll be hoping that's how JS sees it too.
So at best, case not proven.
Porter, 21 years old, startig at TH was comfortable, JS will be very pleased with that, the extras are useless if he can't scrum.
The try near ht seemed to sap our confidence.
At one point we were in a position to kick on and stuff them but like many an Irish team of old, we sat back to admire our handiwork and even JS wasn't able to shake off that malaise at HT.
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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby ronk » November 19th, 2017, 12:37 pm

Oldschool wrote:.
At one point we were in a position to kick on and stuff them but like many an Irish team of old, we sat back to admire our handiwork and even JS wasn't able to shake off that malaise at HT.


That's a risk with making so many changes. Guys werent as up for it as the should have been/were too afraid to make mistakes.

Its a good sign that regulars like Healy wanted to impress.

Fiji were good though. Their ability to stop our maul was one surprise.
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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby Raydollard » November 19th, 2017, 1:58 pm

Joey is an outstanding outhalf who can really hurt you. Given his potential to destroy you, I feel that he was targeted yesterday in the same manner that England target Jonny all the time.
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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby ronk » November 19th, 2017, 2:04 pm

He was targeted because he was the soft target.

He gets completely smashed a lot, even by the standards of other small players.
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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby TerenureJim » November 19th, 2017, 3:05 pm

Seem to be a new breed of refs starting to come through, last night was interesting in that we got pinged for not releasing immediately whereas they were allowed to free reign, also he might need a spirit level to see what horizontal is with that Healy tackle, guess we're back to the old rule of the player having to be injured to get a sanction.
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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 19th, 2017, 3:33 pm

I don't think Joey is targeted really, think he just carries the ball to the line and passes at the last possible second. It's not like Johnny where there are very obvious late hits after kicks or off the ball stuff on the ground.
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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 19th, 2017, 3:44 pm

Australia, Wales and Georgia beware. Fiji are a significant team who are improving at a rate of knots. When you review their Squad you find many individual talents who have only limited opportunity to play together, but have the potential to impose themselves when they do. They play Canada next week and will marmelize them. Their companions in their RWC19 Pool can only look on in trepidation of the future contests.

Ireland are now happy to have survived for the win. Thirteen was too many changes. We possibly didn't expect them to be so good at the breakdown - and they were good, not just from our shortcomings but also from the refereeing interpretations. Botia, a flanker selecter as a centre, was a major factor for turnovers. Their first-phase is very competent, their breakdown is excellent. But they need a No 10 who has more ability to utilise their great running skills.

Ireland were, naturally, disjointed. When players get isolated, we give turnovers. Individual, over the ball guardians, Murphy, Dillane and Conan et al, were blown off the breakdown by strong counter-rucking. Kearney's intercepted, skip, pass was the wrong selection and an unnecessary concession, and, almost certainly, outside the play book for the day.

At 17-3, having played very sensibly and exerting pressure on strong opponents whilst getting to know team-mates, Ireland should have played smarter to close out the half. The second-half start was poor and the following 15 mins were not tactically positive. Ireland, with lots of ball, allowed Fiji into the game and made it very hard for themselves.

This was the sort of game that individual players' performances mattered. Irish teams must have teamwork to be effective and we missed that yesterday. Our mid-field wasn't cohesive. Our back-row was unbalanced, our front-five weren't travelling together and were looking around for where to go next.

IMO, Irish players who will be satisfied with their day's work include: Conway, Sweetnam, McCloskey, Herring, Porter, Dillane and Murphy. Less satisfied will be: Kearney, Farrell, Carbery, Marmion, and McGrath.

Some of those in each group can be better with better teammates around them. Others have shown they may not be able to provide what Joe needs, no matter who's alongside.

A good learning experience for Joe and his staff. In just over 12 months, we have beaten four of the five Southern Hemisphere teams who have all been in the top 10 World Rankings. The fifth team, is Argentina and Ireland fill be very keen to complete that set next weekend, with a win.
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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby RoboProp » November 19th, 2017, 6:08 pm

I think I'm the only one who thought Big Stu had a mare. It looked to me he was regularly losing the ball in contact, or getting pinged for not releasing. He's a big ball crashing IC and a somewhat limited one at that. For a big lump I can't recall him breaking one tackle. Even that support line he ran following Healy where he knocked on. Basic stuff not done right.
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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby hugonaut » November 19th, 2017, 8:02 pm

RoboProp wrote:I think I'm the only one who thought Big Stu had a mare. It looked to me he was regularly losing the ball in contact, or getting pinged for not releasing. He's a big ball crashing IC and a somewhat limited one at that. For a big lump I can't recall him breaking one tackle. Even that support line he ran following Healy where he knocked on. Basic stuff not done right.


I thought he did well on the rewatch. Wasn't hugely impressed by him at the match, but looked at it more carefully on the recording and he got through a lot of work, loads of industry. I don't think he'll be pushing Aki or Henshaw for the No12 jersey, but he didn't let himself down at all. The better of the two centres, in my opinion.

There's a danger of sounding like a zealot saying something like this, but there's no passengers on a Joe Schmidt team. Aside from the basic technical handling skills [catching, passing, placing] you've got to chase hard and you've got to be competitive, energetic and efficient at the breakdown.

I thought that he was taking loads of time out in his only previous test outing, when he played against England in the Six Nations a couple of years ago. He wasn't getting back into defensive positions, he wasn't really fighting at rucks or chasing kicks hard – I thought he was so much more focused and hard-working yesterday.
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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby paddyor » November 19th, 2017, 8:54 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:.......

IMO, Irish players who will be satisfied with their day's work include: Conway, Sweetnam, McCloskey, Herring, Porter, Dillane and Murphy. Less satisfied will be: Kearney, Farrell, Carbery, Marmion, and McGrath.

Some of those in each group can be better with better teammates around them. Others have shown they may not be able to provide what Joe needs, no matter who's alongside.

A good learning experience for Joe and his staff. In just over 12 months, we have beaten four of the five Southern Hemisphere teams who have all been in the top 10 World Rankings. The fifth team, is Argentina and Ireland fill be very keen to complete that set next weekend, with a win.

I thought Murphy was poor, didn't seem sharp at all. He did win 2 turnovers but on the other side of the ball some of clearouts weren't very good.

I aslo think Marmion will be quie happy that he's clearly 2nd choice behind Marmion. He had to deal with some really dreadful ball and I don't think the mistakes will be held against him.

Agree with the rest.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby Donny B. » November 19th, 2017, 9:30 pm

suisse wrote:
cormac wrote:Did I just hear Andrew Conway describe himself as a Lunster when he was growing up?


He's allowed to not have supported Leinster growing up. It is a bit weird but that's it.

I loved the part where he said he was going outside his "comfort zone." He moved about 3 hours down the road


Lousy little weasel going the Niall Ronan route to curry favour with Munster fans. A Blackrock kid is a Lunster? Yeah, right!

Maybe he hopes that will make him a regular starter with Munster, which he's never been. Is it just me or has he lost the pace he had when he was younger? Never seems to back himself on the outside anymore.
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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby Fan with smartphone » November 19th, 2017, 9:51 pm

hugonaut wrote:
RoboProp wrote:I think I'm the only one who thought Big Stu had a mare. It looked to me he was regularly losing the ball in contact, or getting pinged for not releasing. He's a big ball crashing IC and a somewhat limited one at that. For a big lump I can't recall him breaking one tackle. Even that support line he ran following Healy where he knocked on. Basic stuff not done right.


I thought he did well on the rewatch. Wasn't hugely impressed by him at the match, but looked at it more carefully on the recording and he got through a lot of work, loads of industry. I don't think he'll be pushing Aki or Henshaw for the No12 jersey, but he didn't let himself down at all. The better of the two centres, in my opinion.

There's a danger of sounding like a zealot saying something like this, but there's no passengers on a Joe Schmidt team. Aside from the basic technical handling skills [catching, passing, placing] you've got to chase hard and you've got to be competitive, energetic and efficient at the breakdown.

I thought that he was taking loads of time out in his only previous test outing, when he played against England in the Six Nations a couple of years ago. He wasn't getting back into defensive positions, he wasn't really fighting at rucks or chasing kicks hard – I thought he was so much more focused and hard-working yesterday.


You could see he was really, really trying to do the type of things that get noticed on the re-watch. I also thought he was unlucky for his offload. It’s one where you’d hope your team mate would see the body positions and take a gamble. I would agree that he looked the better of the centres too, but there is hope for Farrell in the longer term. At the moment though, Farrell doesn’t look fit to me. And when he gets tired he gets a bit throughother.
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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby artaneboy » November 19th, 2017, 10:03 pm

Donny B. wrote:
suisse wrote:
cormac wrote:Did I just hear Andrew Conway describe himself as a Lunster when he was growing up?


He's allowed to not have supported Leinster growing up. It is a bit weird but that's it.

I loved the part where he said he was going outside his "comfort zone." He moved about 3 hours down the road


Lousy little weasel going the Niall Ronan route to curry favour with Munster fans. A Blackrock kid is a Lunster? Yeah, right!

Maybe he hopes that will make him a regular starter with Munster, which he's never been. Is it just me or has he lost the pace he had when he was younger? Never seems to back himself on the outside anymore.

Funny, when I heard that quote, I straight away thought of Ronan too.

So yes, Conway is hard for us to love- but he’s had a good couple of weeks. Looked good yesterday at FB, played very well last week on the wing.

You’re right on his pace- either he’s lost it, or chooses not use it as before. I suspect it’s the latter, as he often was spectacular but ineffective in the past; now he’s the opposite. Not running out if support, etc. Unpalatable- But also undeniable that his star is on the rise.


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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby Fan with smartphone » November 20th, 2017, 3:53 am

Jerry Guscott has McCloskey in his illustrious ‘home nations team of the week.’ #lionswatch. As much as I would have defended him to roboprop, that seems generous.
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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby the spoofer » November 20th, 2017, 10:27 am

I thought Farrell was poor but the most worrying thing for me in the game was seeing Dillane and Jordi Murphy get folded like deck chairs when guarding ruck ball.
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Re: Ireland v Fiji

Postby scentofgunpowder » November 20th, 2017, 10:57 am

the spoofer wrote:I thought Farrell was poor but the most worrying thing for me in the game was seeing Dillane and Jordi Murphy get folded like deck chairs when guarding ruck ball.


I think people who don't watch Connacht regularly have this impression that Dillane is some sort of monster, maybe based off high profile moments like his cameo in the 6N and some highlight reel big hits and carries in the 15-16 season. But as a Connacht fan I think he seems strangely weak, and gets dominated in contact quite a bit.
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