Ireland v Argentina 2017

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 2017

Postby artaneboy » November 30th, 2017, 1:55 pm

Dexter wrote:
blockhead wrote:This is turning into the most boring thead of the season so far.

Is it really about the Argentina game? :D

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 2017

Postby artaneboy » November 30th, 2017, 1:56 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
And yes again, “unbiased individual opinion is fine”- when compared to improperly used data. Data is being used here in this specific case, not in an objective manner where there’s a common acceptance of its validity, but selectively and inadequately to back up an individual opinion.




I would imagine there is a common acceptance of its validity, really you've just decided that there isn't but that doesn't make it a fact. I would take the stats with a pinch of salt and would agree that they don't tell the whole story, but that doesn't equate to them being wildly inaccurate or irrelevant, and to disregard them as you have is being selective to back up your individual opinion. It's hard to take your dismissive attitude to the stats seriously when you didn't think that a blatant missed tackle by JGP on Luke Marshall counted because "it was at close quarters and the Ulster man was felled instantly by another anyway".

Oh- are we talking again? :wink:
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 2017

Postby neilinboston » November 30th, 2017, 1:58 pm

artaneboy wrote:
neilinboston wrote:So the use of available data points is rubbish but use of, eh, totally unbiased individual opinion is fine?

You can’t use imperfect science to make a point but I can use opinion to refute it categorically.

I think everybody agrees that he’s not a great natural defender. We can’t prove if he’s improving or not without watching every game he’s played and measuring tackles and reads and charting it to see if there’s been an improvement (volunteers welcome). Anecdotal evidence is js picking him for the squad and starting him. I’m sure the Leinster team have relevant data and that gets fed to Ireland and I’m sure Ireland do their own analysis too. That’s good enough to me and I’d pick the natural finisher with pace over McFadden.

Yes, “The use of available data points is rubbish”, when it does not measure what it’s supposed to measure.

And yes again, “unbiased individual opinion is fine”- when compared to improperly used data. Data is being used here in this specific case, not in an objective manner where there’s a common acceptance of its validity, but selectively and inadequately to back up an individual opinion.



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You may have missed my sarcasm in mentioning the totes unbiased individual opinion. I’ll put a winking face beside it next time for you.
Your opinion is entirely subjective. The stats are flawed we can agree. However neither is less flawed as a metric.
The only valid metric is the coach who has far more information than any of us who selects him for the highest level.
At worst this metric suggests that the wailing of ‘I wouldn’t start ab against my dead granny’ is just gross overreacting based on bias.
That doesn’t mean he’s a great defender. Just that he’s seen as a net positive.
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 2017

Postby heno » November 30th, 2017, 3:20 pm

blockhead wrote:This is turning into the most boring thead of the season so far.
I remember when people used to argue about rugby...

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 2017

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 30th, 2017, 4:36 pm

heno wrote:
blockhead wrote:This is turning into the most boring thead of the season so far.
I remember when people used to argue about rugby...

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What would you like us to entertain you with instead?
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 2017

Postby olaf the fat » November 30th, 2017, 4:38 pm

heno wrote:
blockhead wrote:This is turning into the most boring thead of the season so far.
I remember when people used to argue about rugby...

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Back in the day, when the only stat that counted was the score board. :D
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Ireland v Argentina 2017

Postby artaneboy » November 30th, 2017, 4:50 pm

neilinboston wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
neilinboston wrote:So the use of available data points is rubbish but use of, eh, totally unbiased individual opinion is fine?

You can’t use imperfect science to make a point but I can use opinion to refute it categorically.

I think everybody agrees that he’s not a great natural defender. We can’t prove if he’s improving or not without watching every game he’s played and measuring tackles and reads and charting it to see if there’s been an improvement (volunteers welcome). Anecdotal evidence is js picking him for the squad and starting him. I’m sure the Leinster team have relevant data and that gets fed to Ireland and I’m sure Ireland do their own analysis too. That’s good enough to me and I’d pick the natural finisher with pace over McFadden.

Yes, “The use of available data points is rubbish”, when it does not measure what it’s supposed to measure.

And yes again, “unbiased individual opinion is fine”- when compared to improperly used data. Data is being used here in this specific case, not in an objective manner where there’s a common acceptance of its validity, but selectively and inadequately to back up an individual opinion.



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You may have missed my sarcasm in mentioning the totes unbiased individual opinion. I’ll put a winking face beside it next time for you.
Your opinion is entirely subjective. The stats are flawed we can agree. However neither is less flawed as a metric.
The only valid metric is the coach who has far more information than any of us who selects him for the highest level.
At worst this metric suggests that the wailing of ‘I wouldn’t start ab against my dead granny’ is just gross overreacting based on bias.
That doesn’t mean he’s a great defender. Just that he’s seen as a net positive.


Oh, I didn’t miss your sarcasm. That’s the only bit I did get though!

I don’t know why you think I believe that Adam’s “not a “net positive”, I mentioned his potential a merits every time I referenced him. We are talking in general now.

But anyway, I’m done here though, this is the third time around.


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Last edited by artaneboy on November 30th, 2017, 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 2017

Postby wixfjord » November 30th, 2017, 5:27 pm

neilinboston wrote:
At worst this metric suggests that the wailing of ‘I wouldn’t start ab against my dead granny’ is just gross overreacting based on bias.


My god man, can you not see the intense irony in that statement?! :lol:
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 2017

Postby paddyor » November 30th, 2017, 6:29 pm

heno wrote:
blockhead wrote:This is turning into the most boring thead of the season so far.
I remember when people used to argue about rugby...

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We were and then the Stazis intervened.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 2017

Postby Logorrhea » November 30th, 2017, 9:55 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:No but unreasonably editing my post ......

Meh. Was agreeing with you, just highlighted the one bit I thought a bit silly.

No big deal.
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 2017

Postby neilinboston » December 1st, 2017, 1:36 am

wixfjord wrote:
neilinboston wrote:
At worst this metric suggests that the wailing of ‘I wouldn’t start ab against my dead granny’ is just gross overreacting based on bias.


My god man, can you not see the intense irony in that statement?! :lol:

Are you arguing that your bias based opinion is fact is ok but my effort to apply a metric is unfounded bias? Intense irony indeed
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 2017

Postby Dave Cahill » December 1st, 2017, 2:49 am

paddyor wrote:
heno wrote:
blockhead wrote:This is turning into the most boring thead of the season so far.
I remember when people used to argue about rugby...

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We were and then the Stazis intervened.
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 2017

Postby olaf the fat » December 1st, 2017, 10:08 am

Statsi in this case
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 2017

Postby FLIP » December 1st, 2017, 11:01 am

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 2017

Postby olaf the fat » December 1st, 2017, 12:48 pm

two weeks out of a november international against Argentina thread is pretty good.
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 2017

Postby Leinsterlunatic » December 4th, 2017, 5:56 pm

neilinboston wrote:
wixfjord wrote:
neilinboston wrote:
At worst this metric suggests that the wailing of ‘I wouldn’t start ab against my dead granny’ is just gross overreacting based on bias.


My god man, can you not see the intense irony in that statement?! :lol:

Are you arguing that your bias based opinion is fact is ok but my effort to apply a metric is unfounded bias? Intense irony indeed


Do you want some ice for that Byrne?
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