Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:15

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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby the spoofer » February 12th, 2018, 10:53 am

Raydollard wrote:For Leinster’s sake he’d better have a higher ceiling than the extremely limited Byrne. Otherwise there in no decent 10 on the horizon.


Not sure if this is a wind up. Byrne is further developed at 22 than Sexton was at the same age. His ceiling is pretty high as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby wixfjord » February 12th, 2018, 10:56 am

the spoofer wrote:
Raydollard wrote:For Leinster’s sake he’d better have a higher ceiling than the extremely limited Byrne. Otherwise there in no decent 10 on the horizon.


Not sure if this is a wind up. Byrne is further developed at 22 than Sexton was at the same age. His ceiling is pretty high as far as I'm concerned.


Ah come on you should know by now it is a wind up! Just ignore Ray like most do.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » February 12th, 2018, 12:56 pm

suisse wrote:Italy's continued involvement in this tournament is making a mockery of the event. Even if they are 'getting better' as some like to think, the gap to rest is getting so big now that is doesn't matter. They're absolutely dreadful and they offer nothing on the field apart from bloating individual player stats. We're at the stage now that anything less than a bonus point win is deemed a failure, no matter how hard the players and management try convince us otherwise.

Plenty of excuses are brought up as to why there shouldn't, at least, be a play-off for a relegation/promotion game. One is that it'll kill Italian rugby. But if they're not good enough to beat Georgia or Romania at home, then tough luck. Another argument is that Georgia and Romania are not very good either. But they'll never be if they don't get even a slice of the action Italy does. In the past 12 months, Italy have played Ireland twice, England twice, France, Scotland twice, Wales, Fiji twice, Australia, Argentina and south Africa. They normally play 8-10 games every year v tier 1 nations. That's about 40 in a world cup cycle. How many go Georgia and Romania get? Maybe 4? And none at home. Over 18 years, does anyone really believe Georgia or Romania would be as bad as I Italy are no we?


I can't stand John Feehan but I see where he's coming from with not touching the 6N. He's arrogant about it, but I don't think he's wrong. I'd be more inclined to suggest that Georgia etc develop the Rugby Europe Championship. I would see the 6N as the Champions League and hope that that then develops into the Europa League.

Italy were dreadful on Saturday though. I didn't even think it was fun to watch from our point of view, it was just too easy. They probably need a bit of a leg up in terms of the fixtures, make sure they don't have a day less to recover like they had this week.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby Dave Cahill » February 12th, 2018, 1:27 pm

There is no difference between Italy now and Ireland in the 90s. Do you think we'd be discussing this if Ireland had been relegated from the 5 Nations? We wouldn't be, at least not on a Leinster forum, because the growth of Irish rugby in the 00's was funded by 5/6 Nations money.

Italy have to do what we did in the late 90's and early 00's. Bring their players home, concentrate on building the lowest bases of the pyramid, develop the age grade structures feeding into the their u20s, strengthen their franchises with the best Italian players, quality project players and premium foreign players, which will lead into a successful competitive international side.

So far, they seem to be doing the first three pretty well. The u20s beat us in the last JWRC and would have beaten us on friday night if they were at full muster.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby jimbobjoe » February 12th, 2018, 1:49 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:There is no difference between Italy now and Ireland in the 90s. Do you think we'd be discussing this if Ireland had been relegated from the 5 Nations? We wouldn't be, at least not on a Leinster forum, because the growth of Irish rugby in the 00's was funded by 5/6 Nations money.

Italy have to do what we did in the late 90's and early 00's. Bring their players home, concentrate on building the lowest bases of the pyramid, develop the age grade structures feeding into the their u20s, strengthen their franchises with the best Italian players, quality project players and premium foreign players, which will lead into a successful competitive international side.

So far, they seem to be doing the first three pretty well. The u20s beat us in the last JWRC and would have beaten us on friday night if they were at full muster.


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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby Dave Cahill » February 12th, 2018, 1:54 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I'd be more inclined to suggest that Georgia etc develop the Rugby Europe Championship.



Georgia are in an unfortunate position. They're far too good for the Rugby Europe competitions, but are considerably further off the 6 Nations pace than Italy are.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby olaf the fat » February 12th, 2018, 2:00 pm

The team ranked 14th in the world get beaten by the 3rd place team away from home after a 6 day turn around from playing the 2nd ranked - and we talk about dumping them out of the competition!

Hope we dont have an off season - 2013 Italy finished above both Ireland and France.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby Oldschool » February 12th, 2018, 6:22 pm

olaf the fat wrote:The team ranked 14th in the world get beaten by the 3rd place team away from home after a 6 day turn around from playing the 2nd ranked - and we talk about dumping them out of the competition!

Hope we dont have an off season - 2013 Italy finished above both Ireland and France.

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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby Lar » February 12th, 2018, 7:10 pm

I don't recall all the details and as far as I recall France were also suspended from the 5 Nations for around 10 years due to allegations of professionalism, but from what I remember reading France joined the 4 Nations making it 5 in around 1905 and it took around 50 years before they won their first title, admittedly with a couple of wars and that suspension thrown in. I know its not really comparing like with like but Italy are only 18 years into being a regular 6 Nations competitor. England are the only side they have yet to beat.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby hugonaut » February 12th, 2018, 9:50 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I can't stand John Feehan but I see where he's coming from with not touching the 6N. He's arrogant about it, but I don't think he's wrong. I'd be more inclined to suggest that Georgia etc develop the Rugby Europe Championship. I would see the 6N as the Champions League and hope that that then develops into the Europa League.

Italy were dreadful on Saturday though. I didn't even think it was fun to watch from our point of view, it was just too easy. They probably need a bit of a leg up in terms of the fixtures, make sure they don't have a day less to recover like they had this week.


The Six Nations is a western European competition. Germany have more chance of appearing in it than Georgia.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » February 12th, 2018, 10:29 pm

Not sure if you're agreeing with me Hugo or if I've been misunderstood, but just in case, I didn't mean that the "Europa League" would be a pathway to the 6N, just meant that it'd be better to develop two separate comps.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby hugonaut » February 12th, 2018, 10:58 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Not sure if you're agreeing with me Hugo or if I've been misunderstood, but just in case, I didn't mean that the "Europa League" would be a pathway to the 6N, just meant that it'd be better to develop two separate comps.


I'm agreeing with you ... and also stating a very bald factlet that is the biggest impediment to Georgia joining the 'Six' Nations.

If Belgium or Spain [or similar western European countries] were performing at Georgia's level, we'd have a very interesting and relevant debate about whether it should become the Seven Nations, whether there should be promotion and relegation etc.

But Tblisi is about 4000km from Dublin, and most people wouldn't be able to point it out on a map [hint: it's on the Asian side of Turkey]. It's an incredible country in its own right, but the idea that there's a place for it in a really old rugby competition which only involves six western European nations? That's not a plausible idea.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby Logorrhea » February 12th, 2018, 11:12 pm

hugonaut wrote:The Six Nations is a western European competition.


So was Pro12 until this year. If they had money Georgia would have no problem getting in.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby artaneboy » February 12th, 2018, 11:26 pm

Logorrhea wrote:
hugonaut wrote:The Six Nations is a western European competition.


So was Pro12 until this year. If they had money Georgia would have no problem getting in.

Good point. The Cheetahs/ Kings joining the Celtic League show a lot of things we think are not likely, become possible if money makes an entrance. Not likely to happen for Georgia yet though- on that account.


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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby Peg Leg » February 13th, 2018, 12:15 am

Logorrhea wrote:
hugonaut wrote:The Six Nations is a western European competition.


So was Pro12 until this year. If they had money Georgia would have no problem getting in.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby hugonaut » February 13th, 2018, 8:29 am

Logorrhea wrote:
hugonaut wrote:The Six Nations is a western European competition.


So was Pro12 until this year. If they had money Georgia would have no problem getting in.


There's no way to say this without sounding completely dismissive, so I'll just say it – you're wrong. The people who run the Six Nations have absolutely no interest in adding Georgia to the tournament. Nice enough fellas, just not the right type etc.

The Six Nations doesn't have any money worries, it's a massive money spinner. The Pro12/14 isn't. That explains why the league has two reject SA teams in it – because SuperSport are giving everyone half a million on top of what they were already getting.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby TerenureJim » February 13th, 2018, 9:21 am

hugonaut wrote:
Logorrhea wrote:
hugonaut wrote:The Six Nations is a western European competition.


So was Pro12 until this year. If they had money Georgia would have no problem getting in.


There's no way to say this without sounding completely dismissive, so I'll just say it – you're wrong. The people who run the Six Nations have absolutely no interest in adding Georgia to the tournament. Nice enough fellas, just not the right type etc.

The Six Nations doesn't have any money worries, it's a massive money spinner. The Pro12/14 isn't. That explains why the league has two reject SA teams in it – because SuperSport are giving everyone half a million on top of what they were already getting.


Ah but bringing it to seven teams would mean all sides having guaranteed 3 home games per tournament, allow for squad rotation and have more for to content. I'm all for Romania or Georgia joining.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby domhnallj » February 13th, 2018, 10:14 am

TerenureJim wrote:
Ah but bringing it to seven teams would mean all sides having guaranteed 3 home games per tournament, allow for squad rotation and have more for to content. I'm all for Romania or Georgia joining.


I can only imagine the state of the Nigels if such a thing came to pass.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby neiliog93 » February 13th, 2018, 10:30 am

You could include a rotating commitment to playing Georgia from the 6 Nations sides, with one playing them in June and one in November every year, with the Summer game being played in Tbilisi.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby ronk » February 15th, 2018, 1:13 am

TerenureJim wrote:
hugonaut wrote:
Logorrhea wrote:[quote="hugonaut"]The Six Nations is a western European competition.


So was Pro12 until this year. If they had money Georgia would have no problem getting in.


There's no way to say this without sounding completely dismissive, so I'll just say it – you're wrong. The people who run the Six Nations have absolutely no interest in adding Georgia to the tournament. Nice enough fellas, just not the right type etc.

The Six Nations doesn't have any money worries, it's a massive money spinner. The Pro12/14 isn't. That explains why the league has two reject SA teams in it – because SuperSport are giving everyone half a million on top of what they were already getting.


Ah but bringing it to seven teams would mean all sides having guaranteed 3 home games per tournament, allow for squad rotation and have more for to content. I'm all for Romania or Georgia joining.[/quote]

It would mean one team sitting around while everyone plays, even on the dramatic last weekend.
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