Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:15

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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby Oldschool » February 10th, 2018, 10:02 pm

ronk wrote:
TerenureJim wrote:Did we see proper defensive lapses or double bluffs of "system problems" allowed against Italy to lure stronger teams to try the same play but be ready and able for turnover ball as a result?


Lapses

Let's hope Gatties not wondering anymore!
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby suisse » February 11th, 2018, 6:10 am

Italy's continued involvement in this tournament is making a mockery of the event. Even if they are 'getting better' as some like to think, the gap to rest is getting so big now that is doesn't matter. They're absolutely dreadful and they offer nothing on the field apart from bloating individual player stats. We're at the stage now that anything less than a bonus point win is deemed a failure, no matter how hard the players and management try convince us otherwise.

Plenty of excuses are brought up as to why there shouldn't, at least, be a play-off for a relegation/promotion game. One is that it'll kill Italian rugby. But if they're not good enough to beat Georgia or Romania at home, then tough luck. Another argument is that Georgia and Romania are not very good either. But they'll never be if they don't get even a slice of the action Italy does. In the past 12 months, Italy have played Ireland twice, England twice, France, Scotland twice, Wales, Fiji twice, Australia, Argentina and south Africa. They normally play 8-10 games every year v tier 1 nations. That's about 40 in a world cup cycle. How many go Georgia and Romania get? Maybe 4? And none at home. Over 18 years, does anyone really believe Georgia or Romania would be as bad as I Italy are no we?
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby enby » February 11th, 2018, 9:42 am

suisse wrote:Italy's continued involvement in this tournament is making a mockery of the event. Even if they are 'getting better' as some like to think, the gap to rest is getting so big now that is doesn't matter. They're absolutely dreadful and they offer nothing on the field apart from bloating individual player stats. We're at the stage now that anything less than a bonus point win is deemed a failure, no matter how hard the players and management try convince us otherwise.

Plenty of excuses are brought up as to why there shouldn't, at least, be a play-off for a relegation/promotion game. One is that it'll kill Italian rugby. But if they're not good enough to beat Georgia or Romania at home, then tough luck. Another argument is that Georgia and Romania are not very good either. But they'll never be if they don't get even a slice of the action Italy does. In the past 12 months, Italy have played Ireland twice, England twice, France, Scotland twice, Wales, Fiji twice, Australia, Argentina and south Africa. They normally play 8-10 games every year v tier 1 nations. That's about 40 in a world cup cycle. How many go Georgia and Romania get? Maybe 4? And none at home. Over 18 years, does anyone really believe Georgia or Romania would be as bad as I Italy are no we?


Other than an outing to Rome every 2 years Italy offer nothing to the 6N. Their record against us is 1/18 and 0/19 against England. Poor oul Parisse is a shadow of his former greatness. However the couple of million the other 5 nations get from their home games against Italy will ensure the continuation of the turkey shoot. Of course Georgia should get a shot though February in Tiblisi is a far less appealing prospect than Rome on so many counts.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby TerenureJim » February 11th, 2018, 9:47 am

suisse wrote:Italy's continued involvement in this tournament is making a mockery of the event. Even if they are 'getting better' as some like to think, the gap to rest is getting so big now that is doesn't matter. They're absolutely dreadful and they offer nothing on the field apart from bloating individual player stats. We're at the stage now that anything less than a bonus point win is deemed a failure, no matter how hard the players and management try convince us otherwise.

Plenty of excuses are brought up as to why there shouldn't, at least, be a play-off for a relegation/promotion game. One is that it'll kill Italian rugby. But if they're not good enough to beat Georgia or Romania at home, then tough luck. Another argument is that Georgia and Romania are not very good either. But they'll never be if they don't get even a slice of the action Italy does. In the past 12 months, Italy have played Ireland twice, England twice, France, Scotland twice, Wales, Fiji twice, Australia, Argentina and south Africa. They normally play 8-10 games every year v tier 1 nations. That's about 40 in a world cup cycle. How many go Georgia and Romania get? Maybe 4? And none at home. Over 18 years, does anyone really believe Georgia or Romania would be as bad as I Italy are no we?


Romania and Georgia are nowhere near the level of Italy end of. Italy beat SA just over a year ago and while they lost yesterday still managed a record points haul against us, even England found them tough work last week. They have beaten everyone bar England in the tournament and even they have had lucky escapes.

The important Italian result at the weekend is the under 20 game where we had a scare from a 14 man side at donnybrook!

Also when was the last time you considered taking a trip to Tiblisi or Bucharest as opposed to Rome???

This argument is nonsense, it took France much longer to develop in the tournament, ditching Italy now would damage the tournament and international rugby as a whole.

Now if you want Georgia and/or Romania to join and grow the tournament I'm all for that being considered.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby Raydollard » February 11th, 2018, 10:31 am

Italy and record points. Says a lot about our underperforming crew. They were sleepwalking through the second half. Or maybe third in the world is an aberration.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby sunshiner1 » February 11th, 2018, 11:44 am

by TerenureJim » February 11th, 2018, 9:47 am

Romania and Georgia are nowhere near the level of Italy end of. Italy beat SA just over a year ago and while they lost yesterday still managed a record points haul against us, even England found them tough work last week. They have beaten everyone bar England in the tournament and even they have had lucky escapes.

The important Italian result at the weekend is the under 20 game where we had a scare from a 14 man side at donnybrook!

Also when was the last time you considered taking a trip to Tiblisi or Bucharest as opposed to Rome???

This argument is nonsense, it took France much longer to develop in the tournament, ditching Italy now would damage the tournament and international rugby as a whole.

Now if you want Georgia and/or Romania to join and grow the tournament I'm all for that being considered.


There is a BIG difference between Georgia and Romania. Georgia are a lot closer to Italy than you think. That said I agree with you wholeheartly. Italy need to be kept with maybe Georgia added to the tournament.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby Peg Leg » February 11th, 2018, 1:12 pm

Raydollard wrote:Italy and record points. Says a lot about our underperforming crew. They were sleepwalking through the second half. Or maybe third in the world is an aberration.
But joey and larmour were playing when we conceded those points.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby wixfjord » February 11th, 2018, 1:18 pm

I thought Joey's kicking looked better than normal yesterday. Got some great length.

The kicking from tee was heartening too. He seems to have a slightly different, more rigid style than before. Wonder has he been working on it.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby TerenureJim » February 11th, 2018, 1:25 pm

wixfjord wrote:I thought Joey's kicking looked better than normal yesterday. Got some great length.

The kicking from tee was heartening too. He seems to have a slightly different, more rigid style than before. Wonder has he been working on it.


Think Ritchie Murphy, ROG and possibly even Sexton have been working with him in terms of kicking practice based on what ROG mentioned on the TV3 Clubhouse show thurs
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby TerenureJim » February 11th, 2018, 1:28 pm

Raydollard wrote:Italy and record points. Says a lot about our underperforming crew. They were sleepwalking through the second half. Or maybe third in the world is an aberration.


We'd lost our defensive lynchpin in Henshaw and had several callow players on the pitch in Larmour and Carbury who will learn from this. My guess is while it rankles to gift points the coaching/leadership are taking each game as it comes and not looking at points difference at this stage
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby wixfjord » February 11th, 2018, 1:31 pm

TerenureJim wrote:
wixfjord wrote:I thought Joey's kicking looked better than normal yesterday. Got some great length.

The kicking from tee was heartening too. He seems to have a slightly different, more rigid style than before. Wonder has he been working on it.


Think Ritchie Murphy, ROG and possibly even Sexton have been working with him in terms of kicking practice based on what ROG mentioned on the TV3 Clubhouse show thurs


That's interesting. Again if I were Ross Byrne I'd be slightly pissed off at the attention Joey is getting, when he hasn't shown nearly as much at 10 as Byrne has for Leinster.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby artaneboy » February 11th, 2018, 1:37 pm

wixfjord wrote:
TerenureJim wrote:
wixfjord wrote:I thought Joey's kicking looked better than normal yesterday. Got some great length.

The kicking from tee was heartening too. He seems to have a slightly different, more rigid style than before. Wonder has he been working on it.


Think Ritchie Murphy, ROG and possibly even Sexton have been working with him in terms of kicking practice based on what ROG mentioned on the TV3 Clubhouse show thurs


That's interesting. Again if I were Ross Byrne I'd be slightly pissed off at the attention Joey is getting, when he hasn't shown nearly as much at 10 as Byrne has for Leinster.


Well now, using your own argument on Joey’s lack of a recent performance record for Club, we could turn that back on Ross. Byrne’s record at 10 in an international is not great compared to Carberry. Same logic.


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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby wixfjord » February 11th, 2018, 2:24 pm

artaneboy wrote:Well now, using your own argument on Joey’s lack of a recent performance record for Club, we could turn that back on Ross. Byrne’s record at 10 in an international is not great compared to Carberry. Same logic.


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Haha I don't think that's the same logic at all artaneboy :lol:

(You inserted the word 'recent' too btw!)
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby TerenureJim » February 11th, 2018, 2:50 pm

wixfjord wrote:
TerenureJim wrote:
wixfjord wrote:I thought Joey's kicking looked better than normal yesterday. Got some great length.

The kicking from tee was heartening too. He seems to have a slightly different, more rigid style than before. Wonder has he been working on it.


Think Ritchie Murphy, ROG and possibly even Sexton have been working with him in terms of kicking practice based on what ROG mentioned on the TV3 Clubhouse show thurs


That's interesting. Again if I were Ross Byrne I'd be slightly pissed off at the attention Joey is getting, when he hasn't shown nearly as much at 10 as Byrne has for Leinster.


Dunno if I were Ross Byrne I'd be happy enough having effectively been the starting 10 for Leinster in Europe and Pro14. He's building a body of work not press clippings
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby wixfjord » February 11th, 2018, 2:54 pm

Perhaps so. As we keep saying, Carbery looks like he has more potential, but Byrne has led us to some big victories from 10, and with exposure to Irish camp and guys like ROG and Richie he could be even better.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby artaneboy » February 11th, 2018, 4:03 pm

wixfjord wrote:
artaneboy wrote:Well now, using your own argument on Joey’s lack of a recent performance record for Club, we could turn that back on Ross. Byrne’s record at 10 in an international is not great compared to Carberry. Same logic.


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Haha I don't think that's the same logic at all artaneboy :lol:

(You inserted the word 'recent' too btw!)

Yeah the addition of “recent” makes all the difference. :-)



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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby wixfjord » February 11th, 2018, 4:35 pm

artaneboy wrote:
wixfjord wrote:
artaneboy wrote:Well now, using your own argument on Joey’s lack of a recent performance record for Club, we could turn that back on Ross. Byrne’s record at 10 in an international is not great compared to Carberry. Same logic.


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Haha I don't think that's the same logic at all artaneboy :lol:

(You inserted the word 'recent' too btw!)

Yeah the addition of “recent” makes all the difference. :-)



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Indeed it does. You mentioned the argument of 'Joey’s lack of a recent performance record for club'. I didn't say that.

You see Joey has been injured since before Xmas and has only come back. So it would be unfair and also impossible to judge his recent performances at 10 for Leinster since there are none. Likewise Byrne has none at test level. Impossible to compare right?

What we can compare easily is their respective performances at 10 over their career for Leinster. The evidence there, for a variety of reasons including injuries to Carbery and others, is that Byrne has outperformed Carbery and led us to some big wins.

Now you could say Carbery has a higher ceiling and maybe he does, but Byrne's record speaks for itself.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby artaneboy » February 11th, 2018, 4:51 pm

wixfjord wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
wixfjord wrote:[quote="artaneboy"]
Well now, using your own argument on Joey’s lack of a recent performance record for Club, we could turn that back on Ross. Byrne’s record at 10 in an international is not great compared to Carberry. Same logic.


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Haha I don't think that's the same logic at all artaneboy :lol:

(You inserted the word 'recent' too btw!)

Yeah the addition of “recent” makes all the difference. :-)



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Indeed it does. You mentioned the argument of 'Joey’s lack of a recent performance record for club'. I didn't say that.

You see Joey has been injured since before Xmas and has only come back. So it would be unfair and also impossible to judge his recent performances at 10 for Leinster since there are none. Likewise Byrne has none at test level. Impossible to compare right?

What we can compare easily is their respective performances at 10 over their career for Leinster. The evidence there, for a variety of reasons including injuries to Carbery and others, is that Byrne has outperformed Carbery and led us to some big wins.

Now you could say Carbery has a higher ceiling and maybe he does, but Byrne's record speaks for itself.[/quote]
:-) sure...



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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby Raydollard » February 11th, 2018, 7:14 pm

For Leinster’s sake he’d better have a higher ceiling than the extremely limited Byrne. Otherwise there in no decent 10 on the horizon.
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Re: Ireland Vs Italy, Lansdowne Road, Saturday 10th Feb @14:

Postby TerenureJim » February 11th, 2018, 8:13 pm

Raydollard wrote:For Leinster’s sake he’d better have a higher ceiling than the extremely limited Byrne. Otherwise there in no decent 10 on the horizon.


Yep clearly he limited us not like we've had one of our best ever group runs against some full on opposition in Europe with him as arguably the main 10?
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