Ireland v Wales 2018 6Ns

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Re: Ireland v Wales 2018 6Ns

Postby Oldschool » February 25th, 2018, 8:49 pm

wixfjord wrote:There is not a hope in hell Schmidt would, or should put a just returned Ringrose at 15 in a 6N game. Has he ever played there even in school?

+1 Even if he has played in school.
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Re: Ireland v Wales 2018 6Ns

Postby Oldschool » February 25th, 2018, 9:05 pm

On our defensive lapses.
We're being done on the outside mostly.
The experts are talking about players becoming disconnected.
Stockdale on more than one occasion has come in off the wing without any obvious justification.
Adam Byrne does the same thing. Both are inexperience however............
Trust may be part of the problem but is it beyond them to observe the golden rule.
"If in doubt stay out".
RK was in fact trying to cover for the bad positioning of other(s) and as a result was pulled out of position himself.
I vaguely remember one poster earlier in the week suggesting that Gattie might well try to do exactly that as a tactic.
It's been claimed that RK had a bad game by some. Don't think it was a simple as that. His tackle(sort of) on George North was an example of it.
He was trying to make a tackle somebody else should have been making. He managed to slow North down and probably prevented a try.
I wasn't at the match and TV3 hardly showed any wide angle footage that was any use.
I'd be interested to hear from anyone at the match what their opinion was as to what was going on with our defense out wide.
Was it very good Welsh play or poor positioning on our part or a combination of both.
In particular in relation to their tries.

As an aside what video information (post match) do the video analysis experts have available to them other than the TV footage?
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Re: Ireland v Wales 2018 6Ns

Postby artaneboy » February 25th, 2018, 9:20 pm

Oldschool wrote:
wixfjord wrote:There is not a hope in hell Schmidt would, or should put a just returned Ringrose at 15 in a 6N game. Has he ever played there even in school?

+1 Even if he has played in school.


Well, as I indicated, I would doubt it myself. But Gary has the skill set and will probably do time there for club and country yet.

As he’s not regarded as a 15 by Ireland, Carberry is not likely to replace him either, so Conway is probably the best alternative- if fit.

In any case I suppose we all know that Schmidt will pick Rob assuming he has one good leg left.


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Re: Ireland v Wales 2018 6Ns

Postby desperado » February 25th, 2018, 9:33 pm

Oldschool wrote:
wixfjord wrote:There is not a hope in hell Schmidt would, or should put a just returned Ringrose at 15 in a 6N game. Has he ever played there even in school?

+1 Even if he has played in school.

+1k. Even if he dreams about it. No way JS would consider it. I played FB; it's not just a position you slot into. I don't even think he'd consider Joey there (who has played 15). Rob was poor in some aspects yesterday; but excellent in others - same against France and it seems there's a widespread narrative to focus only on the poor play; like he loses 1 or 2 against Biggar and suddenly he's cr@p in the air. If Rob is to be dropped it's Conway to replace him. However, our defence out wide - particularly when we bring on our bench is a higher priority to sort.
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Re: Ireland v Wales 2018 6Ns

Postby kermischocolate » February 25th, 2018, 9:44 pm

Oldschool wrote:As an aside what video information (post match) do the video analysis experts have available to them other than the TV footage?


All of it.
They code it live but the broadcaster also gives them whatever footage they want from whatever camera angles they want.
Both teams get access to the same footage at the same time.
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Re: Ireland v Wales 2018 6Ns

Postby wixfjord » February 25th, 2018, 10:03 pm

artaneboy wrote:Well, as I indicated, I would doubt it myself. But Gary has the skill set and will probably do time there for club and country yet.




Hmm I'd disagree there. There are at least 6 players in the current Leinster squad that I'd have ahead of him at FB.

Not sure he has the skill set to fit into playing 15, certainly at test level. Not particularly good in the air or kicking. Can't say I've ever thought of him as a 15, nor have any coaches he has played under.

He can play 11 and 14 at a stretch, but I think 15 is a bridge too far and he will be a top notch 13 with a bit of 12 for his career.

As a nation we've done the 'shoehorn a back into 15' thing before, most notably with Luke and Earls, it hasn't worked then, no idea why it'd work now.

Conway would be a better choice imo, but I can't see Rob being moved at all.
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Re: Ireland v Wales 2018 6Ns

Postby BlueBlue » February 25th, 2018, 11:19 pm

The whole Kearney is sh!te narrative is a fan narrative, it's not even a media narrative. And most of these fans are Munster lads looking to get Zebo or one of their own in. My point is Joe Schmidt doesn't share that view. Why, because Kearney is playing just fine.
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Re: Ireland v Wales 2018 6Ns

Postby desperado » February 25th, 2018, 11:54 pm

wixfjord wrote:
artaneboy wrote:Well, as I indicated, I would doubt it myself. But Gary has the skill set and will probably do time there for club and country yet.




Hmm I'd disagree there. There are at least 6 players in the current Leinster squad that I'd have ahead of him at FB.

Not sure he has the skill set to fit into playing 15, certainly at test level. Not particularly good in the air or kicking. Can't say I've ever thought of him as a 15, nor have any coaches he has played under.

He can play 11 and 14 at a stretch, but I think 15 is a bridge too far and he will be a top notch 13 with a bit of 12 for his career.

As a nation we've done the 'shoehorn a back into 15' thing before, most notably with Luke and Earls, it hasn't worked then, no idea why it'd work now.

Conway would be a better choice imo, but I can't see Rob being moved at all.


so true; and Rob is doing just fine for now.
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Re: Ireland v Wales 2018 6Ns

Postby CiaranIrl » February 26th, 2018, 9:08 am

Is there anything to be said for trying Ringrose at Hooker? Does anyone know if he can throw in at the lineout?
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Re: Ireland v Wales 2018 6Ns

Postby TerenureJim » February 26th, 2018, 9:23 am

Here's hoping for some good news on injury updates this morning, granted Henshaw is gone but maybe with another two week break we might be looking at something like a full deck with Ringrose, S'OB, Furlong, Henderson starting to come back into availability even if not necessarily international match fittness in certain cases. Some interesting choices ahead.
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Re: Ireland v Wales 2018 6Ns

Postby offshorerules » February 26th, 2018, 1:09 pm

CiaranIrl wrote:Is there anything to be said for trying Ringrose at Hooker? Does anyone know if he can throw in at the lineout?


I heard he played tight head at under 7's in Willow.
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Re: Ireland v Wales 2018 6Ns

Postby olaf the fat » February 26th, 2018, 1:22 pm

Being exposed in the back thanks to superb attacking rugby by Wales is nothing new. What was new was JS's radar being so off - maybe a bit of a niggle hampering his kicking?- his game bar goal kicking was very good as always.

What did we leave behind 3 kickable penalties? and the tap and go was a result of the misses before hand - If we collected some of these points it would be a different story, of Wales would have behaved differently at the breakdown - leading to more trys for us!

This was really a situation that wont likely happen again, Richie Murphy is in for a cold week standing by with the kicking tees!

Scotland will ask different questions, England will try to bully and batter us - 2 cracking games coming up
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Re: Ireland v Wales 2018 6Ns

Postby artaneboy » February 26th, 2018, 9:14 pm

offshorerules wrote:
CiaranIrl wrote:Is there anything to be said for trying Ringrose at Hooker? Does anyone know if he can throw in at the lineout?


I heard he played tight head at under 7's in Willow.

I wouldn’t rule that man out of any position on the rugby field; but he could certainly play full back. He’s just not a Rob Kearney type of full back. Now Schmidt might not want to play that type of 15, but others will to very good effect.

Far from being brave in our willingness to try good players in different positions to get the best team on the field, we are excessively cautious- and there are real opportunity costs in that. Other nations, Australia, France for two (with respectively small and large playing populations) have had a lot of success from taking calculated risks. But with us, unless a player takes like a duck to water to a position, we are quick to get the ‘shepherds crook’ out.

Despite the efforts to excuse him, Rob’s not playing “just fine”; he’s playing okay to mediocre- and below his capacity. Those kicks lost to Biggar are not to be discounted on their own, especially in that part of the game he traditionally dominated- and he’s missed others over the three games. Like a goalkeeper in soccer, that really does count in the position. Now not all his missed tackles have been his initial fault- he had tried to cover for others on occasions to his visible cost, but some of them were his errors. We’ve leaked a lot of tries in three matches we have dominated, he’s been a factor in a couple of those.

But I expect Rob will be picked against Scotland- and to be fair, he usually rises to the challenge when his place is in danger: Chicago.


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Re: Ireland v Wales 2018 6Ns

Postby Ruckedtobits » February 27th, 2018, 12:13 am

Saturday passed in a blur of anxiety, mixed with dread (for Jonny's lost kicking boots) but topped with exhilaration at the denoument, as Stockdale scampered under the posts (and didn't risk a dive) and then relief, that Gatty's game plan and tactics hadn't deprived us again.

So WHAT did we do and HOW did we do it? Can we do it AGAIN against Scotland? SHOULD we do it again against Scotland?

Quite simply, it appears that our game plan was to deprive Wales of possession and get points by attacking their mid-field defence with hard carrying forwards and our ability to retain possession for multiple phases without mistakes. Yes, we attempted some attacking kick passes and some short-side triangles, but our primary attack mode was to drive them backwards by the volume and power of our ball carrying.

Stockdale's first try was a piece of sublime skill from JS, set up by Farrell and the forwards disconnecting their backline defence. The next three tries were the product of multi-phase effective attacking that few can match or defend. Stockdale's last try was caused more by the clock than any other factor.

Wales, or at least Anscombe, didn't have the confidence that his team could retain possession for the necessary time (and phases) to create a try scoring opportunity and he somewhat panicking by throwing a Hail Mary pass over Farrell in the hope that Shindler and / or Navidi could carry it 50m between them to score the winning try.

Our line-out was pretty good, as was our scrum. Our re-starts were a nice mixture of possession and position. Our breakdown work was almost exemplary. We didn't throw loose offloads. Our kicking was smart and opportune and generally very accurate. We screwed up for their first try but not tackling Shindler cleanly and thereby allowing them to make a line break. Did Bundee's knock-on, or knockdown, cause our defence to freeze? It certainly looked like it, but Davies took his try well and only a miracle tackle from Stockdale might have stopped him.

Their other two tries were the product of real pace on their left wing. In both instances Evans was put round the outside of our defence and had the pace to get a fatal line-break, where our cover defence mis-read the numbers in support and the correct defensive line. Partially lack of experience and partially lack of confidence in a team-mate that they could make a one-on-one tackle.

So, IMO, no screaming flaw in our defensive system was evident. Just individual errors from fatigued players.

Could we play the same way against Scotland? Probably we could. And if we did, it might perhaps surprise Townsend more than any other Game Plan. However, I don't believe we SHOULD play like that against this Scottish team, because of their particulat skill at the breakdown / tackle area. Barclay, Wilson, Watson, Gilchrist and McNally each have real skills in that area and will challenge any team trying to play possession attack. So multi-phase ball carrying attack against this pack is not recommended - certainly not as the primary mode of attacking play.

This could cause Joe Schmidt a dilemma in selection. The Squad selected on Saturday are possibly limited in one particular attribute - that of acceleration. Earls and Cronin and possibly Conor Murray, are the only players with real acceleration over 5-10 metres. Stockdale appears genuinely quick at full pace but he needs 10-15m to reack top-gear. Likewise Farrell and Sexton. None of our back-rows are dynamic in acceleration (JVdF is, but not available). The consequence of this shortcoming is that line-breaks beyond about 25m from the opposition line are unlikely to be supported and those line-breaks, unless by Earls or Stockdale, are unlikely to be try scoring in their own right.

So there is the challenge for the Irish Coach(es). Play the same fundamental game plan and take the risk of turnovers at breakdowns or find more pace or specifically more acceleration to enable Ireland to score from further out by creating line-breaking opportunities that can be finished off before the covering tackles arrive. Players like Ringrose, Conway and / or Larmour may appear to be real candidates if this thinking is mirrored in Carton House.

One thing is fairly certain. The presence of Sammy Arnold would suggest that the Irish Squad teaining will have a player with the acceleration and general physique of Huw Jones, to practice against over the next few days. Keep Jones quite and let Sexton plan for Finn Russell and you nullify two of the major Scottisk threats.

Lots to think about in Carton House and certainly not as straightforward as the Gatty Challenge
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Re: Ireland v Wales 2018 6Ns

Postby olaf the fat » February 27th, 2018, 10:49 am

Warren G is brilliant at picking apart a strong team and either exposing their weakness or limiting the strenghts. Having Porter, Ryan, Leavy, Stockdale, Farrell and Aki left him lost on how we were going to play. Every cloud?
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Re: Ireland v Wales 2018 6Ns

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » February 28th, 2018, 12:44 pm

Using the snow as an excuse to watch this again.

Aki is a totally different player when he's defending in a full line compared to when it's just the backs and he has more space to cover/decisions to make. In a full line he makes great reads and hits ferociously, but when he's more exposed he hesitates and makes terrible decisions. His timing off Sexton isn't great either, but it's early days for them as a combination. I think for Connacht he's the guy who sets the tempo so others dance to his tune, but with Ireland it's Murray or Sexton calling the shots so when he's eager to run a line the others are waiting for the right time and that means they aren't in sync.

The way we mixed up our attack really was great. We identified opportunities around the ruck way better than we usually do. We were really quick to attack any space that presented itself and showed great variety in doing so which meant we always kept Wales on the back foot.

Ryan is a freak in contact. Even when he's off balance going into a ruck he can use his frame and power to knock someone back and secure the ball perfectly. When he carries he can twist out of the tackle, put his head down and power through, or use his feet to side step the defender, he just always finds a way to make ground. Porter's work at the breakdown was brilliant too. I think anyone saying that he just had a solid game is playing down his performance quite a bit.

For all the criticism POM gets he was really good too. Messed up a restart but apart from that he won a penalty, rucked superbly, was quick to step in at 9 when needed, covered for Earls really well at one stage when we were missing players in the back field, and carried a lot.
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