England v 6 Nations Champions 2018 Twickenham March 17

[leinsterforever]

Some interesting stuff here from the1014. This is the type of stuff I was talking about re their clearouts

Argument that the French were contesting illegally as they were 'beaten by the ruck'?

[leinsterforever]

It's funny how it's difficult to do well three seasons in a row. England are in a bit of trough at the moment - a bit like Leinster in 2013 in the HC after the back-to-back wins, or Ireland in 2016 after the successes of 2014 and 2015. Saracens faltered a bit this season as well after being so dominant for a two-year period.

Still could be very tough. I think 1948 and 1972 are the only years away wins to both France and England were achieved.

[TerenureJim]

Leinster 2013 were only just about put out out by Clermont 2013 who were a team we'd heaped defeats on at crucial stages in a few campaigns by then, if we didn't have Clermont in our group that year I'd have fancied our chances to win.

Similar to Leinster 2010, if Sexton is fit we possibly win that semi in Toulouse.

[paddyor]

Some interesting stuff here from the1014. This is the type of stuff I was talking about re their clearouts

Argument that the French were contesting illegally as they were 'beaten by the ruck'?

Actually in that situation, I think they're all out of the ruck, so free to compete. I may have misinterpreted that, will see if I can find it.

[Dave Cahill]

Leinster 2013 were only just about put out out by Clermont 2013 who were a team we'd heaped defeats on at crucial stages in a few campaigns by then, if we didn't have Clermont in our group that year I'd have fancied our chances to win.

Similar to Leinster 2010, if Sexton is fit we possibly win that semi in Toulouse.

We were well off the pace in 2013. There were more factors than just having Clermont in our group. As well as losing home and away to Clermont we barely scraped past Exeter at home (we were lucky to win in fact) and didn't pick up a bonus point away to a poor Scarlets side, didn't score enough tries, our outhalf and coach had their heads turned, Wayne Barnes, the Irish camps were an unwelcome and poisonously atmosphered distraction.

[simonokeeffe]

Via Alex Lowes on twitter but the saffer touch judge for Saturday's game reffed an English training session this week

does not seem Koshir

[Dave Cahill]

Via Alex Lowes on twitter but the saffer touch judge for Saturday's game reffed an English training session this week

does not seem Koshir

yeah, ROC has the same story in the Indo. I have no doubt whatsoever that this won't affect the AR on saturday, but for the sake of optics perhaps a quick switcheroo will be needed.

[simonokeeffe]

Via Alex Lowes on twitter but the saffer touch judge for Saturday's game reffed an English training session this week

does not seem Koshir

yeah, ROC has the same story in the Indo. I have no doubt whatsoever that this won't affect the AR on saturday, but for the sake of optics perhaps a quick switcheroo will be needed.

The optics are gick alright

[Grumpy Old Man]

Via Alex Lowes on twitter but the saffer touch judge for Saturday's game reffed an English training session this week

does not seem Koshir

yeah, ROC has the same story in the Indo. I have no doubt whatsoever that this won't affect the AR on saturday, but for the sake of optics perhaps a quick switcheroo will be needed.

The optics are gick alright

He'll have to be especially harsh on England now to prove he isn't biased!

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I'm trying to think of illegal things we do that they may have drawn his attention to. The one thing I can think of is that at times when we leech onto the ball carrier the supporting player actually gets ahead of the carrier, think we've been lucky to get away with it, especially against Wales.

[paddyor]

I'm trying to think of illegal things we do that they may have drawn his attention to. The one thing I can think of is that at times when we leech onto the ball carrier the supporting player actually gets ahead of the carrier, think we've been lucky to get away with it, especially against Wales.

If you mean the Leavy try, the first offence was Biggar tackling Best without the ball. Similar to Cronins try (Barnes indicated a penalty), refs seem to prefer to not award cynical play in the act of scoring. The alternative being PT or peno YC.

I could see us being in a bit of trouble wrt supporting our weight at the breakdown/going off our feet. Everyone seems to be at that but a crack down would nobble a team that likes to own the pill.

[Fan with smartphone]

Some interesting stuff here from the1014. This is the type of stuff I was talking about re their clearouts

Argument that the French were contesting illegally as they were 'beaten by the ruck'?

You could argue that, but I don’t think many referees would blow it at moment. Moments like this mean England will be going all guns blazing at ruck time this weekend. We will have to deal with that agression, but we are better technically and in decision making. Both are lacking by England in the clip above. In terms of technique they are both too high to best utilise their size and power. Decision making - Haskell needs to look after his side of the ruck. Two men in here is acceptable, but he has to stay on his side, probably just use one arm and use the other arm to sweep away any lingering ruck inspectors. It’s Haskell deciding to fold in to do a job that Itoje could manage on his own that causes a problem. That means they don’t take out any lingering defenders and allows free access to the ball. Like I say, England will be hugely aggressive at the ruck this week. Expect them to clean out anything that moves, but it’s a game of technique, decisions and skill in how you use that agression, size and strength. Hopefully the referees are sharp on going off feet/sealing and, on the other side of the ball, illegal slowing. England, to be fair, did get a raw deal at times with illegal slowing by France (as did we), so expect their attack to be better, especially if they pick Slade. If the referee is letting agression go, hopefully we deal with it and the ref better than against New Zealand after Chicago.

It’s worth keeping a close eye on the trends in how the breakdown is being refereed for the future though. Nigel tends to let it go, but the next generation are not so much like that and I’ve been looking at the 7s circuit lately where there have been interesting developments in that the attacking teams are getting whistled a lot more often than previously and for the exact reason you mention paddyor. It’s ok when the 1st attacking player to a ruck binds to the player on the ground, but if he puts hands beyond that onto the floor at all - ping. For defensive sides they are having to accept a ruck is over sooner than they previously would have too. It was more noticeable in the Vegas series and seemed to have relaxed a bit in Vancouver, but the interprétation might be on that direction of travel. I think Schmidt’s commitment to playing by the rules, technique and to discipline means we are a large part of the way there already, should more literal and stringent interpretation be applied like that. We hold onto the ball a lot paddyor, but do we often see our men at attacking rucks with hands on the ground? We rarely leave gaps from our ball carrier, and have good presentation on the ground, so we are good at establishing rucks early. We clean efficiently, maybe Jones would give out about us going beyond the ruck LRIP, or our fight on the ground before presenting the ball, but it’d take a right pernickety referee to whistle an attacking team for that - they tend to let it go. We try to be as clean as we possibly can be when defending. I can never be too optimistic about Twickenham. It’s a ridiculously difficult place to go and win, with too many painful defeats in my youth. But, y’know, we have a pretty good rugby team. Going to be some occasion.

[Oldschool]

Think all the points been made re ref, af and potential illegality are all valid.
On the same theme this is a big game in global rugby terms.
Not as big as a RWC final obviously or even the hoped for GS showdown but big just the same.
The occasion could get to the ref and/or some of the officials
Don't think that this will happen however the officials could well decide to make sure that the game remains in the balance to the death.
A good example of this happening was the 2003 RWC final between England and Australia when the ref made sure that England's total dominance didn't result in a cakewalk and as a result damp squib.
In paranoia we trust.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I'm trying to think of illegal things we do that they may have drawn his attention to. The one thing I can think of is that at times when we leech onto the ball carrier the supporting player actually gets ahead of the carrier, think we've been lucky to get away with it, especially against Wales.

If you mean the Leavy try, the first offence was Biggar tackling Best without the ball. Similar to Cronins try (Barnes indicated a penalty), refs seem to prefer to not award cynical play in the act of scoring. The alternative being PT or peno YC.

I could see us being in a bit of trouble wrt supporting our weight at the breakdown/going off our feet. Everyone seems to be at that but a crack down would nobble a team that likes to own the pill.

I wasn't really thinking of specific incidents, we do it all the time.

[wixfjord]

One area I’d be asking them to crack down on if I were England is our jackals not supporting their weight and leaning on their arms. Both Leavy and particuarly POM are always very borderline in thie area.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

One area I’d be asking them to crack down on if I were England is our jackals not supporting their weight and leaning on their arms. Both Leavy and particuarly POM are always very borderline in thie area.

True. Leavy also has a habit of wrapping his arms around the man and not the ball, some refs will give penalties to him for that and some won't.

Looking at that clip again, Itoje looks wiped out. I know it's the 73rd minute but he really struggles to clear out the French player, and is then really slow to get back to his feet. It was a tough game so no surprise that he wouldn't be flying at that stage, and maybe there had been a lot of phases before that, but it just seems like a total contrast to his performances last year, he looks underpowered and jaded. Now that I've said that, he'll probably find his form on Saturday or at the Aviva.

[Dave Cahill]

Weather is predicted to be cold (3º) windy and partly cloudy with a 10% chance of rain

[Sionnach]

http://www.the42.ie/ireland-six-nations ... 3-Mar2018/

Saturday's assistant referee van der Westhuizen involved in England training.

Not a great look, in my opinion. Leaves him wide open to accusations, and assuming he is paid for his time I think it's a fairly clear conflict of interests.

EDIT: Sorry, seen this was posted earlier. Didn't notice on first scan.

[Dave Cahill]

Dearie me Edward, dearie me. The guy you were joking with might have been part Irish, but dearie me.

[matt]

Just listened to Eddie Jones talking about the "scummy Irish" and "sh!t country Wales". He sure knows how to win friends and influence people.

I would think Ireland will play the video in the dressing room on Saturday just to fire up the lads a bit more!