Summer tour to Australia

[Logorrhea]

I like the selection. I'm not sure we'll win with it, but it'll be good to see how the midfield can cope second time round but with Sexton at 10.

Front 5 still looks solid and looking forward to seeing Conan in action.

[Dave Cahill]

The team FEELS wrong to me but realistically isn't the only major issue that POM is at 7? Admittedly that could potentially be a major issue given who we're up against but the rest of the team is fine on paper. I'm worried about fatigue though, big ask for Rob, CJ, Ryan, and Furlong (think he played until late on last week by his standards and obviously put in a huge shift) to go again after a long season.

POM at 7 actually feels like a World Cup selection to me. I've been saying for a while that one of things we could do with working on is to move guys out of position the odd time in case it's needed in a World Cup and maybe that formed part of the thinking as to why he got the nod ahead of Jordi. With that in mind, I would have started Marmion for this one too. I know it's a reasonably important series but Murray shouldn't have started every game IMO.

Not shocked that Cronin is starting but delighted for him and he really needs a big game after how the other guys played.

I can't call this at all, wouldn't surprise me if the lack of a 7 destroyed us or if we just beat them up and won ugly. I would guess they'll get more joy at the breakdown regardless of who wins the battle overall, so set piece will be more important than last week and if Cronin maintains our solidity there then that'll be a positive. I'm hoping we see a better performance from the centres than we did in the first game. We're well set up to put lots of pressure on Phipps regardless of not having a 7, think we can get some joy there.

I'm really curious as to how Australia adapt after last week. They really need to get Folau on the ball, he's been wasted so far. I'm sure they'll try and target Robbie after his mistakes in the first test, but my guess is that that would be a grave error on their part.

-

I think Joe was really clever about how he used POM in the second test - a lot like he used him in the 2014 6 Nations. He gave him one job to do - forget about everything else and just deal with the breakdown. Don't worry about tackles, don't worry about carrying, don't worry about the lineout (we don't really put a flier up on opposition ball anyways, which would be an ideal use for POM) - just get to that breakdown and counteract the effects of Pooper. And, in fairness to POM, he did it really well. I actually think its quite hard to do as, for example, it goes against every instinct you have learned from when you started rugby to ignore a tackle opportunity because you have to be available to be second man in.

[leinsterforever]

Its interesting that Schmidt mentions that Byrne has been covering 12 in training. Is he thinking of taking three specialist outhalves as well as three specialist scrumhalves (and just the three centres) to the world cup?

[ronk]

In the first test I worried that we were giving Oz a free reign at the breakdown. Without a recognised 7 we are running the same risk, but we do have the option to change up with subs.

[Hippo]

Unhappy with the situation at 12 and 13 but of course it's injury affected. I hope it's not a decisive factor.

[Lar]

I didn't know Ringrose was even carrying a knock. Has it been announced what the injury is?

[Oldschool]

The team FEELS wrong to me but realistically isn't the only major issue that POM is at 7? Admittedly that could potentially be a major issue given who we're up against but the rest of the team is fine on paper. I'm worried about fatigue though, big ask for Rob, CJ, Ryan, and Furlong (think he played until late on last week by his standards and obviously put in a huge shift) to go again after a long season.

POM at 7 actually feels like a World Cup selection to me. I've been saying for a while that one of things we could do with working on is to move guys out of position the odd time in case it's needed in a World Cup and maybe that formed part of the thinking as to why he got the nod ahead of Jordi. With that in mind, I would have started Marmion for this one too. I know it's a reasonably important series but Murray shouldn't have started every game IMO.

Not shocked that Cronin is starting but delighted for him and he really needs a big game after how the other guys played.

I can't call this at all, wouldn't surprise me if the lack of a 7 destroyed us or if we just beat them up and won ugly. I would guess they'll get more joy at the breakdown regardless of who wins the battle overall, so set piece will be more important than last week and if Cronin maintains our solidity there then that'll be a positive. I'm hoping we see a better performance from the centres than we did in the first game. We're well set up to put lots of pressure on Phipps regardless of not having a 7, think we can get some joy there.

I'm really curious as to how Australia adapt after last week. They really need to get Folau on the ball, he's been wasted so far. I'm sure they'll try and target Robbie after his mistakes in the first test, but my guess is that that would be a grave error on their part.

-

I think Joe was really clever about how he used POM in the second test - a lot like he used him in the 2014 6 Nations. He gave him one job to do - forget about everything else and just deal with the breakdown. Don't worry about tackles, don't worry about carrying, don't worry about the lineout (we don't really put a flier up on opposition ball anyways, which would be an ideal use for POM) - just get to that breakdown and counteract the effects of Pooper. And, in fairness to POM, he did it really well. I actually think its quite hard to do as, for example, it goes against every instinct you have learned from when you started rugby to ignore a tackle opportunity because you have to be available to be second man in.

POM has shown an ability over the years to adopt a new role. It's a real talent.

[Oldschool]

I didn't know Ringrose was even carrying a knock. Has it been announced what the injury is?

Jet lag and local conditions were a factor in the first test, Henshaw, based on his 2nd test performance is likely to be much more up to the pace of the game.

[artaneboy]

Or it could simply be that Schmidt is rotating the guys in and out. Three tests, three hookers, everyone gets a start and a bench. We won't actually know until the third test. If Cronin doesn't get a start - then it might be odd.

Great call Dave.

Yeah- except for Joe’s response on what he wanted from Cronin, “We’d love to see him do very well in the set-pieces.” To us here who are all Schmidt-readers, that’s not exactly a ringing endorsement of Sean’s work to date there!

It’s harsh in my opinion- but it looks like he/ they see Cronin as being weaker than the alternatives in the scrum.

Hope he goes really well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[backrower8]

Leaving aside lack of any development of options at 9 & 15, my concerns for this game are lack of balance in the back-row and centre AND a big recurring, systemic issue.

We play so hard and aggressively in order to bludgeon our way to tries that it takes an enormous toll on our squad, both in individual games and over a run of week-to-week matches just like now and at RWC.

After 2 games the injury count has gone up and we are also seeing the side fade in the last 10 minutes of games when teams like Wales, England and Australia all manage to peg us back to one score games, or near to that, when we should be two scores clear and home and hosed. Joe's style is god for 70 minutes but you would nead 10 subs to be sure of it yielding a RWC semi and more.

Finally, I wouldn't be surprised if Healy is a late withdrawal. #DrJoesShennanigans

[paddyor]

Agree with you on the above points. Also add in when Earls has the try disallowed you have a good case for a Peno try as Foley has him round the neck as he is diving for the line. Cant help but thing Nigel would have got this one right

2 Similar situations and the decisions and each time were straight yellows to us and nothing to them

I thought Earls wriggled into the high tackle.

Absolutely not re Nige. In fact the way the game was reffed is probably in large part due to Niges style. It's about materiality and managing the spectacle. Remember during the 6N he called England back off on an intercept to penalise Launchbury for slowing the ball having not indicated a peno. Or when he coached the French player to roll out of the way having given a peno straight away to Aki earlier in the game. Or when he didn't give a peno to Kearney for being tackled off the ball because we got it back anyway. I suspect if the French had got the ball and scored he'd have called it back.

My point is that whether you agree with the calls or not, it's how a lot of refs would have reffed them. Especially Nige "the Spectacle" Owens.

[Oldschoolsocks]

The team FEELS wrong to me but realistically isn't the only major issue that POM is at 7? Admittedly that could potentially be a major issue given who we're up against but the rest of the team is fine on paper. I'm worried about fatigue though, big ask for Rob, CJ, Ryan, and Furlong (think he played until late on last week by his standards and obviously put in a huge shift) to go again after a long season.

POM at 7 actually feels like a World Cup selection to me. I've been saying for a while that one of things we could do with working on is to move guys out of position the odd time in case it's needed in a World Cup and maybe that formed part of the thinking as to why he got the nod ahead of Jordi. With that in mind, I would have started Marmion for this one too. I know it's a reasonably important series but Murray shouldn't have started every game IMO.

Not shocked that Cronin is starting but delighted for him and he really needs a big game after how the other guys played.

I can't call this at all, wouldn't surprise me if the lack of a 7 destroyed us or if we just beat them up and won ugly. I would guess they'll get more joy at the breakdown regardless of who wins the battle overall, so set piece will be more important than last week and if Cronin maintains our solidity there then that'll be a positive. I'm hoping we see a better performance from the centres than we did in the first game. We're well set up to put lots of pressure on Phipps regardless of not having a 7, think we can get some joy there.

I'm really curious as to how Australia adapt after last week. They really need to get Folau on the ball, he's been wasted so far. I'm sure they'll try and target Robbie after his mistakes in the first test, but my guess is that that would be a grave error on their part.

-

I think Joe was really clever about how he used POM in the second test - a lot like he used him in the 2014 6 Nations. He gave him one job to do - forget about everything else and just deal with the breakdown. Don't worry about tackles, don't worry about carrying, don't worry about the lineout (we don't really put a flier up on opposition ball anyways, which would be an ideal use for POM) - just get to that breakdown and counteract the effects of Pooper. And, in fairness to POM, he did it really well. I actually think its quite hard to do as, for example, it goes against every instinct you have learned from when you started rugby to ignore a tackle opportunity because you have to be available to be second man in.

just a small point i know, but was POM not used at least twice or three times on our own lineout and make at least on steal off theirs?

[Laighin Break]

My issue with the referring last Saturday was quite simple, consistency, YC for Healy (no team warning from ref at that point) but no YC for Hooper prior to Furlong's try (2 team warning from ref at that point). YC to Jack but not YC to Foley for preventing a breakaway with a deliberate knock on. But my biggest issue was the the Oz knock on at 39:57 on the clock, this should have seen us with an attacking scrum inside their 22 just to the left of the posts, how the ref saw fit to blow up for half time is incredible, especially when you consider how efficient Ireland have been at scoring just prior to half time during the 6Ns and the momentum we had at that point. This is something Joe raised after the game.

It was one of the most inconsistent reffing performances I've seen in a long time, thankfully we've a NH ref this weekend.

Not sure how the clock was working on Saturday but what we see on the TV isn't always the official time - it's often someone in the caravan around back stopping and starting the clock when the ref says so.
I did the clock one time for a non-Irish channel, and all I had to do was watch the RTÉ feed and stop and start whenever they did. I got a bit carried away when Ireland scored a try and ended up a good minute or so ahead

[Dave Cahill]

yeah, but its not a tactic, they were likely to be 'on the field' reads. I'm talking about opposition throws above btw

If POM was on the pitch on my team I'd be throwing him up at the front of pretty much every opposition lineout, the way ST used to with Nyanga. If you take front ball and flat middle ball off the table it really limits what the opposition can do with their lineout

[desperado]

yeah, but its not a tactic, they were likely to be 'on the field' reads. I'm talking about opposition throws above btw

If POM was on the pitch on my team I'd be throwing him up at the front of pretty much every opposition lineout, the way ST used to with Nyanga. If you take front ball and flat middle ball off the table it really limits what the opposition can do with their lineout

100% agree. And if he's not actually going to steal ball directly; he has in the past gotten into hookers headspace with resultant wobblies on any throw. He certainly should be launched at the front for a very large percentage of opposition defensive lineouts, and 100% in their 22.


Edit: meant to say on the opposition throw in their 22.

[backrower8]

yeah, but its not a tactic, they were likely to be 'on the field' reads. I'm talking about opposition throws above btw

If POM was on the pitch on my team I'd be throwing him up at the front of pretty much every opposition lineout, the way ST used to with Nyanga. If you take front ball and flat middle ball off the table it really limits what the opposition can do with their lineout

100% agree. And if he's not actually going to steal ball directly; he has in the past gotten into hookers headspace with resultant wobblies on any throw. He certainly should be launched at the front for a very large percentage of defensive lineouts, and 100% in their 22.

My instinct agrees, so why don't they? Most likely because they see the percentage gain of a hit or miss launch of POM as being less beneficial than organising a strong maul defence in an area of the game where the attacking centipede/forward pack is imbued with a ridiculous set of unfair advantages that makes you wonder why teams don't just try and maul over from every lineout they take!!

[ronk]

Development wise Joe has answered a few questions.

He’s tried out different hookers and has something to work with, but hasn’t reduced his options. Depth looks a tiny bit better at tighthead. Lock is great but early to call Beirne. Big experiment in the backrow this weekend.

9 is still going to be Murray but the chasing pack has been rotated. A 3rd choice outhalf is being tried. Fist choice centers are starting to take shape, Ringrose + Aki/Henshaw. 4 wingers all playing well and Rob’s form continues.

15 has seen 2 of the top 3 leaving, but it was important to build around Rob Kearney while he’s back from his injury malaise.

Next options have been playing wing and will ever in line for provincial time at 15. Made sense to wait for that to happen.

If this experimental backrow can beat Oz, then it’s an option against anyone. If not, then at least it’s an option for deciding the backrow mix at the RWC.

[desperado]

yeah, but its not a tactic, they were likely to be 'on the field' reads. I'm talking about opposition throws above btw

If POM was on the pitch on my team I'd be throwing him up at the front of pretty much every opposition lineout, the way ST used to with Nyanga. If you take front ball and flat middle ball off the table it really limits what the opposition can do with their lineout

100% agree. And if he's not actually going to steal ball directly; he has in the past gotten into hookers headspace with resultant wobblies on any throw. He certainly should be launched at the front for a very large percentage of defensive lineouts, and 100% in their 22.

My instinct agrees, so why don't they? Most likely because they see the percentage gain of a hit or miss launch of POM as being less beneficial than organising a strong maul defence in an area of the game where the attacking centipede/forward pack is imbued with a ridiculous set of unfair advantages that makes you wonder why teams don't just try and maul over from every lineout they take!!

My mistake; meant oppostion defensive lineouts in their 22

[paddyor]

Leaving aside lack of any development of options at 9 & 15, my concerns for this game are lack of balance in the back-row and centre AND a big recurring, systemic issue.

We play so hard and aggressively in order to bludgeon our way to tries that it takes an enormous toll on our squad, both in individual games and over a run of week-to-week matches just like now and at RWC.

After 2 games the injury count has gone up and we are also seeing the side fade in the last 10 minutes of games when teams like Wales, England and Australia all manage to peg us back to one score games, or near to that, when we should be two scores clear and home and hosed. Joe's style is god for 70 minutes but you would nead 10 subs to be sure of it yielding a RWC semi and more.

Finally, I wouldn't be surprised if Healy is a late withdrawal. #DrJoesShennanigans

I'm not sure that's true. IIRC in the 2015 6 nations we had next to no major injuries right up until before the France game when Payne was ruled out with a broken toe nad then bang 3 of our starters gone topped off with 1 suspended. This year in the 6n

Van der Flier IIRC just stepped awkwardly trying to catch a bad offload
Farrell did his cruciate in training
Furlong hamstring in a game where we checked the ball about regularly
Can't remember Henderson in Italy game but it wasn't that bad as he was back for Scotland IIRC
Henshaw did his shoulder falling awkwardly for a try
Did Aki get knocked out vs England?

This tour
Earls got a bang to the head
Conway got injured in the act of scoring
Leavy and Henderson came into the series off injuries which have since resurfaced. Aki the same last week according to Schmidt.
Healy seemed to twist his Knee being cleared out

Aussies have had
Genia break his arm innocously
Coleman get sparked out trying to tackle Kearney
Timu is out this week thru injury

Aside from the 2 lads coming in with injuries it's about even. I don't think you can really say there's a connection to our style of play between all of them.

I think we did look tired vs Wales and in the first test vs the Australians (think that was humidity as much as anything). But not England or Australia last weekend. In both games we had a 12+ lead and they had to make something happen. Some of the defense up until McGraths YC was manic.

[ronk]

The France game in 2015 was brutal. I wondered how anyone could play a week later.

Injuries have been hard this year. Since 2017 6N Ireland have lost Heaslip, Payne, Trimble, Zebo, D Ryan, Jackson to retirement/exile. I’d estimate that zero of them were losses due to flogging by the international coach.

We play hard but we focus on accuracy and that lessons the physical burden. I don’t think Joe overburdens the players, I think he’s good on that front.