Summer tour to Australia

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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby hugonaut » July 1st, 2018, 5:22 pm

paddyor wrote:
bertlim wrote:
paddyor wrote:Rumour on Planet Rugby that Cronin got wasted on the flight home and started a fight with Marmion or Henshaw. International career is over.


Bear in mind there is literally no evidence of this happening other than the original post

Get the impression a few have heard it.


People make up deadly rumours about the Irish team though, especially when they're away from home. D'you remember all the rumours during RWC07? I got an email with about 45-50 quality rumours on it, all of them believable.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby paddyor » July 1st, 2018, 5:45 pm

Yeah I heard lots of rumours about zebo when Schmidt wouldnt pick him. This isn't the first rumour off this type with Cronin. I suppose we'll find out if his Ireland career is over.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Dave Cahill » July 1st, 2018, 5:53 pm

hugonaut wrote:
People make up deadly rumours about the Irish team though, especially when they're away from home. D'you remember all the rumours during RWC07? I got an email with about 45-50 quality rumours on it, all of them believable.
I'm still waiting for the exposè Franno promised about what really happened in 07
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby hugonaut » July 1st, 2018, 6:46 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
hugonaut wrote:
People make up deadly rumours about the Irish team though, especially when they're away from home. D'you remember all the rumours during RWC07? I got an email with about 45-50 quality rumours on it, all of them believable.
I'm still waiting for the exposè Franno promised about what really happened in 07


Franno.

There's been a lot of autobiographies written since then, and nobody has broken omerta. I think what happened was what the players say happened – too much time in Spala, not enough games, bad vibes in the camp – and what the players don't say happened, i.e. a big dose of crumbling under expectation.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Dave Cahill » July 1st, 2018, 7:37 pm

hugonaut wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:
hugonaut wrote:
People make up deadly rumours about the Irish team though, especially when they're away from home. D'you remember all the rumours during RWC07? I got an email with about 45-50 quality rumours on it, all of them believable.
I'm still waiting for the exposè Franno promised about what really happened in 07


Franno.

There's been a lot of autobiographies written since then, and nobody has broken omerta. I think what happened was what the players say happened – too much time in Spala, not enough games, bad vibes in the camp – and what the players don't say happened, i.e. a big dose of crumbling under expectation.
Oh I don't doubt that - I just remember the rumours flying around and Franno's opportunism.

My policy is never believe rumours like this unless I know the source and their motivation
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby hugonaut » July 2nd, 2018, 1:54 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
My policy is never believe rumours like this unless I know the source and their motivation


I agree. There are also things that are/were very, very close to happening which don't/didn't happen at the very last minute – more to do with players leaving/moving than anything scurrilous. People can tell you things in good faith but the next day they're proved wrong.

It was very interesting that Pat McCarry broke the Joe Tomane news a good few weeks before anybody else. No obvious link between him and Tomane, Montpellier, Australian or French sources. Really good scoop from him. O'Reilly's scoop on Carbery was also sharp [albeit bad news for us].
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby neiliog93 » July 2nd, 2018, 3:09 pm

hugonaut wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:
My policy is never believe rumours like this unless I know the source and their motivation


I agree. There are also things that are/were very, very close to happening which don't/didn't happen at the very last minute – more to do with players leaving/moving than anything scurrilous. People can tell you things in good faith but the next day they're proved wrong.

It was very interesting that Pat McCarry broke the Joe Tomane news a good few weeks before anybody else. No obvious link between him and Tomane, Montpellier, Australian or French sources. Really good scoop from him. O'Reilly's scoop on Carbery was also sharp [albeit bad news for us].


O'Reilly is very good at getting scoops in the Sunday Times, whatever else you say of him.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby CiaranIrl » July 2nd, 2018, 3:43 pm

neiliog93 wrote:
hugonaut wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:
My policy is never believe rumours like this unless I know the source and their motivation


I agree. There are also things that are/were very, very close to happening which don't/didn't happen at the very last minute – more to do with players leaving/moving than anything scurrilous. People can tell you things in good faith but the next day they're proved wrong.

It was very interesting that Pat McCarry broke the Joe Tomane news a good few weeks before anybody else. No obvious link between him and Tomane, Montpellier, Australian or French sources. Really good scoop from him. O'Reilly's scoop on Carbery was also sharp [albeit bad news for us].


O'Reilly is very good at getting scoops in the Sunday Times, whatever else you say of him.


Anyone see the little article he had about Dr. Phil in the ST yesterday? Said Girve was only offered a one year deal a year ago, as Leinster "wanted to freshen up the coaching team". Basically suggesting Girve was gently encouraged to move on. Isa was lined up ahead ago, and when he decided to move home, they went to the market.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby dropkick » July 2nd, 2018, 8:10 pm

CiaranIrl wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:
hugonaut wrote:I agree. There are also things that are/were very, very close to happening which don't/didn't happen at the very last minute – more to do with players leaving/moving than anything scurrilous. People can tell you things in good faith but the next day they're proved wrong.

It was very interesting that Pat McCarry broke the Joe Tomane news a good few weeks before anybody else. No obvious link between him and Tomane, Montpellier, Australian or French sources. Really good scoop from him. O'Reilly's scoop on Carbery was also sharp [albeit bad news for us].


O'Reilly is very good at getting scoops in the Sunday Times, whatever else you say of him.


Anyone see the little article he had about Dr. Phil in the ST yesterday? Said Girve was only offered a one year deal a year ago, as Leinster "wanted to freshen up the coaching team". Basically suggesting Girve was gently encouraged to move on. Isa was lined up ahead ago, and when he decided to move home, they went to the market.



There was a lot of talk from players about how Lancaster improved things. It looked good for Lancaster but also showed the previous group of coaches were lacking a bit.


IMO anyone who wants to be a coach should move around a bit and get experience from various teams. Its not really Dempseys fault that he has been a one 'club' man throughout his career but it is limiting. NZ has the best coaching and even they are encouraged to go abroad and gain experience in new enviornments. ROG going to Canterbury is great for him and Irish rugby should he return. I got the impression he wasn't too impressed with Rob Penney's Canterbury style of play a few years back. So going to experience new enviornments brings in new ideas and players like having new ideas.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Ruckedtobits » August 17th, 2018, 4:32 pm

dropkick wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:The result in Australia has had a curious impact on some Irish rugby fans. A sense of anticlimax has descended on rugby supporters that this Season can give no more.

Trying to put it into the wider perspective may require a little longer. How the Australians fare against New Zealand will enhance or diminish the Irish acheivement, at least on the international stage. It shouldn't.

Winning a three Test Series away from home, at the end of what was already the most successful season in Irish rugby history, is a triumph of talent and fortitude. That it was accomplished with a Squad that saw only three players figure in all three games with the same number on their back, is a statement of depth and excellent organisation.

Joe Schmidt has led a group of players and coaches in the acquisition of trophies and titles ...and reputation. However, those players and coaches, along the way, have also acquired experience and confidence, two of the attributes without which it is impossible to seriously challenge for the World Cup.

Their displays against France and England in the 6N, laid alongside those in the last two Test Matches, have now demonstrated conclusively that we are going to have to get accustomed to being spoken of as serious contenders as World Cup winners.

For an Irish Rugby team, this may be the heaviest burden imaginable. Indeed for almost any Irish sports team, the prospect of being favourites is almost intolerable. But bear it they must, because it will not diminish in the timeframe before the Japanese adventure starts.

This is going to be the biggest challenge that Joe Schmidt will face in the coming months. As a New Zealand rugby man, his emotional response to favouritism will be very different to the Irish psyche. He is going to have to educate his Irish Squad and Coaches to the weight of this burden and he will have to embark on this task as soon as they meet up again.

For the present, let's hope that each and every player and coach and member of the background team can savour their achievements and let their bodies fully recover from their extraordinary workload since last August.



I think they're getting used to the favourites tag these days. Leinster are favourites nearly every game of the season so they the squad should be used to it more these days. Beating NZ, winning a series in Australia and winning a match in SA a few years ago are big mental hurdles the team have conquered and those teams don't have them same aura now that they used to.


On the other point about waiting to see where Australia stand after they've played the rugby championship, I agree that it will give us a clearer picture. Wales beat Argentina easily the other week but it doesn't look as good now after Scotland beat them by even more that Wales.


So, tomorrow morning we look at the beginning of the final chapter of our journey in Oz. I don't expect an Aussie victory, mostly because of their reshaped midfield, but we will certainly see how the Aussie pack match-up against a NZ pack which is the most experienced in world rugby. Sio will be missed at LHP but Robertson is a very decent replacement and caused Furlong some anxiety in June.

Good luck to Cheiks and his Squad and let's see how the first contest of World Cup season play out.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Ruckedtobits » August 18th, 2018, 2:52 pm

At half-time, leading by 6-5 against NZ, Australia were looking like the 3rd ranked team in the world. But you feared that they had not taken enough advantage of the NZ mistakes that their aggressive defence had forced.

So it proved. The NZ try just before half-time was followed by another early in the second-half and the Aussies suddenly began to look uncertain and even unfit. By the end Barrett and McKenzie were bossing the game completely and the Aussies were a badly beaten docket.

Perhaps one of the most significant aspects from an Irish perspective was the post-match interview with Kieran Reid whose first comment was "We were very aware how good the Aussies looked in their very competitive Series against Ireland and we focussed on combating their pack...........".

NZ did a number on the Aussie line-out and after an excellent start in the first-half, the Aussie scrum was under pressure throughout the second-half.

We're still second in the rankings but the entire Irish Camp will have been reminded again just how competent, and then brilliant, this NZ Squad can be. High tempo, constantly moving the ball with hard-working players across the team. Mistakes yes, but covered by unbridled confidence and team work. A tough opponent.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby fourthirtythree » August 18th, 2018, 4:55 pm

I didn't see it but I believe NZ stole seven line outs... That will kill you.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby cormac » August 18th, 2018, 6:46 pm

NZ were lethal on the counter-attack in the second half.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby sunshiner1 » August 20th, 2018, 2:09 am

The New Zealanders looked excellent but Australia just looked dead on their feet in the second half especially the last 20 mins. Cheika has a lot of work to do to get them back to parity.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby hugonaut » August 20th, 2018, 7:02 am

fourthirtythree wrote:I didn't see it but I believe NZ stole seven line outs... That will kill you.


Yeah, they really dominated the oppo lineout in a way that I haven't seen since the 2007 SA team with Matfield and Juan Smith. There were a lot of really good aerial contests – some of the throws were a bit slow in the air, but I thought that the turnover count was as much down to NZ excellence as Aussie ineptitude.

New Zealand really picked on the fact that Pocock and Hooper are so short and that Tui is a bit inexperienced and one dimensional at this stage in his career - it was four really experienced and very tall jumping options [Retallick, Whitelock, Read and Squire] against two decent Aussie options [Rodda and Coleman, the second rows].
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » August 20th, 2018, 1:45 pm

I thought Australia were really poor tbh. Aside from their good linespeed and Pocock's breakdown work in the first half, were there any other real positives? Set piece was obviously a nightmare and led to a lot of the havoc that ensued because they were clearly panicking off knock on turnover balls to avoid having to go back for a scrum, they blew loads of breaks by forcing passes under no real pressure, Genia was unbelievably slow to move the ball from the ruck, Foley offered no control, Beale and Hodge didn't work as a combo, DHP was brutal, Folau wasn't involved all that much, and they were exhausted by the start of the second half.

I really thought they were becoming more consistent and would put up a good fight with that squad but was really disappointed.
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