Summer tour to Australia

[leinsterforever]

Hopefully the Italy, Argentina and USA matches will be used to give other scrumhalves gametime.

Great series win overall. In the past these things have nearly always been a case of what might have been, so it's nice to get over the line in front this time

[TerenureJim]

Do people reckon we've now reached the point where Southern Hemisphere teams will respect us and actually know the names of our players? Australia went in fully loaded for all three tests, we experimented with lineups, were missing some starters, playing at the end of a hugely long season, and looked like we were keeping some moves in the bag/plying below a level we know we can get to.

[Oldschool]

NEither of the other options are as good as Murray and it's not close. If Murray gets injured we use one of the other options and they're not as good as Murray. Maybe Sexton does more of the decisionmaking. One of the draw backs of having a great player is that the replacement isn't as good. Murray has proven time and again he can go 80+ like in Paris this year and it was needed too.

Will an extra 20 mins of test rugby make them better players? Cooney improved at Ulster by playing regularly(maybe Peel had something to do with it?). Maybe thats the message. Go back to your clubs and get better.

Don't agree at all.
Rugby is a sum of the parts game.
BOD and Heaslip are two very examples of being"irreplaceable" players that have been replaced.
Murray's replacements can play all they like with their club's but it's not international rugby.
Playing international rugby is the one thing makes you a better international rugby player.
Murray as I pointed out above isn't flawless either.

[Oldschool]

Do people reckon we've now reached the point where Southern Hemisphere teams will respect us and actually know the names of our players? Australia went in fully loaded for all three tests, we experimented with lineups, were missing some starters, playing at the end of a hugely long season, and looked like we were keeping some moves in the bag/plying below a level we know we can get to.

When you describe it like that it's very like what NZ, OZ and SA have done when they come to the NH.
Maybe that's why the SH teams have dominated.
They've used the tours to the NH to deepen their squads.

[ronk]

Falau cited for the 2nd one.

[Hippo]

Don't agree at all.
Rugby is a sum of the parts game.
BOD and Heaslip are two very examples of being"irreplaceable" players that have been replaced.
Murray's replacements can play all they like with their club's but it's not international rugby.
Playing international rugby is the one thing makes you a better international rugby player.
Murray as I pointed out above isn't flawless either.

Murray is exceptional but indeed far from flawless and he's in severe danger of being flogged to death before the WC. Both Marmion and Cooney have shown enough to be given a shot - certainly at least as much as Carbery, who's been given a start at 10.

[ronk]

He's getting managed minutes and isn't empty finishing games. He's not being flogged.

[Oldschool]

He's getting managed minutes and isn't empty finishing games. He's not being flogged.

It's not all about minutes.
Murray is under the cosh every time he plays.
He's targeted all the time.
As an example Scotland going for his non kicking leg.
So minutes x the intensity of those minutes is what is a major concern.

[ronk]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.3541898

Bigger motions happening over the aerial contest.

[paddyor]

NEither of the other options are as good as Murray and it's not close. If Murray gets injured we use one of the other options and they're not as good as Murray. Maybe Sexton does more of the decisionmaking. One of the draw backs of having a great player is that the replacement isn't as good. Murray has proven time and again he can go 80+ like in Paris this year and it was needed too.

Will an extra 20 mins of test rugby make them better players? Cooney improved at Ulster by playing regularly(maybe Peel had something to do with it?). Maybe thats the message. Go back to your clubs and get better.

Don't agree at all.
Rugby is a sum of the parts game.
BOD and Heaslip are two very examples of being"irreplaceable" players that have been replaced.
Murray's replacements can play all they like with their club's but it's not international rugby.
Playing international rugby is the one thing makes you a better international rugby player.
Murray as I pointed out above isn't flawless either.

Never said he was irreplaceable, just the replacements aren't as good.

I don't think that's true. Ben Youngs, Danny Care and Greg Laidlaw haven't improved as players playing international rugby. There's a hard limit to what they can do and no amount of international rugby will change that.

Murrays the best SH in the game IMO. I look forward to him becoming bestest!

[paddyor]

He's getting managed minutes and isn't empty finishing games. He's not being flogged.

It's not all about minutes.
Murray is under the cosh every time he plays.
He's targeted all the time.
As an example Scotland going for his non kicking leg.
So minutes x the intensity of those minutes is what is a major concern.

That was Glasgow during his box kicks and that's on his team mates IMO. I don't see Murray as being under the cosh at all. When we're going forward defenses tend to be focused on our carriers.

[paddyor]

He's getting managed minutes and isn't empty finishing games. He's not being flogged.

+1

[Oldschool]

He's getting managed minutes and isn't empty finishing games. He's not being flogged.

It's not all about minutes.
Murray is under the cosh every time he plays.
He's targeted all the time.
As an example Scotland going for his non kicking leg.
So minutes x the intensity of those minutes is what is a major concern.

That was Glasgow during his box kicks and that's on his team mates IMO. I don't see Murray as being under the cosh at all. When we're going forward defenses tend to be focused on our carriers.

If that's the case then there's no excuse for the sh!tty passes he was giving.
Both Glasgow and Scotland did it btw.

[Ruckedtobits]

The result in Australia has had a curious impact on some Irish rugby fans. A sense of anticlimax has descended on rugby supporters that this Season can give no more.

Trying to put it into the wider perspective may require a little longer. How the Australians fare against New Zealand will enhance or diminish the Irish acheivement, at least on the international stage. It shouldn't.

Winning a three Test Series away from home, at the end of what was already the most successful season in Irish rugby history, is a triumph of talent and fortitude. That it was accomplished with a Squad that saw only three players figure in all three games with the same number on their back, is a statement of depth and excellent organisation.

Joe Schmidt has led a group of players and coaches in the acquisition of trophies and titles ...and reputation. However, those players and coaches, along the way, have also acquired experience and confidence, two of the attributes without which it is impossible to seriously challenge for the World Cup.

Their displays against France and England in the 6N, laid alongside those in the last two Test Matches, have now demonstrated conclusively that we are going to have to get accustomed to being spoken of as serious contenders as World Cup winners.

For an Irish Rugby team, this may be the heaviest burden imaginable. Indeed for almost any Irish sports team, the prospect of being favourites is almost intolerable. But bear it they must, because it will not diminish in the timeframe before the Japanese adventure starts.

This is going to be the biggest challenge that Joe Schmidt will face in the coming months. As a New Zealand rugby man, his emotional response to favouritism will be very different to the Irish psyche. He is going to have to educate his Irish Squad and Coaches to the weight of this burden and he will have to embark on this task as soon as they meet up again.

For the present, let's hope that each and every player and coach and member of the background team can savour their achievements and let their bodies fully recover from their extraordinary workload since last August.

[Peg Leg]

Test stuff in Nov. Then its Eng first up in Feb. Thats it, thats everything.

[suisse]

I mentioned it live here during the game that Phil Kearns had made a "potato" joke on Aussie TV. Seems like that was picked up and RugbyPass have a video about it. I really don't care what Kearns thinks but it is interesting how incidents like this are viewed. If Kearns made a similar joke about, say, black people and fried chicken (Sergio Garcia on Tiger Woods. Google search the number of articles on that), there would be uproar and he'd be forced to apologise/suspended/fired. I don't know what policy FOX has on this, but they can't just ignore it this time but say it is unacceptable for another case. If we say it is just a joke, then where do you draw the line and why is it okay for Irish potato jokes but not others?

[StrangeButBlue]

He was complaining about how long we were taking regrouping before a scrum saying we were wasting time chatting away while someone was down injured, and then he said "fiddly di, fiddly di, potato", This appeared to be what he believed the Irish were saying to each other.

[OTT]

I mentioned it live here during the game that Phil Kearns had made a "potato" joke on Aussie TV. Seems like that was picked up and RugbyPass have a video about it. I really don't care what Kearns thinks but it is interesting how incidents like this are viewed. If Kearns made a similar joke about, say, black people and fried chicken (Sergio Garcia on Tiger Woods. Google search the number of articles on that), there would be uproar and he'd be forced to apologise/suspended/fired. I don't know what policy FOX has on this, but they can't just ignore it this time but say it is unacceptable for another case. If we say it is just a joke, then where do you draw the line and why is it okay for Irish potato jokes but not others?

I have always found Phil Kearns a bit like Franno, you sort of wish he was not backing whatever team you are supporting. I preferred Franno when he was negative about everything Leinster and Ireland because we were safe from being associated with him. I remember Kearns did some stunt before the RWC game in 2011 where he took the piss out of Ireland. He is an ignorant buffoon. I don't know what the Aussies think of him but I think he is is a cringe merchant. Have not watched his antics on Saturday I will have a look for that video now.

[dropkick]

The result in Australia has had a curious impact on some Irish rugby fans. A sense of anticlimax has descended on rugby supporters that this Season can give no more.

Trying to put it into the wider perspective may require a little longer. How the Australians fare against New Zealand will enhance or diminish the Irish acheivement, at least on the international stage. It shouldn't.

Winning a three Test Series away from home, at the end of what was already the most successful season in Irish rugby history, is a triumph of talent and fortitude. That it was accomplished with a Squad that saw only three players figure in all three games with the same number on their back, is a statement of depth and excellent organisation.

Joe Schmidt has led a group of players and coaches in the acquisition of trophies and titles ...and reputation. However, those players and coaches, along the way, have also acquired experience and confidence, two of the attributes without which it is impossible to seriously challenge for the World Cup.

Their displays against France and England in the 6N, laid alongside those in the last two Test Matches, have now demonstrated conclusively that we are going to have to get accustomed to being spoken of as serious contenders as World Cup winners.

For an Irish Rugby team, this may be the heaviest burden imaginable. Indeed for almost any Irish sports team, the prospect of being favourites is almost intolerable. But bear it they must, because it will not diminish in the timeframe before the Japanese adventure starts.

This is going to be the biggest challenge that Joe Schmidt will face in the coming months. As a New Zealand rugby man, his emotional response to favouritism will be very different to the Irish psyche. He is going to have to educate his Irish Squad and Coaches to the weight of this burden and he will have to embark on this task as soon as they meet up again.

For the present, let's hope that each and every player and coach and member of the background team can savour their achievements and let their bodies fully recover from their extraordinary workload since last August.

I think they're getting used to the favourites tag these days. Leinster are favourites nearly every game of the season so they the squad should be used to it more these days. Beating NZ, winning a series in Australia and winning a match in SA a few years ago are big mental hurdles the team have conquered and those teams don't have them same aura now that they used to.


On the other point about waiting to see where Australia stand after they've played the rugby championship, I agree that it will give us a clearer picture. Wales beat Argentina easily the other week but it doesn't look as good now after Scotland beat them by even more that Wales.

[Oldschool]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.3541898

Bigger motions happening over the aerial contest.

Perhaps the wheel is about to go full circle.
No lifting in the lineout.
No lifting the receiver in any situation, kick offs for example.
Probably not before the next RWC.