Summer tour to Australia

[Ruckedtobits]

Although it's almost heresy to suggest it, it appeared to me that Furlong, momentarily, lost concentration at the 5m scrum it which we conceded a penalty which led to them going ahead. Watch carefully how his right shoulder is turned in and up just before we go backward on his side.

Franno, in the Indo on Sunday, attributes the fault to Roux who had just come on. But I'm not convinced that we could have stopped the turn once Tadgh had his shoulder turned in. The fact is that he was driven in and then up - because his 2nd row didn't release the pressure - before our scrum went backwards on his side.

The fact that this happened is not a disaster and doesn't mean it will happen again. On the contrary, this is exactly what gaining experience is about and I clearly remember Heinke Van de Merwe doing it to a much vaunted French THP in a vital game for Leinster - possibly q/f or s/f in 2011 against Toulouse - and waiting for him to repeat it.

This is one of the narrow margins that JS refers to and we can be sure it won't happen again, any time soon.

[olaf the fat]

Our first match in the RWC is just over a year and (as things stand) 11 games away, at some point you have to stop developing for the world cup and start playing the hand you'll be dealing.

Well, we can beat everybody in Europe, just at this point nobody in Europe looks likely to win the RWC.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Although it's almost heresy to suggest it, it appeared to me that Furlong, momentarily, lost concentration at the 5m scrum it which we conceded a penalty which led to them going ahead. Watch carefully how his right shoulder is turned in and up just before we go backward on his side.

Franno, in the Indo on Sunday, attributes the fault to Roux who had just come on. But I'm not convinced that we could have stopped the turn once Tadgh had his shoulder turned in. The fact is that he was driven in and then up - because his 2nd row didn't release the pressure - before our scrum went backwards on his side.

The fact that this happened is not a disaster and doesn't mean it will happen again. On the contrary, this is exactly what gaining experience is about and I clearly remember Heinke Van de Merwe doing it to a much vaunted French THP in a vital game for Leinster - possibly q/f or s/f in 2011 against Toulouse - and waiting for him to repeat it.

This is one of the narrow margins that JS refers to and we can be sure it won't happen again, any time soon.

Furlong is one guy that I really think has looked tired over the last month or so. I know he knocked Beale over spectacularly and there was that ferocious clear out against Munster, but in general he looks tired to me.

I'd be tempted to leave him out altogether this weekend and then reassess next week.

[CiaranIrl]

I could see something like: Healy, Cronin, Furlong, Beirne, Toner, O'Mahony, Leavy, Conan, Marmion, Sexton, Stockdale, Henshaw, Ringrose, Earls, Conway

McGrath, Scannell, Porter, Ryan, Stander, Murray, Byrne, Larmour

You'd start Marmion in a must win game? Interesting.

Marmion or Cooney, yeah. It's entirely possible that we'll have injuries to key personnel in the lead up to or during the world cup. We need to give pressure cooker experience to second choice players in critical positions. I don't think winning or losing these matches is as important to the world cup as the media has made out. If we don't test depth in this series, when will we? Italy & the USA in November won't tell us much, and we'll obviously need to use all first choice vs new Zealand at home. Argentina maybe, but that's it really.

[RAILWAY1]

With the world cup in mind a mixture of experience may be appropriate for this week. Conway, Larmour, Ringrose, Henshaw, Stockdale, Sexton, Murray, Healy , Scannell, Porter, Toner, Ja. Ryan, O'Mahoney Leavy, Conan.

Bench : McGrath, John Ryan, Cronin, Beirne, Stander, Marmion / Cooney, Carbery/ Byrne, Kearney

Some players like Furlong have carried a heavy workload this season and could do with a week off even if they don't want it

[paddyor]

I think he'll have to bite the bullet and start one of the replacement scrum halfs. His hands were tied when Earls got injured and Marmion had to be kept in reserve (it was him or Sexton). Murray has been flogged this season already, one more game and he'll have more mins than last season which included the Lions tour.

[leinsterforever]

I haven't watched it back but from memory he only made one bad read. But the point was that he was there to make that read, don't think it was Farrell's fault.

There was at least 2. The first didn't lead to a try because of an awesome cover tackle, the 2nd did. It was almost a carbon copy.

The Stockdale cover tackle example wasn't a bad read, it was a bad tackle. It was actually a good read from Henshaw, but he inexplicably slipped off the tackle – not just inexplicable for Henshaw [a great tackler], but inexplicable for any decent pro. He got a good contact with the shoulder, wrapped him with both arms and then just slipped off.

I thought that Beale ran Pocock really close for Man of the Match – he was magnificent. Great passer, runner, kicker, good instincts, full of invention, authoritative on the ball ... everything you could look for as a No12. He's one of the best inside backs in the world on that sort of form – there's Beauden Barrett, Sexton, Owen Farrell and him, and he's waaaay more inventive and instinctual than Farrell.

Our lads looked quite fatigued, which can have a big effect. The transcontinental travel, the obvious humidity and it being the end of a long season all played their part. For example, Hendo struggled through the second half before being substituted ... he looked badly out of gas. O'Mahony had a big first half and then fell off into anonymity in the second half.

Carberry's lack of strategic kicking was typical of him and played into Australian strengths and away from ours. In open play, he had three kicks in 55 minutes, and one of them doesn't really count [thankfully, it was dreadful] because it was on an Australian advantage for the penalty from the kick-off. Aside from that it was an up-and-under each half to Hewlett Petty which were neither particularly good nor bad and with which the Australian winger dealt well.

They had a debutant hooker, a No8 who has spent 5 of the last 6 years playing rugby league and two stumps in Pocock and Hooper at open and blind ... i.e. a sh!t lineout. We were able to put a lot of pressure on that set-piece from the get-go: even if we didn't get clean steals [and we got three of them], we were able to dirty the ball. So our starting out-half decided not to try and find touch once in an hour, but to play a possession game that would entail a lot of breakdowns against a backrow with two of the best jackals in the world in it. I'd say that there's loads of reasoning behind restarting three-times in a row to Israel Folau, but the premise is still as stupid as they get – "kick it high to the best aerial player in the world".

Aside from James Ryan [and Rob Herring, from my point of view], nobody really came out of that one with their reputations enhanced. I'm not at all critical of the effort or workrate, which was excellent, but it was a tough test and even the most experienced players had big Xs beside their name as well as √s - Robert, Conor Murray, Robbie Henshaw, Stander all made bad, standout errors.

Carbery's lack of instinct when it comes to kicking the corners would be my biggest gripe with him as an outhalf. I just don't think he looks to do it enough in general. That said, it seems to have gone out of the game in recent years, so maybe he was just following coaches' orders. It's all either hanging on to the ball and going through the phases or contestable kicks now

[RAILWAY1]

It reminds me of the Brian Ashton era for Ireland when he was asked for his view on a bad defeat one day his anawer I don't know that wasn't my plan they played out there

[ronk]

Lions 2nd test set the template.

Warburton replaced POM because we have to compete at the turnover battle. Beirne needs to come into the squad as does Leavy. Bruising 12 goes to the bench in favor of a more creative option who can kick, pass and provide another option for blitz defenses to worry about.

We can’t concede these battles and hope to beat them elsewhere.

A Sexton-Carbery partnership would probably be excessive though, I think Ringrose needs to start.

Beale should be the player we try to copy when developing long term.

[leinsterforever]

Lions 2nd test set the template.

Warburton replaced POM because we have to compete at the turnover battle. Beirne needs to come into the squad as does Leavy. Bruising 12 goes to the bench in favor of a more creative option who can kick, pass and provide another option for blitz defenses to worry about.

We can’t concede these battles and hope to beat them elsewhere.

A Sexton-Carbery partnership would probably be excessive though, I think Ringrose needs to start.

Beale should be the player we try to copy when developing long term.

Don't think it's Schmidt's style to play a outhalf-type, playmaker 12. New Zealanders generally like a truck-it-up inside centre like a Laumape or a Nonu. When Deans was coaching Australia he picked Pat McCabe at 12 and had Beale at fullback. It's more of an Aussie thing to go for a 12 with the creative ability of a 10

[backrower8]

“Furlong’s” scrum penalty. I didn’t notice the inward turning shoulder.

What I saw was an 8 man snap shove as the ball was fed then their whole from row aided by the second rows driving to their left. Their 23 year old Loose-head di well not to run around. Their 22 year old tight-head was at a near 45 degree angle.

Notably their back-row had very little to do with it. The 8 was barely bound and the WF on the loose-head couldn’t do much as the shove was coming over to his side.

On the only other scrum I saw Furlong vs Robertson, the sub loosie was angled 45 degrees inwards on Furlong. Totally illegal. It just allowed them lock any pressure from us and they got the ball away. I think we need to be more verbal about blatant infringements by politely calling the referee out e.g. as an Aussie rolls into the path of the ball at ruck-time or blatantly obstructs Henshaw on a kick-off chase.

There are limits to what you can call, but if the tone is right you have a chance of shaming the referee as his assessor listens in.

Jonny made two appeals to the referee when he came on. Both of them were narky in style. Rory Best is very good at respectfully challenging referees.



Notable

[TerenureJim]

There was poor ref chat on Saturday, could PO'M have done more? Or was it just an odd ref who's likely to get some poor ratings for bizarre calls against both sides

[sunshiner1]

by TerenureJim

There was poor ref chat on Saturday, could PO'M have done more? Or was it just an odd ref who's likely to get some poor ratings for bizarre calls against both sides

This is my bugbear with both Sexton and POM. Neither are good at communicating with the referee. Best is sorely missed in this category.

[MelbourneRebel]

Our first match in the RWC is just over a year and (as things stand) 11 games away, at some point you have to stop developing for the world cup and start playing the hand you'll be dealing.

Well, we can beat everybody in Europe, just at this point nobody in Europe looks likely to win the RWC.

I wouldn't take this negative a view. We are no less likely candidates for the World Cup than we were before the game, in fact we are probably stronger for the experience. We would have taken a lot from the game.

This was probably Australia's best performance since the 2015 World Cup and a they played with an intensity that had been absent since before the Robbie Deans era. We fielded a team without at least 6 of our provisional World Cup XV (Healy, Best, Furlong, Leavy, Sexton and Ringrose) and you could make an argument for O'Brien and Heaslip too. We lost by 9 points, had some controversial decisions against us (as did they) and could easily have won the game (although Australia deserved the win).

New Zealand would struggle against an Australia team if they left out 6-8 of their first choice XV.

[MelbourneRebel]

by TerenureJim

There was poor ref chat on Saturday, could PO'M have done more? Or was it just an odd ref who's likely to get some poor ratings for bizarre calls against both sides

This is my bugbear with both Sexton and POM. Neither are good at communicating with the referee. Best is sorely missed in this category.

POM is a decent captain in my opinion but if everyone is fit would het get into the starting XV? I have a feeling that he would not and that Schmidt would shoe-horn O'Brien in there. Sexton doesn't have the diplomacy to be a captain.

Looking at the age profile of Best (and favouring a captain in the pack) I would be leaning towards developing James Ryan as captain despite his relative youth.

[sunshiner1]

Looking at the age profile of Best (and favouring a captain in the pack) I would be leaning towards developing James Ryan as captain despite his relative youth.

I was thinking the same. There is really no one else who is a tied down starter who fits the role. Stander might be a candidate but the troll machine would go into overdrive.

[outcast eddie]

Some damning stuff from Franno on Roux which I'd tend to agree with; I've never seen anything in QR's performances to justify his position in the Ireland squad.

'The players and the pundits talk about how the game turns on small margins but the game turned on a pretty big margin. Iain Henderson had put in a very decent shift; he had not played in a month or two but still looked up to the task to me. He was replaced by Quinn Roux in the 64th minute and suddenly Ireland were effectively down to 14 men. In the 18 minutes that Roux was on the field he had no carries, he had no clearouts, he won no lineout ball, he had no passes and he missed one of his two tackles. He did absolutely nothing in the time he was on the pitch.'

[Dave Cahill]

Firatly, Franno is wrong about everything.

Secondly, he hates foreign players qualified by residency.

Thirdly, never admit you agree with Franno. What you do in the privacy of your own home is up to you, but its not for public consumption [WINKING FACE]

[Flash Gordon]

by TerenureJim

There was poor ref chat on Saturday, could PO'M have done more? Or was it just an odd ref who's likely to get some poor ratings for bizarre calls against both sides

This is my bugbear with both Sexton and POM. Neither are good at communicating with the referee. Best is sorely missed in this category.

I have my doubts about his ability as a captain. His decision making has been poor at points over the course of the season for Munster and his performances are sometimes frankly average.....he was part of a backrow last weekend that got comprehensively beaten and knocked back - he made 7 meters off 9 carries. He did some decent defensive work, tackled well but was a solid "6" rating for me. If all Ireland's backrow options were available would he be guaranteed a start? He didn't start when they were for Ireland. The last coach to ask himself that question was Warren Gatland and we know how that ended!

With regard to the captaincy, we absolutely miss Best who talks constantly in a very respectful and unconfrontational manner. Of the rest I'd have thought Sexton or Murray but Sexton rubs people generally up the wrong way and Murray didn't endear himself by screaming in the ref's face at the weekend albeit with understandable frustration.....

[backrower8]

As previously posted, we are in danger of a Captaincy crisis and it is almost too late and very unlikely for a change to happen.

- Rory will be 37 at RWC!! There is real potential that he is going to start falling off in performances and/or his body is going to start breaking down. We are winging it by continuing with him.

- POM should not be guaranteed his place in a back-row gallery of SOB, Leavy, VDF, Ruddock, Conan, Stander, Beirne. He doesn't have the carrying or distributing ability and lacks pure power - but his defensive line-out work is unique.

- Jonny needs a halter on him (a Captain over him). His temperamental side will always need to be kept in check and he is getting worse now he is (justifiably) seen as Rugby-Royalty as well as the "Son of Joe". As it is he narks at referees and makes too many selfish, irrational decisions like tapping and running penalties on his own, like turning down 3 pointers coz he is injured, kicking balls away and over-kicking and missing crucial line kicks. He needs a boss/peer on the pitch - but only Rory, POM and maybe SOB (if playing) come close right now.

Leavy and Ryan are genuine candidates. Both have the respect of the squad. Ryan especially, both for his play and temperament. If either of them were given the captaincy in the Autumn then they would rise to it in time to own it by the 6N and RWC. Good and all as he is, Leavy should not be guaranteed a place by Captaincy given the back-row ranks...no back-rower should.

22 next month, it is not ideal for Ryan. Two more years bedding in would be preferable, but the squad is already being built on his generation (even if he is almost the baby) with Furlong, Porter, Henderson, Dillane, Leavy, VDF, Joey, Robbie, Garry, Jacob and Jordan. Also it is a Leinster-led squad.

Another potential option is Henderson. But I don't know if it suits his temperament. The status quo is flying on a "wing & a prayer" for old-man Rory, with two VCs that either aren't worthy enough or suitable enough for the task.

Joe needs to lead on this as well.