Summer tour to Australia

[paddyor]

I haven't watched it back but from memory he only made one bad read. But the point was that he was there to make that read, don't think it was Farrell's fault.

There was at least 2. The first didn't lead to a try because of an awesome cover tackle, the 2nd did. It was almost a carbon copy.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Okay...and again, my point is that we had people there so I don't blame Farrell for the mistakes we made.

[RAILWAY1]

Some posters seem to be laying the blame on the starting 15 but the fact is we were ahead before the subs came on. Michael Cheika had his homework done and came up the right plan for dealing with the Irish system, the 6 / 2 split on his bench meant Australia could maintain their very physical defence and they made better use of some crazy refereeing

[paddyor]

Okay...and again, my point is that we had people there so I don't blame Farrell for the mistakes we made.

Yeah I think I agree. It's a bit similar to the 6N game vs Wales. 2 of the tries we conceded were partially at least down to individual mistakes(Conan & Sotckdale). Farrell can't make Henshaws tackles for him and if someone shoots up and misses a tackle the oppo are going to get outside you.

[Fan with smartphone]

I’m totally encouraged by yesterday. Cheika has stated that he has been giving game time to loads of people, but he now intends to focus on his chosen side from here on in. So effectively, that’s Australia (bar maybe rustiness and briefish preparation time) at close to their best. More or less full out. At home. To be right in the mix with them, with a full team, would be fair enough going. To be right with them, whilst getting genuinely valuable time to: Herring, Ryan x2, Larmour, Carbery, and arguably some others, is good. It’s really good actually. England went there, won 3-0 and really chased the consecutive wins thing. I’m not convinced that’s the way to go about this series, even though yesterday was a very frustrating loss.

We can also play quite a bit better I think. There were more mistakes than usual - uncharacteristic: drops, tackles, kicks too long, discipline a bit too, restarts, scrum didn’t get the rewards it might have, even our excellent lineout didn’t damage them as much as it might have. We were maybe a bit clunky at times and possibly look better when we have a second playmaker somewhere in the back line. My feeling having only watched once was that Murray had a flat out poor game. I liked marmion’s cameo, I actually think he has been excellent this season and there’s a good chance he starts with sexton this week, though I’d like to see Carbery start another test this tour. Australia will no doubt improve this week too, but I fancy us to win this second test.

We are definitely making progress in key areas of back up. If we ever need to call on Herring and/or Ryan to start, or Carbery, or need Roux, yesterday was a massive help. I’m not totally sure of everyone’s position in the depth chart, but this is really good squad building. At this stage a question i do have is: who is our fullback if Kearney happened to be unavailable? Do we go Henshaw to 15, Ringrose 13? Might that be worth a look now? Or is Conway or Larmour a straight swap, and keep the 3 centres as exclusively centres who interchange to meet the needs of the gameplan?

[ronk]

Mistakes happen when you play faster than normal. Oz were up tempo.

Larmour and Conway are setup to get more of a run at fullback at this provinces, so Schmidt will be able to look at form

[hugonaut]

I haven't watched it back but from memory he only made one bad read. But the point was that he was there to make that read, don't think it was Farrell's fault.

There was at least 2. The first didn't lead to a try because of an awesome cover tackle, the 2nd did. It was almost a carbon copy.

The Stockdale cover tackle example wasn't a bad read, it was a bad tackle. It was actually a good read from Henshaw, but he inexplicably slipped off the tackle – not just inexplicable for Henshaw [a great tackler], but inexplicable for any decent pro. He got a good contact with the shoulder, wrapped him with both arms and then just slipped off.

I thought that Beale ran Pocock really close for Man of the Match – he was magnificent. Great passer, runner, kicker, good instincts, full of invention, authoritative on the ball ... everything you could look for as a No12. He's one of the best inside backs in the world on that sort of form – there's Beauden Barrett, Sexton, Owen Farrell and him, and he's waaaay more inventive and instinctual than Farrell.

Our lads looked quite fatigued, which can have a big effect. The transcontinental travel, the obvious humidity and it being the end of a long season all played their part. For example, Hendo struggled through the second half before being substituted ... he looked badly out of gas. O'Mahony had a big first half and then fell off into anonymity in the second half.

Carberry's lack of strategic kicking was typical of him and played into Australian strengths and away from ours. In open play, he had three kicks in 55 minutes, and one of them doesn't really count [thankfully, it was dreadful] because it was on an Australian advantage for the penalty from the kick-off. Aside from that it was an up-and-under each half to Hewlett Petty which were neither particularly good nor bad and with which the Australian winger dealt well.

They had a debutant hooker, a No8 who has spent 5 of the last 6 years playing rugby league and two stumps in Pocock and Hooper at open and blind ... i.e. a sh!t lineout. We were able to put a lot of pressure on that set-piece from the get-go: even if we didn't get clean steals [and we got three of them], we were able to dirty the ball. So our starting out-half decided not to try and find touch once in an hour, but to play a possession game that would entail a lot of breakdowns against a backrow with two of the best jackals in the world in it. I'd say that there's loads of reasoning behind restarting three-times in a row to Israel Folau, but the premise is still as stupid as they get – "kick it high to the best aerial player in the world".

Aside from James Ryan [and Rob Herring, from my point of view], nobody really came out of that one with their reputations enhanced. I'm not at all critical of the effort or workrate, which was excellent, but it was a tough test and even the most experienced players had big Xs beside their name as well as √s - Robert, Conor Murray, Robbie Henshaw, Stander all made bad, standout errors.

[CiaranIrl]

Selection will be really interesting for the second test.

Front row: likely to revert to Healy, Cronin, Furlong, with McGrath, Porter and maybe Scannell in the bench.
Second row: Toner and one other. Could debut Beirne with toner, which seems a really balanced combination.
Backrow: Could alternatively select Beirne at 6 and keep Ryan in the row. If not Beirne, O'Mahony surely keeps his place. Leavy definitely, and could give Conan a start.
Halfbacks: Sexton starts, with maybe Ross Byrne on the bench. Does he try to give one of the alternative scrum halves a start? Maybe even rest Murray?
Centre: Henshaw & Ringrose I assume. Maybe Aki & Ringrose?
Back 3: Does Conway start at 15?

[Dave Cahill]

I think we're in danger of over-analysing the game - there were a number of experimental elements to the selection and it didn't quite work out. The team didn't play poorly, they just didn't play particularly well and you do have to play well to beat any of the top 5 sides. Hopefully now for the second test we'll see a more 'first choice' XV. Selection in the centre will be interesting as will the choice at hooker.

[betty swallocks]

Maybe something along the lines of Kearney, Conway, Ringrose, Aki, Larmour, Sexton, Murray, McGrath, Cronin, Furlong, Toner, Ja Ryan, Beirne, Leavy, Stander with Healy, Porter, Herring, Henderson, Conan, Marmion, Ross Byrne, and Carberry on the bench?

[CiaranIrl]

I could see something like: Healy, Cronin, Furlong, Beirne, Toner, O'Mahony, Leavy, Conan, Marmion, Sexton, Stockdale, Henshaw, Ringrose, Earls, Conway

McGrath, Scannell, Porter, Ryan, Stander, Murray, Byrne, Larmour

[the spoofer]

I could see something like: Healy, Cronin, Furlong, Beirne, Toner, O'Mahony, Leavy, Conan, Marmion, Sexton, Stockdale, Henshaw, Ringrose, Earls, Conway

McGrath, Scannell, Porter, Ryan, Stander, Murray, Byrne, Larmour

You'd start Marmion in a must win game? Interesting.

[leinster10]

We are still in with a good chance of winning the test series. Not much between the teams. a few individual errors cost us in the end. Henshaws two missed tackles together with sextons missed kick to touch when the try was overturned were costly. Our scrum defence on our 5m didn't help the cause either. funny enough the substitutions seemed to effect the flow of our play. would like to see ryan and beirne start this weekend and give Conway a run at 15 and see how he goes.

[Oldschool]

Some posters seem to be laying the blame on the starting 15 but the fact is we were ahead before the subs came on. Michael Cheika had his homework done and came up the right plan for dealing with the Irish system, the 6 / 2 split on his bench meant Australia could maintain their very physical defence and they made better use of some crazy refereeing

Haven't had a chance to watch the replay but the question you maybe should be asking is - "Should we have been further ahead"
The bench didn't cover itself in glory mind you - Sexton's missed peno to touch was a shocker and at the time it even look like a potential game changer - Oz saw it as a let off and reacted accordingly.
As Brent Pope would put it - We gave the suckers an even break and they took it.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I didn't agree with his criticism of Stockdale but I really enjoyed Andy Dunne's analysis on OTB over the weekend. He really is excellent, looks at things very differently to most pundits and is very good at picking out little technical things.

[backrower8]

I don't buy into the mantra of "we must win a tour down-under before the RWC like England did in '03". Once we win 1 game and are really competitive in another. This tour is more valuable for deepening the squad than winning the series, so I am surprised there isn't more focus on who should play in the 6, 8, 9, 10 & 15 shirts for the next two games.

If we are serious about developing RWC alternatives, especially at 9, 10 & 15 then alternatives need to start 2 of the 3 Tests...although Marmion looks like an imposter to me, notwithstanding the fact that he only gets a few minutes when he benches...if any. [Do we know the actual reason why Luke was left behind? Not good enough to partner the three 10s he partners all season to 2 Trophies...or injury?]

The comments about Joey showing he is not ready are banal. Of course he is not ready. That was his 4th start at 10 this season! He should have been allowed finish the game out on Saturday and he should play another test in this series as well as one of each of the AIs and 6N matches. Jonny's journey to become the 2nd best Irish 10 of all time, after Kyle, was a slow and pretty tortuous one.

Rob Kearney and Conor Murray look like sacred cows, there is no pressure on the latter at all (well he is the best Northern Hemisphere 9 since Edwards) but we can't expect him to play every game and, post-Zebo, Rob has it too much to himself.

Comments about Conan not being international standard are off the mark. Like any other serious potential breakthrough players he has to have 3-4 full 80 minute matches in a season before he is properly judged. He is a confidence player and is not being well managed by Joe with his slavish devotion to CJ's engine and truck-it-up style.

POM & Stander are both great at what they do but neither are rounded players. Neither are good distributors, too much ball dies with both of them - especially CJ.

[Fireworks]

This tour is all about the WC so I am not too worried about the results just as long as JS is getting what he needs from each of the games. In that spirit I would like to see further experimentation in the next game. That might include giving Byrne as shot at the 10 shirt with Sexton on the bench again.

I would leave our full strength 23 until the final test. Aus were at full strength and just beat us. Soften them up again next week and release the full strenght team in the final test to see what happens.

[Logorrhea]

You'd start Marmion in a must win game? Interesting.

While I don't see any of these games as must win I reckin the players themselves do. I think they did target the tour so will be itching to improve their performance. You do however have to balance that with giving guys experience.

Marmion is one of those lads who could do with a start when it matters. In fairness to him, hes never let us down, and you'd imagine Murray's box kicking wont be as important with Folau swallowing them up. Maybe Marmion might by the right option.

I'd keep rotating around core players. Sexton in with Marmion, Healy and Furlong with Scannell or Herring, Larmour in with Kearney and Earls. Build experience without destroying the integrity of the team. If we aren't competitive doing that, well I think we'll have learned quite a bit BEFORE the world cup. Much better to learn it here then during a WC known-out match.

[backrower8]

The performance of Marius Van Der Westhuizen was a curates egg for me.

I really liked his policing of the off-side line at the breakdown. This is arguably the key issue to mind in our sport (after safety). This for me was a BIG, BIG plus.

But there is so much more that was ignored/tolerated - players slowing ball down in the ruck, not rolling away (in the right direction) fast enough and crooked throws to the line-out (the crooked scrum feed is standard practice). His call for a scrum knock-on against Murray when he was standing with Murray watching the Aussie forward put his hand on the ball was inexplicable...leading to Murray cursing and a penalty.

His TMO work on our 2 tries was very questionable. Not asking the right Q re CJ and accepting an unseen camera angle from the TMO!

The scrum penalty against Furlong was probably fair. The Oz pack got a great shunt on the feed and the front 5 wheeled effectively on Furlong with Ireland not able to take the pressure.

[Dave Cahill]

Our first match in the RWC is just over a year and (as things stand) 11 games away, at some point you have to stop developing for the world cup and start playing the hand you'll be dealing.