Summer tour to Australia

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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby backrower8 » June 12th, 2018, 12:48 pm

The real potential of a captaincy issue is on top of the issues in the depth charts where most people are only focussing on the 10 slot.

We have a lack of experienced replacements (10 international caps at Tier 1&2 level) at 9,10 & 15. Even our wing depth is very questionable where Earls, Stockdale, Conway, Larmour means we are only 2 deep. 3 of those still have international 'L' plates.

We have been blinded by the choice of Joey for the 1st test. We are much worse off in development terms at 9.

Joe needs to remain in selective depth-building mode for the remaining 11 matches before the RWC cycle, only 8 of those are against tier 1/2 opposition.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby ronk » June 12th, 2018, 1:01 pm

Out of all positions 15 is where we need to be careful. 9 is 9 and we're developing provincial options.

Kearney had a bad run of injuries but we just lost our next 2 fullbacks in the depth chart: Payne and Zebo.

TOH looks to be a write off internationally, and all the other provinces are now developing fullbacks, Leinster having lost Isa and Joey. Carbery will need to be abreak glass fullback at Munster having moved to get time at 10.

There are a few IQ fullbacks who are now eligible for selection by joining provinces.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Fireworks » June 12th, 2018, 1:50 pm

MelbourneRebel wrote:
sunshiner1 wrote:
by TerenureJim

There was poor ref chat on Saturday, could PO'M have done more? Or was it just an odd ref who's likely to get some poor ratings for bizarre calls against both sides


This is my bugbear with both Sexton and POM. Neither are good at communicating with the referee. Best is sorely missed in this category.

POM is a decent captain in my opinion but if everyone is fit would het get into the starting XV? I have a feeling that he would not and that Schmidt would shoe-horn O'Brien in there. Sexton doesn't have the diplomacy to be a captain.

Looking at the age profile of Best (and favouring a captain in the pack) I would be leaning towards developing James Ryan as captain despite his relative youth.


Since Heaslips retirement we do not have a backrower who is guaranteed to start. The competition is so strong that there is an outside possibility of POM not making the WC squad whatever about the starting 23. I would look to Murray or Sexton for the role. Murray did let himself down in the last game but I think captaincy would suit him and he is a guaranteed starter with a low injury profile.

Saying that I would stick with Best if his performance level remains good enough.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby ronk » June 12th, 2018, 2:11 pm

POM is safe at 6. Whether we agree or not, he's been safely locked in all season.

He threatened to walk over money and the IRFU blinked. During the 6N Stander stayed at 8 and Conan went to 6. Schmidt isn't interested in trying Stander at 6.

When SOB and vdF were fit there was an argument for going with Leavy at 6. But that's not going fo be worth development time.

What's left: Beirne/Henderson. Doris. Ruddock. Doubtful unless POM gets injured and Schmidt is forced to try it.

He's playing well anyway
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Flash Gordon » June 12th, 2018, 2:16 pm

ronk wrote:Out of all positions 15 is where we need to be careful. 9 is 9 and we're developing provincial options.

Kearney had a bad run of injuries but we just lost our next 2 fullbacks in the depth chart: Payne and Zebo.

TOH looks to be a write off internationally, and all the other provinces are now developing fullbacks, Leinster having lost Isa and Joey. Carbery will need to be abreak glass fullback at Munster having moved to get time at 10.

There are a few IQ fullbacks who are now eligible for selection by joining provinces.


Maybe Munster should play Joey at fullback....... Leinster have Larmour emerging and Lowe can play fullback too. But you're right, we are a bit exposed there. We suspect he can but we don't know if Larmour can make it there at the top level and Lowe is a post world cup prospect. Once again, the other provinces need to step up there game although I have to say I really don't understand Joe's dislike for O'Halloran.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby ronk » June 12th, 2018, 2:24 pm

Joe could barely stand Zebo.

Edit: so he was hardly going to be a fan of TOH
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Flash Gordon » June 12th, 2018, 2:34 pm

ronk wrote:Joe could barely stand Zebo.

Edit: so he was hardly going to be a fan of TOH


Why that?
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby ronk » June 12th, 2018, 2:37 pm

Flash Gordon wrote:
ronk wrote:Joe could barely stand Zebo.

Edit: so he was hardly going to be a fan of TOH


Why that?


No inside knowledge, but they haven't had a good relationship and he dropped him as fast as he could.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Peg Leg » June 12th, 2018, 5:44 pm

I'd say holding the ball in one hand, running into space etc.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Twist » June 12th, 2018, 8:45 pm

On the fullback issue, with Zebo and Payne gone Mike Haley could end up being a RWC bolter


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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby bamboozle » June 13th, 2018, 5:54 am

Peg Leg wrote:I'd say holding the ball in one hand, running into space etc.


Zebo has started 14 Six nations games and 3 WC games and has scored 1 try.

what I would like to see is:

Conway, Earls, Ringrose, Henshaw, Stockdale, Sexton, Marmion, Healy, Scannell, Porter, Toner, Beirne, Leavy, POM, Conan.

Toner & POM to target their lineout.
Leavy & Beirne to match Pooper.

If we win 2nd test I could see the likes of Furlong, Cronin, Henderson, Ja Ryan, Stander, Murray, Kearney coming back in for 3rd test.
If we lose it gives Joe the chance to build squad experience
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby backrower8 » June 13th, 2018, 11:17 am

bamboozle wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:I'd say holding the ball in one hand, running into space etc.


Zebo has started 14 Six nations games and 3 WC games and has scored 1 try.

what I would like to see is:

Conway, Earls, Ringrose, Henshaw, Stockdale, Sexton, Marmion, Healy, Scannell, Porter, Toner, Beirne, Leavy, POM, Conan.

Toner & POM to target their lineout.
Leavy & Beirne to match Pooper.

If we win 2nd test I could see the likes of Furlong, Cronin, Henderson, Ja Ryan, Stander, Murray, Kearney coming back in for 3rd test.
If we lose it gives Joe the chance to build squad experience


I like that as a 3rd test selection (except Cooney for Marmion who I don’t trust). This week we need to go Full Metal Jacket for the W.

Anyone know why McGrath was not brought )for me instead of Marmion) to service the 3 Leinster 10s?
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby betty swallocks » June 13th, 2018, 12:48 pm

Probably because he's a superior 9 to McGrath?
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Lar » June 13th, 2018, 1:42 pm

betty swallocks wrote:Probably because he's a superior 9 to McGrath?


Not on this season's form he isn't.

Schmidt has a history of trusting guys who have performed for him before though and arguably Marmion offers additional back line cover in extreme situations - he has ended up on the wing in a couple of internationals and done OK - Joe likes that versatility.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Laighin Break » June 13th, 2018, 3:30 pm

Lar wrote:
betty swallocks wrote:Probably because he's a superior 9 to McGrath?


Not on this season's form he isn't.

Schmidt has a history of trusting guys who have performed for him before though and arguably Marmion offers additional back line cover in extreme situations - he has ended up on the wing in a couple of internationals and done OK - Joe likes that versatility.


McGrath had a poor enough run of games since his injury, with people speculating he wasn't fully fit.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby ronk » June 13th, 2018, 4:04 pm

ronk wrote:POM is safe at 6. Whether we agree or not, he's been safely locked in all season.

He threatened to walk over money and the IRFU blinked. During the 6N Stander stayed at 8 and Conan went to 6. Schmidt isn't interested in trying Stander at 6.

When SOB and vdF were fit there was an argument for going with Leavy at 6. But that's not going fo be worth development time.

What's left: Beirne/Henderson. Doris. Ruddock. Doubtful unless POM gets injured and Schmidt is forced to try it.

He's playing well anyway


IT reporting POM, Stander and Ryan all selected again for 2nd test.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Flash Gordon » June 13th, 2018, 4:27 pm

Laighin Break wrote:
Lar wrote:
betty swallocks wrote:Probably because he's a superior 9 to McGrath?


Not on this season's form he isn't.

Schmidt has a history of trusting guys who have performed for him before though and arguably Marmion offers additional back line cover in extreme situations - he has ended up on the wing in a couple of internationals and done OK - Joe likes that versatility.


McGrath had a poor enough run of games since his injury, with people speculating he wasn't fully fit.


Absolutely. He's had a pretty average season. Was disappointed that he wasn't selected but not surprised. Think Cooney has really earned his step up and it's hard to argue that he shouldn't be in the frame.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby ronk » June 13th, 2018, 4:31 pm

Flash Gordon wrote:
Laighin Break wrote:
Lar wrote:[quote="betty swallocks"]Probably because he's a superior 9 to McGrath?


Not on this season's form he isn't.

Schmidt has a history of trusting guys who have performed for him before though and arguably Marmion offers additional back line cover in extreme situations - he has ended up on the wing in a couple of internationals and done OK - Joe likes that versatility.


McGrath had a poor enough run of games since his injury, with people speculating he wasn't fully fit.


Absolutely. He's had a pretty average season. Was disappointed that he wasn't selected but not surprised. Think Cooney has really earned his step up and it's hard to argue that he shouldn't be in the frame.[/quote]

He was working through an ankle injury. Rest and a pre-season will do him good. With 3 scrumhalves there was no risk to Ireland.

Cooney may be needed as a goal kicker
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Oldschool » June 13th, 2018, 4:33 pm

The best choice to replace Best as captain unfortunately plays in the worst position.
Rob Kearney has all the qualities you need in a captain except he's too far away from the action.
Heaslip was Joe's likely backup to Best but that's no longer an option.
James Ryan is the standout next best option.
POM and J10 both lack the necessary sangfroid.
Ryan is a natural leader and in fact has shown the presence of mind, on a number of occasions, not to take charge but to defer to existing leadership regime.
Did I mention that he also leads by example.
Ryan to my mind is already the best SR Ireland have fielded in the professional era. This is based on the fact that his performances have put him consistently in contention for mom. This achievement is even more remarkable given the level of performance at which both Ireland and Leinster have been at recently.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Oldschool » June 13th, 2018, 4:36 pm

backrower8 wrote:
bamboozle wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:I'd say holding the ball in one hand, running into space etc.


Zebo has started 14 Six nations games and 3 WC games and has scored 1 try.

what I would like to see is:

Conway, Earls, Ringrose, Henshaw, Stockdale, Sexton, Marmion, Healy, Scannell, Porter, Toner, Beirne, Leavy, POM, Conan.

Toner & POM to target their lineout.
Leavy & Beirne to match Pooper.

If we win 2nd test I could see the likes of Furlong, Cronin, Henderson, Ja Ryan, Stander, Murray, Kearney coming back in for 3rd test.
If we lose it gives Joe the chance to build squad experience


I like that as a 3rd test selection (except Cooney for Marmion who I don’t trust). This week we need to go Full Metal Jacket for the W.

Anyone know why McGrath was not brought )for me instead of Marmion) to service the 3 Leinster 10s?

McGrath had/has to have an operation.
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