Summer tour to Australia

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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby ronk » June 27th, 2018, 8:02 pm

I dont agree about that incident. A situation like that is dangerous and Murray dived at the player wedged against the post. It's a bit much to expect someone to not react. It was a clear deliberate motion of course but the situation is not a safe one.

In open play the post is one thing, but allowing a mess of bodies to go against the post should always be stopped by the ref as a dangerous situation and a scrum awarded.

There's a higher threshold for pro players but we should also realise that they will and do put their bodies on the line in defence and must be protected.

Moving through phases to get so close to a post that the defence have no chance is not a fair contest and shouldnt be part of the game even if technically quasi legal.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Oldschoolsocks » June 27th, 2018, 8:59 pm

ronk wrote:I dont agree about that incident. A situation like that is dangerous and Murray dived at the player wedged against the post. It's a bit much to expect someone to not react. It was a clear deliberate motion of course but the situation is not a safe one.

In open play the post is one thing, but allowing a mess of bodies to go against the post should always be stopped by the ref as a dangerous situation and a scrum awarded.

There's a higher threshold for pro players but we should also realise that they will and do put their bodies on the line in defence and must be protected.

Moving through phases to get so close to a post that the defence have no chance is not a fair contest and shouldnt be part of the game even if technically quasi legal.


whatever about the law being fair or not, under the laws as they stand right now that was a much clearer case for a P.Try and YC as there was throughout all three matches.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Twist » June 27th, 2018, 9:58 pm

suisse wrote:I mentioned it live here during the game that Phil Kearns had made a "potato" joke on Aussie TV. Seems like that was picked up and RugbyPass have a video about it. I really don't care what Kearns thinks but it is interesting how incidents like this are viewed. If Kearns made a similar joke about, say, black people and fried chicken (Sergio Garcia on Tiger Woods. Google search the number of articles on that), there would be uproar and he'd be forced to apologise/suspended/fired. I don't know what policy FOX has on this, but they can't just ignore it this time but say it is unacceptable for another case. If we say it is just a joke, then where do you draw the line and why is it okay for Irish potato jokes but not others?


The fuss, such as it was, seems to have died down very quickly. Did Fox even apologise?


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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby paddyor » June 27th, 2018, 10:11 pm

Oldschoolsocks wrote:whatever about the law being fair or not, under the laws as they stand right now that was a much clearer case for a P.Try and YC as there was throughout all three matches.

The more coomon interpretation of the law is informed by the "Managing the spectacle" "principle" which favours not awarding 2 YC in quick succession.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Oldschoolsocks » June 28th, 2018, 1:38 am

paddyor wrote:
Oldschoolsocks wrote:whatever about the law being fair or not, under the laws as they stand right now that was a much clearer case for a P.Try and YC as there was throughout all three matches.

The more coomon interpretation of the law is informed by the "Managing the spectacle" "principle" which favours not awarding 2 YC in quick succession.

I will go so far as to guess that you agree that even though this appears to be the way the laws are applied that it’s total bollicks and very open to exploitation. Furthermore if you take the Irish and French tours and consider dirty and cynical play, the home (SH) sides certainly benefited to a much greater extent from cr@p application of the laws.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby paddyor » June 28th, 2018, 1:55 am

Oldschoolsocks wrote:I will go so far as to guess that you agree that even though this appears to be the way the laws are applied that it’s total bollicks and very open to exploitation. Furthermore if you take the Irish and French tours and consider dirty and cynical play, the home (SH) sides certainly benefited to a much greater extent from cr@p application of the laws.

No, I'm resigned to it. It's the same for everyone, they just exploit it.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » June 28th, 2018, 11:03 am

ronk wrote:I dont agree about that incident. A situation like that is dangerous and Murray dived at the player wedged against the post. It's a bit much to expect someone to not react. It was a clear deliberate motion of course but the situation is not a safe one.



I don't think the problem was that they reacted, it was that they were offside in the first place. Open to correction on this but I thought the player who was in the ruck did his best to get out of the way.

This might sound wrong but I didn't want a PT for that, I did want a penalty though.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » June 28th, 2018, 11:11 am

hugonaut wrote:
Lar wrote:But the number of Aussie transgressions in defence of their line in Tests 2 and 3 were ridiculous and yet not one player was carded. Despite our having won the series this still irks me as the Aussies are quick enough to give out about what they perceive to be poor decisions.


They have been massive sore losers. I'd seen it before with regards to England and New Zealand, but I thought it was due to the tetchy relationships between the countries.


I've been really surprised by the reaction of former players (AAC, Mitchell, and Hoiles) on twitter in relation to the Folau citing, Hoiles does seem to be trying to carve out an Eamon Dunphy/Neil Francis niche for himself so maybe it should be expected, but they aren't being reasonable at all. They're blaming the lift and ignoring the fact that Folau pulled at POM.

The funny thing is that if they actually looked at the facts and thought about it rationally then I'd agree that a citing/ban was harsh, although totally agree with the yellow being given at the time. One thing I haven't heard mentioned anywhere is that you never see anyone cited for pulling a jumper down at a lineout. That would actually be a reasonable comparison to illustrate harsh treatment of Folau, but the way they've gone about it is just so OTT and ridiculous. Sore losers indeed.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby OTT » June 28th, 2018, 12:01 pm

I am a bit on the fence about the Folau thing. He got a yellow I don't think a citing and a ban was warranted. When you see the All Black prop allowed assault someone in the first test against France and them deem it to be only a red card offence (after the event not even a yellow one at the time) I do think the game is up its own arse on what they should be outlawing.

Over the six games from the two series though I cringe at how Hansen for NZ (who the Aussies are all referencing as some sort of beacon of truth) and Australia (coaches and ex players) in general have come out and attacked the refs/laws as if they have been slighted and some conspiracy against the southern hemisphere is going on. Having watched all the games I would say France are the team who should feel the most hard done by where some outrageous calls went against them.

Australia got the rub of being allowed continually foul in the red zone over the test series without getting due punishment. Paddy can tell me why that was but we will have to agree to disagree on those reasons.

So onto consistency of decisions. In Test 1 a hand in the ruck in the red zone is missed and they refuse to check it, Test 2 a hand in the ruck on the 22 is checked and it is deemed to be a yellow card offence. Consistency?? In Test 2 a maul is brought down in the red zone and a yellow card and penalty try is the outcome. Test 3 a maul is brought down in the red zone and a penalty is the outcome. Consistency??

So the Wallabies can move the goalposts and go on and on about how Izzy has been wronged and how rugby is a poorer sport for it but lets be honest they are just being sore losers because the real inequalities over the series favoured them massively. I cannot wait for the Bledisloe and we can see NZ and Australia compete and when one of them lose that game we can see who is left to blame. I wonder will Hansen still be the voice of reason then.

I thought it was a great series, I did not think we would win it but I think we deserved to in the end. It makes me sick that they are trying to undermine the whole thing with this pathetic whingeing, the guy got a one week ban that's not why you lost the game or the bloody series. Australia are a really good side and you feel that they are close to being back to where they want to be but ffs they need to lose this victim mentality.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby TrapperChamonix » June 28th, 2018, 1:47 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
hugonaut wrote:
Lar wrote:But the number of Aussie transgressions in defence of their line in Tests 2 and 3 were ridiculous and yet not one player was carded. Despite our having won the series this still irks me as the Aussies are quick enough to give out about what they perceive to be poor decisions.


They have been massive sore losers. I'd seen it before with regards to England and New Zealand, but I thought it was due to the tetchy relationships between the countries.


I've been really surprised by the reaction of former players (AAC, Mitchell, and Hoiles) on twitter in relation to the Folau citing, Hoiles does seem to be trying to carve out an Eamon Dunphy/Neil Francis niche for himself so maybe it should be expected, but they aren't being reasonable at all. They're blaming the lift and ignoring the fact that Folau pulled at POM.

The funny thing is that if they actually looked at the facts and thought about it rationally then I'd agree that a citing/ban was harsh, although totally agree with the yellow being given at the time. One thing I haven't heard mentioned anywhere is that you never see anyone cited for pulling a jumper down at a lineout. That would actually be a reasonable comparison to illustrate harsh treatment of Folau, but the way they've gone about it is just so OTT and ridiculous. Sore losers indeed.


Am I right in saying that the scoring during the both yellow cards was 3 - 3?
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Laighin Break » June 28th, 2018, 1:56 pm

TrapperChamonix wrote:Am I right in saying that the scoring during the both yellow cards was 3 - 3?


In the 3rd Test? I think it was 3-3 during our YC period but 6-3 to Ireland when Folau was off.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Morf » June 28th, 2018, 9:10 pm

ronk wrote:There's a higher threshold for pro players but we should also realise that they will and do put their bodies on the line in defence and must be protected.

Moving through phases to get so close to a post that the defence have no chance is not a fair contest and shouldnt be part of the game even if technically quasi legal.


The onus on the ref at all levels is to play the game in the safest manner possible. If the posts become a realistic threat to that on either or both sides then a scrum is definitely sensible from the ref.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby ronk » June 29th, 2018, 9:09 pm

Dangerous play by pros on TV becomes dangerous play in schools and club games.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby blockhead » June 29th, 2018, 11:35 pm

Folau's Wife is having a go at Rob "the most successful player in rugby history" Kearney on twitter.
https://www.balls.ie/rugby/israel-folau-suspension-391887

Listen Maria, when you have as many medals as our Rob does, you just know he has god on his side.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Oldschool » June 30th, 2018, 7:47 am

blockhead wrote:Folau's Wife is having a go at Rob "the most successful player in rugby history" Kearney on twitter.
https://www.balls.ie/rugby/israel-folau-suspension-391887

Listen Maria, when you have as many medals as our Rob does, you just know he has god on his side.

This is a repeat post.
The Aussies made no mention of their series defeat to Ireland in 1979 on their Centenary Dvd.
This is just more of the same begrudgery.
Ireland didn't win the series, Australia lost it cos excuses excuses.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby paddyor » July 1st, 2018, 2:55 pm

Rumour on Planet Rugby that Cronin got wasted on the flight home and started a fight with Marmion or Henshaw. International career is over.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby bertlim » July 1st, 2018, 4:54 pm

paddyor wrote:Rumour on Planet Rugby that Cronin got wasted on the flight home and started a fight with Marmion or Henshaw. International career is over.


Bear in mind there is literally no evidence of this happening other than the original post
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby Logorrhea » July 1st, 2018, 5:00 pm

bertlim wrote:
paddyor wrote:Rumour on Planet Rugby that Cronin got wasted on the flight home and started a fight with Marmion or Henshaw. International career is over.


Bear in mind there is literally no evidence of this happening other than the original post


The original post was just rumour too. Could well be true but this kind of speculation is harmful. I'd rather have it confirmed before allowing the mob to rule on it.
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby bertlim » July 1st, 2018, 5:07 pm

Logorrhea wrote:
bertlim wrote:
paddyor wrote:Rumour on Planet Rugby that Cronin got wasted on the flight home and started a fight with Marmion or Henshaw. International career is over.


Bear in mind there is literally no evidence of this happening other than the original post


The original post was just rumour too. Could well be true but this kind of speculation is harmful. I'd rather have it confirmed before allowing the mob to rule on it.


Agreed
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Re: Summer tour to Australia

Postby paddyor » July 1st, 2018, 5:19 pm

bertlim wrote:
paddyor wrote:Rumour on Planet Rugby that Cronin got wasted on the flight home and started a fight with Marmion or Henshaw. International career is over.


Bear in mind there is literally no evidence of this happening other than the original post

Get the impression a few have heard it.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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