Ireland 2018/2019

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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby artaneboy » November 24th, 2018, 9:54 pm

CiaranIrl wrote:Sweernam, Mcloskey & Arnold needed a performance for the ages to force their way in, and they didn't come with an arses roar of it.

Cooney, Scannell & Henderson won't have an easy review session either.


There’s no “way in” yet. Bar the first team and one or two of that team, Joe has no firm views on most people yet. There will be a whole series of gates and opportunities for people before next autumn and the selection of the squad. Injuries, form, balance will all vary over the next nine months. And Joe will change his mind on several of them as it unwraps. There will probably be bolsters we don’t rate in there. The politics of the last match is always attractive- but it’s very early days yet.


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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby wixfjord » November 24th, 2018, 9:56 pm

artaneboy wrote:
CiaranIrl wrote:Sweernam, Mcloskey & Arnold needed a performance for the ages to force their way in, and they didn't come with an arses roar of it.

Cooney, Scannell & Henderson won't have an easy review session either.


There’s no “way in” yet. Bar the first team and one or two of that team, Joe has no firm views on most people yet. There will be a whole series of gates and opportunities for people before next autumn and the selection of the squad. Injuries, form, balance will all vary over the next nine months. And Joe will change his mind on several of them as it unwraps. There will probably be bolsters we don’t rate in there. The politics of the last match is always attractive- but it’s very early days yet.


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I don't believe that for a second.

I'd say Schmidt has his 31 in his head already, and there are probably at most 4-5 positions up for grabs.
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby artaneboy » November 24th, 2018, 10:02 pm

paddyor wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
FLIP wrote:Some players made a statement tonight. Some players have played themselves out of the RWC squad. Weird and frustrating match.


Don’t think anybody “played themselves out of a squad on the back of a 57-14 win over a decent tier 2 team.

It was a tough imperfect game, but nobody played badly- or certainly no where badly enough to prelude them from selection for a tournament nearly a year away. A bit of of perspective please people...


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When are they gonna get a chance again? It’s 6n, then warm ups and everyone gets a run there and they’re not real tests. Would need a good run in the knockouts of either P14 or HCC, which seems unlikely for a few of them.


Come off it! If a player is on form next spring to autumn and ripping it up in training, warm-ups, HC, Pro 14- or whatever, do you think that Joe is likely to rule him out next autumn because he didn’t shoot the lights out in an international nearly a year previously?

This is just a stage on the way to the decision- but not a crucial one for hopefuls. Anyway, I saw no one who ruled themselves out on that performance. No one was terrible, most were good, a few were excellent.


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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby artaneboy » November 24th, 2018, 10:11 pm

wixfjord wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
CiaranIrl wrote:Sweernam, Mcloskey & Arnold needed a performance for the ages to force their way in, and they didn't come with an arses roar of it.

Cooney, Scannell & Henderson won't have an easy review session either.


There’s no “way in” yet. Bar the first team and one or two of that team, Joe has no firm views on most people yet. There will be a whole series of gates and opportunities for people before next autumn and the selection of the squad. Injuries, form, balance will all vary over the next nine months. And Joe will change his mind on several of them as it unwraps. There will probably be bolsters we don’t rate in there. The politics of the last match is always attractive- but it’s very early days yet.


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I don't believe that for a second.

I'd say Schmidt has his 31 in his head already, and there are probably at most 4-5 positions up for grabs.


You can believe what you want; that doesn’t mean that Joe has to have similar overly rigid opinions.

If there’s one thing we do know for certain about Joe, he’s not constrained by the conventional thinking that many commentators and fans cling to.

So your- or my guesses, for that matter, may largely accord with what he eventually selects. But his processes will not shut out anyone with potential until he absolutely has to. Ridiculous to think he’d tie himself to such a timeline. He’s not playing the fans myopic “whose most popular now” stuff.


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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby wixfjord » November 24th, 2018, 10:23 pm

artaneboy wrote:
You can believe what you want; that doesn’t mean that Joe has to have similar overly rigid opinions.

If there’s one thing we do know for certain about Joe, he’s not constrained by the conventional thinking that many commentators and fans cling to.

So your- or my guesses, for that matter, may largely accord with what he eventually selects. But his processes will not shut out anyone with potential until he absolutely has to. Ridiculous to think he’d tie himself to such a timeline. He’s not playing the fans myopic “whose most popular now” stuff.


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I'd say what's ridiculous is thinking a coach like Joe Schmidt has no firm opinions on most of his players less than a year out from a world cup.

But each to their own!
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby artaneboy » November 24th, 2018, 10:32 pm

wixfjord wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
You can believe what you want; that doesn’t mean that Joe has to have similar overly rigid opinions.

If there’s one thing we do know for certain about Joe, he’s not constrained by the conventional thinking that many commentators and fans cling to.

So your- or my guesses, for that matter, may largely accord with what he eventually selects. But his processes will not shut out anyone with potential until he absolutely has to. Ridiculous to think he’d tie himself to such a timeline. He’s not playing the fans myopic “whose most popular now” stuff.


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I'd say what's ridiculous is thinking a coach like Joe Schmidt has no firm opinions on most of his players less than a year out from a world cup.

But each to their own!


I note your subtle retreat there from your initial statement of certainty: there’s a big difference between opinions- firm or otherwise, and definite positions on selection.

No matter, we’ll be around this mulberry bush again several times before the real decision is actually made.


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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby wixfjord » November 24th, 2018, 10:41 pm

artaneboy wrote:
wixfjord wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
You can believe what you want; that doesn’t mean that Joe has to have similar overly rigid opinions.

If there’s one thing we do know for certain about Joe, he’s not constrained by the conventional thinking that many commentators and fans cling to.

So your- or my guesses, for that matter, may largely accord with what he eventually selects. But his processes will not shut out anyone with potential until he absolutely has to. Ridiculous to think he’d tie himself to such a timeline. He’s not playing the fans myopic “whose most popular now” stuff.


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I'd say what's ridiculous is thinking a coach like Joe Schmidt has no firm opinions on most of his players less than a year out from a world cup.

But each to their own!


I note your subtle retreat there from your initial statement of certainty: there’s a big difference between opinions- firm or otherwise, and definite positions on selection.

No matter, we’ll be around this mulberry bush again several times before the real decision is actually made.


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You misread.

Just to be clear, I'm certain that Joe Schmidt has firm views on most of his players.

And it's ridiculous (your word) to say otherwise.
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby artaneboy » November 24th, 2018, 10:51 pm

wixfjord wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
wixfjord wrote:[quote="artaneboy"]

You can believe what you want; that doesn’t mean that Joe has to have similar overly rigid opinions.

If there’s one thing we do know for certain about Joe, he’s not constrained by the conventional thinking that many commentators and fans cling to.

So your- or my guesses, for that matter, may largely accord with what he eventually selects. But his processes will not shut out anyone with potential until he absolutely has to. Ridiculous to think he’d tie himself to such a timeline. He’s not playing the fans myopic “whose most popular now” stuff.


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I'd say what's ridiculous is thinking a coach like Joe Schmidt has no firm opinions on most of his players less than a year out from a world cup.

But each to their own!


I note your subtle retreat there from your initial statement of certainty: there’s a big difference between opinions- firm or otherwise, and definite positions on selection.

No matter, we’ll be around this mulberry bush again several times before the real decision is actually made.


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You misread.

Just to be clear, I'm certain that Joe Schmidt has firm views on most of his players and that there are at most 4-5 positions up for grabs.

And it's ridiculous (your word) to say otherwise.[/quote]

My last word: I too have firm views on the worth of players now. But I’m open/ expecting to change my views based on the new data that will emerge in the next (almost) year as players perform or don’t. I’m expecting Joe is equally open minded. Why- because that’s his demonstrated nature.

So I’m happy to embrace the “ridiculous” tag for use on those that imply he’ll set his views in concrete now. And as I said already, there’s not enough evidence good or bad that can be gleaned from that game tonight to justify such definite decisions now.


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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby Jonny tight lips » November 24th, 2018, 10:55 pm

Barry wrote:
wixfjord wrote:Conan going around in a sling. Bollocks.
Doesn't look good

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Is this true, missis robbed the TV after full time.

God I hate Munster ..... sorry that just slipped out
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby wixfjord » November 24th, 2018, 10:58 pm

artaneboy wrote:
My last word: I too have firm views on the worth of players now. But I’m open/ expecting to change my views based on the new data that will emerge in the next (almost) year as players perform or don’t. I’m expecting Joe is equally open minded. Why- because that’s his demonstrated nature.

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I would imagine so.

But he also would have strong views on his squad as of now.
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby artaneboy » November 24th, 2018, 11:17 pm

Jonny tight lips wrote:
Barry wrote:
wixfjord wrote:Conan going around in a sling. Bollocks.
Doesn't look good

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Is this true, missis robbed the TV after full time.

God I hate Munster ..... sorry that just slipped out


I empathise. “Strictly” is harsh mistress...

Seriously- I had the same sinking feeling on seeing Conan in that sling myself. That’s possibly Seanie, Dan and Jack out injured now. We have better back row resources than most- but they’re not inexhaustible.


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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby Peg Leg » November 24th, 2018, 11:24 pm

artaneboy wrote:
CiaranIrl wrote:Sweernam, Mcloskey & Arnold needed a performance for the ages to force their way in, and they didn't come with an arses roar of it.

Cooney, Scannell & Henderson won't have an easy review session either.


There’s no “way in” yet. Bar the first team and one or two of that team, Joe has no firm views on most people yet. There will be a whole series of gates and opportunities for people before next autumn and the selection of the squad. Injuries, form, balance will all vary over the next nine months. And Joe will change his mind on several of them as it unwraps. There will probably be bolsters we don’t rate in there. The politics of the last match is always attractive- but it’s very early days yet.


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It is absolutely NOT early days. There is plenty of evidence bagged from the last 4 wks that will influence 2019rwc.
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby Peg Leg » November 24th, 2018, 11:28 pm

Jonny tight lips wrote:
Barry wrote:
wixfjord wrote:Conan going around in a sling. Bollocks.
Doesn't look good

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Is this true, missis robbed the TV after full time.

God I hate Munster ..... sorry that just slipped out
Your handle is disappointed, not that I disagree.
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby blockhead » November 25th, 2018, 12:20 am

MFans are still debating if Joe is a better coach than Deccie! :lol:
Anyways, I thought Conway had a good game, Cooney did not which is a pity. Killer was good and looks lean and fit. Ringers is pure class. Chris Farrell is goin to Japan.
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby Peg Leg » November 25th, 2018, 12:23 am

blockhead wrote:MFans are still debating if Joe is a better coach than Deccie! :lol:
Anyways, I thought Conway had a good game, Cooney did not which is a pity. Killer was good and looks lean and fit. Ringers is pure class. Chris Farrell is goin to Japan.
Funny oul game.
The only thing I can add to that is: Ireland look better under Byrne at OH
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby blockhead » November 25th, 2018, 12:32 am

Peg Leg wrote:
blockhead wrote:MFans are still debating if Joe is a better coach than Deccie! :lol:
Anyways, I thought Conway had a good game, Cooney did not which is a pity. Killer was good and looks lean and fit. Ringers is pure class. Chris Farrell is goin to Japan.
Funny oul game.
The only thing I can add to that is: Ireland look better under Byrne at OH


I was going to say that too but.....Frawless looks better than both.
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby artaneboy » November 25th, 2018, 12:32 am

Peg Leg wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
CiaranIrl wrote:Sweernam, Mcloskey & Arnold needed a performance for the ages to force their way in, and they didn't come with an arses roar of it.

Cooney, Scannell & Henderson won't have an easy review session either.


There’s no “way in” yet. Bar the first team and one or two of that team, Joe has no firm views on most people yet. There will be a whole series of gates and opportunities for people before next autumn and the selection of the squad. Injuries, form, balance will all vary over the next nine months. And Joe will change his mind on several of them as it unwraps. There will probably be bolsters we don’t rate in there. The politics of the last match is always attractive- but it’s very early days yet.


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It is absolutely NOT early days. There is plenty of evidence bagged from the last 4 wks that will influence 2019rwc.


Jaysus! The RWC is almost a year away: a whole 25% of the period between the bloody things. No matter how many times it’s claimed or typed in LARGE TEXT, it’s still very EARLY DAYS in the final selection process.

Neither you nor anyone else here has any idea of who is going to be in the RWC squad or not. That’s no deficiency- nobody has that knowledge- because the man who will make it is sensible enough to leave his options option until he has to. He leaves his options open both because he can- and he has an appreciation that, amazingly seems to elude some here, that things change and evolve. People get injured- new players emerge, etc. It’s hardly an amazing insight. So he has a general hierarchy in mind- but nothing is settled now- and I repeat, certainly not on the basis of a match like tonight’s.

The tiresome bit is that some seek to pretend in defiance of logic that it’s all but sorted now. It’s a game fans play- and that’s okay once we accept it’s just that: a relatively harmless conceit.


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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby Dave Cahill » November 25th, 2018, 2:01 am

wixfjord wrote:I'd say Schmidt has his 31 in his head already, and there are probably at most 4-5 positions up for grabs.


Yeah, I'd say thats pretty much the case - the only thing that he might be pondering is how many of a particular position to take in one or two positions.

Unless someone absolutely blows the doors off between now and the end of the season there aren't going to be many surprises
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby TerenureJim » November 25th, 2018, 2:21 am

Dave Cahill wrote:
wixfjord wrote:I'd say Schmidt has his 31 in his head already, and there are probably at most 4-5 positions up for grabs.


Yeah, I'd say thats pretty much the case - the only thing that he might be pondering is how many of a particular position to take in one or two positions.

Unless someone absolutely blows the doors off between now and the end of the season there aren't going to be many surprises


There's got to be a few headaches, honestly not sure how you pick that back row from options available just insane strength in depth.

Second row Henderson is doing his best to slip away from consideration though.

If I'm Joey C I'd want Ross Byrne getting as little game time as possible.

I'd say there will be suprises, as in some big names missing out. Aside from hooker the strength in depth is incomparable to any previous Irish squad. Can't believe how well we've done without Murray. Are Sexton and Toner the only irreplaceable guys from what they bring that no one else does?
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby paddyor » November 25th, 2018, 2:39 am

Jaysus! The RWC is almost a year away: a whole 25% of the period between the bloody things. No matter how many times it’s claimed or typed in LARGE TEXT, it’s still very EARLY DAYS in the final selection process.

Neither you nor anyone else here has any idea of who is going to be in the RWC squad or not. That’s no deficiency- nobody has that knowledge- because the man who will make it is sensible enough to leave his options option until he has to. He leaves his options open both because he can- and he has an appreciation that, amazingly seems to elude some here, that things change and evolve. People get injured- new players emerge, etc. It’s hardly an amazing insight. So he has a general hierarchy in mind- but nothing is settled now- and I repeat, certainly not on the basis of a match like tonight’s.

The tiresome bit is that some seek to pretend in defiance of logic that it’s all but sorted now. It’s a game fans play- and that’s okay once we accept it’s just that: a relatively harmless conceit.


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