Ireland 2018/2019

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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby artaneboy » November 25th, 2018, 10:05 am

paddyor wrote:
Jaysus! The RWC is almost a year away: a whole 25% of the period between the bloody things. No matter how many times it’s claimed or typed in LARGE TEXT, it’s still very EARLY DAYS in the final selection process.

Neither you nor anyone else here has any idea of who is going to be in the RWC squad or not. That’s no deficiency- nobody has that knowledge- because the man who will make it is sensible enough to leave his options option until he has to. He leaves his options open both because he can- and he has an appreciation that, amazingly seems to elude some here, that things change and evolve. People get injured- new players emerge, etc. It’s hardly an amazing insight. So he has a general hierarchy in mind- but nothing is settled now- and I repeat, certainly not on the basis of a match like tonight’s.

The tiresome bit is that some seek to pretend in defiance of logic that it’s all but sorted now. It’s a game fans play- and that’s okay once we accept it’s just that: a relatively harmless conceit.


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It’s really late in the day. Ulster have 2 big games left in the HCC, they’re not making the knockouts.

Who’s gonna make this run?


Jeez- I don’t know! None of us do: that’s the point.

But alright, just to play this little game for a while; what if JGP has a remarkable HC and Pro 14 campaigns next spring- he qualifies before the RWC, does he come into the picture? Of course he does!

If Best gets injured, does Tracy with a good warm up game get a look-in? He might...

Were any of us talking about Addison even two months ago? Not that I heard. Is he the prime back up to Rob at full back now? Or has Larmour or Conway made a better case to Joe? I don’t know either- I’d be fairly confident Joe won’t make that decision or any of the other ones that will be influenced or impacted by it yet.

I’m not denying that there’s a hierarchy- a very loose one for most positions- which is what you want competition-wise. But I am challenging these smug assertions that it’s all set for most positions now- and particularly that last nights 57-14 win over a good standard tier 2 team could either nail down a position in that RWC squad or eliminate a player from consideration. And that effectively is what you were implying in your original post.

Enough.


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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby Oldschool » November 25th, 2018, 10:37 am

TerenureJim wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:
wixfjord wrote:I'd say Schmidt has his 31 in his head already, and there are probably at most 4-5 positions up for grabs.


Yeah, I'd say thats pretty much the case - the only thing that he might be pondering is how many of a particular position to take in one or two positions.

Unless someone absolutely blows the doors off between now and the end of the season there aren't going to be many surprises


There's got to be a few headaches, honestly not sure how you pick that back row from options available just insane strength in depth.

Second row Henderson is doing his best to slip away from consideration though.

If I'm Joey C I'd want Ross Byrne getting as little game time as possible.

I'd say there will be suprises, as in some big names missing out. Aside from hooker the strength in depth is incomparable to any previous Irish squad. Can't believe how well we've done without Murray. Are Sexton and Toner the only irreplaceable guys from what they bring that no one else does?

Murray, like POC, has always been overrated.
Good players undoubtedly but let's face it not irreplaceable as we have seen.
If you want an example of a great player look no further than James Ryan, already at another level to POC even at his best.
Why because there are no flaws in Ryan's game.
Even now Murray still has flaws in his game so he's good (very good) but not great.
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby Hippo » November 25th, 2018, 12:11 pm

Oldschool wrote:Murray, like POC, has always been overrated.
Good players undoubtedly but let's face it not irreplaceable as we have seen.
If you want an example of a great player look no further than James Ryan, already at another level to POC even at his best.
Why because there are no flaws in Ryan's game.
Even now Murray still has flaws in his game so he's good (very good) but not great.


Absolutely - Ryan is well ahead of POC already. His carrying, for instance, is on an altogether different level.
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby wixfjord » November 25th, 2018, 12:12 pm

Oldschool wrote:
Murray, like POC, has always been overrated.
Good players undoubtedly but let's face it not irreplaceable as we have seen.
If you want an example of a great player look no further than James Ryan, already at another level to POC even at his best.
Why because there are no flaws in Ryan's game.
Even now Murray still has flaws in his game so he's good (very good) but not great.



Me hole. Murray is one of the two best 9s in the world.

Ryan is a supreme talent, but has a bit of work on his lineout.
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby outcast eddie » November 25th, 2018, 12:33 pm

Ross Byrne just leapfrogged Joey as 2nd best out half in the country although Joey's versatility will probably get him the squad place. It's reassuring to know Leinster and Ireland have someone as good as RB in the background should Sexo go down for any reason.

I used to think Johnny was our most important game winning asset but he's been overtaken in that regard by the Ireland pack who have delivered remarkable performances over the past 12 months.
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby Peg Leg » November 25th, 2018, 1:02 pm

outcast eddie wrote:Ross Byrne just leapfrogged Joey as 2nd best out half in the country although Joey's versatility will probably get him the squad place. It's reassuring to know Leinster and Ireland have someone as good as RB in the background should Sexo go down for any reason.

I used to think Johnny was our most important game winning asset but he's been overtaken in that regard by the Ireland pack who have delivered remarkable performances over the past 12 months.
Nonsense Eddie, we do not have one iota of a clue regarding who will travel to the rwc. It is impossible for you to make such smug supposition on a rugby forum with the knowledge you have available. David Hawkshaw could be the form OH come rwc time.
So enough of your guessing or musing of the squad selection, we deal in facts here.

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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby outcast eddie » November 25th, 2018, 1:24 pm

Peg Leg wrote:
outcast eddie wrote:Ross Byrne just leapfrogged Joey as 2nd best out half in the country although Joey's versatility will probably get him the squad place. It's reassuring to know Leinster and Ireland have someone as good as RB in the background should Sexo go down for any reason.

I used to think Johnny was our most important game winning asset but he's been overtaken in that regard by the Ireland pack who have delivered remarkable performances over the past 12 months.
Nonsense Eddie, we do not have one iota of a clue regarding who will travel to the rwc. It is impossible for you to make such smug supposition on a rugby forum with the knowledge you have available. David Hawkshaw could be the form OH come rwc time.
So enough of your guessing or musing of the squad selection, we deal in facts here.

Sincerely,
Mr. T Gradgrind


Some justifiable outrage there, however your outrage has enraged me and I'm tempted to spend the rest of the afternoon typing increasingly vexed posts. But nah, I'll go over onto Munster Fans and start a fight there instead, always more entertaining.
Last edited by outcast eddie on November 25th, 2018, 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby desperado » November 25th, 2018, 1:54 pm

artaneboy wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Jaysus! The RWC is almost a year away: a whole 25% of the period between the bloody things. No matter how many times it’s claimed or typed in LARGE TEXT, it’s still very EARLY DAYS in the final selection process.

Neither you nor anyone else here has any idea of who is going to be in the RWC squad or not. That’s no deficiency- nobody has that knowledge- because the man who will make it is sensible enough to leave his options option until he has to. He leaves his options open both because he can- and he has an appreciation that, amazingly seems to elude some here, that things change and evolve. People get injured- new players emerge, etc. It’s hardly an amazing insight. So he has a general hierarchy in mind- but nothing is settled now- and I repeat, certainly not on the basis of a match like tonight’s.

The tiresome bit is that some seek to pretend in defiance of logic that it’s all but sorted now. It’s a game fans play- and that’s okay once we accept it’s just that: a relatively harmless conceit.


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It’s really late in the day. Ulster have 2 big games left in the HCC, they’re not making the knockouts.

Who’s gonna make this run?


Jeez- I don’t know! None of us do: that’s the point.

But alright, just to play this little game for a while; what if JGP has a remarkable HC and Pro 14 campaigns next spring- he qualifies before the RWC, does he come into the picture? Of course he does!

If Best gets injured, does Tracy with a good warm up game get a look-in? He might...

Were any of us talking about Addison even two months ago? Not that I heard. Is he the prime back up to Rob at full back now? Or has Larmour or Conway made a better case to Joe? I don’t know either- I’d be fairly confident Joe won’t make that decision or any of the other ones that will be influenced or impacted by it yet.

I’m not denying that there’s a hierarchy- a very loose one for most positions- which is what you want competition-wise. But I am challenging these smug assertions that it’s all set for most positions now- and particularly that last nights 57-14 win over a good standard tier 2 team could either nail down a position in that RWC squad or eliminate a player from consideration. And that effectively is what you were implying in your original post.

Enough.


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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby artaneboy » November 25th, 2018, 2:25 pm

wixfjord wrote:
Oldschool wrote:
Murray, like POC, has always been overrated.
Good players undoubtedly but let's face it not irreplaceable as we have seen.
If you want an example of a great player look no further than James Ryan, already at another level to POC even at his best.
Why because there are no flaws in Ryan's game.
Even now Murray still has flaws in his game so he's good (very good) but not great.



Me hole. Murray is one of the two best 9s in the world.

Ryan is a supreme talent, but has a bit of work on his lineout.


+1 on both.


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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby paddyor » November 25th, 2018, 3:02 pm

artaneboy wrote:
paddyor wrote:It’s really late in the day. Ulster have 2 big games left in the HCC, they’re not making the knockouts.

Who’s gonna make this run?


Jeez- I don’t know! None of us do: that’s the point.

But alright, just to play this little game for a while; what if JGP has a remarkable HC and Pro 14 campaigns next spring- he qualifies before the RWC, does he come into the picture? Of course he does!

If Best gets injured, does Tracy with a good warm up game get a look-in? He might...

Were any of us talking about Addison even two months ago? Not that I heard. Is he the prime back up to Rob at full back now? Or has Larmour or Conway made a better case to Joe? I don’t know either- I’d be fairly confident Joe won’t make that decision or any of the other ones that will be influenced or impacted by it yet.

I’m not denying that there’s a hierarchy- a very loose one for most positions- which is what you want competition-wise. But I am challenging these smug assertions that it’s all set for most positions now- and particularly that last nights 57-14 win over a good standard tier 2 team could either nail down a position in that RWC squad or eliminate a player from consideration. And that effectively is what you were implying in your original post.

Enough.


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Smug? You’ve basically admitted that a lot of players are reliant on injuries for a look in..... because it’s very late in the day
.

I think the squad is essentially the 23 vs NZ plus the injured and one or two more. It’ll kind of depend on the makeup of the 31 but there’s really only 2-3 players we can’t be sure of now. I don’t think the hierarchy is that loose, for any of that 28 to get dropped they’ll need to play badly in green.

And yes some of we’re talking about Addison as a utility back, Kinsella did an article on him iirc. He trained with the squad in Australia and Schmidt had a hand in his signing.

We obviously see things very differently. You think Cooney was unlucky, I thought it was fairly deliberate. A skill you might use occasionally in the event that both 10s get injured is less important that a skill you will use half the game.
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby artaneboy » November 25th, 2018, 4:40 pm

paddyor wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
paddyor wrote:It’s really late in the day. Ulster have 2 big games left in the HCC, they’re not making the knockouts.

Who’s gonna make this run?


Jeez- I don’t know! None of us do: that’s the point.

But alright, just to play this little game for a while; what if JGP has a remarkable HC and Pro 14 campaigns next spring- he qualifies before the RWC, does he come into the picture? Of course he does!

If Best gets injured, does Tracy with a good warm up game get a look-in? He might...

Were any of us talking about Addison even two months ago? Not that I heard. Is he the prime back up to Rob at full back now? Or has Larmour or Conway made a better case to Joe? I don’t know either- I’d be fairly confident Joe won’t make that decision or any of the other ones that will be influenced or impacted by it yet.

I’m not denying that there’s a hierarchy- a very loose one for most positions- which is what you want competition-wise. But I am challenging these smug assertions that it’s all set for most positions now- and particularly that last nights 57-14 win over a good standard tier 2 team could either nail down a position in that RWC squad or eliminate a player from consideration. And that effectively is what you were implying in your original post.

Enough.


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Smug? You’ve basically admitted that a lot of players are reliant on injuries for a look in..... because it’s very late in the day
.

I think the squad is essentially the 23 vs NZ plus the injured and one or two more. It’ll kind of depend on the makeup of the 31 but there’s really only 2-3 players we can’t be sure of now. I don’t think the hierarchy is that loose, for any of that 28 to get dropped they’ll need to play badly in green.

And yes some of we’re talking about Addison as a utility back, Kinsella did an article on him iirc. He trained with the squad in Australia and Schmidt had a hand in his signing.

We obviously see things very differently. You think Cooney was unlucky, I thought it was fairly deliberate. A skill you might use occasionally in the event that both 10s get injured is less important that a skill you will use half the game.


Yeah- I’m sure you’re right. I tell Joe straight away.


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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby fourthirtythree » November 26th, 2018, 8:24 pm

So anyway. How did Joey go at 15 with Byrne at 10? I missed it as I had this tremenjous pile of ironing...
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby CiaranIrl » November 26th, 2018, 8:48 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:So anyway. How did Joey go at 15 with Byrne at 10? I missed it as I had this tremenjous pile of ironing...


Ironing is good for the blood. I thought Ross Byrne looked good at 10, but Joey looked very out of practice and uncertain at 15.
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby wixfjord » November 26th, 2018, 9:46 pm

Ross has had a good Autumn. Nice cameo in Italy and another nice one at the weekend.

He's attacking the line much much more this year and looks far more comfortable using more complicated screen passing moves to open up defences.

Excited to see how he and Frawley go in the second half of the season.
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby Laighin Break » November 27th, 2018, 9:29 am

CiaranIrl wrote:
fourthirtythree wrote:So anyway. How did Joey go at 15 with Byrne at 10? I missed it as I had this tremenjous pile of ironing...


Ironing is good for the blood. I thought Ross Byrne looked good at 10, but Joey looked very out of practice and uncertain at 15.


I thought Ross did a great job at 10. Looked very comfortable and in control (moreso than Joey at 10).
I thought Joey was decent at fullback though - seemed to read the play well and was on hand to cover every kick the US put in behind.
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 27th, 2018, 12:19 pm

I watched the game back last night and didn't think Cooney was bad at all. Had a couple of dodgy kicks but Marmion and McGrath have too over the last few games so not sure if he'd lose much ground because of them.

Really liked the look of Ross at ten, he just looks so confident and as I've said before I reckon he's a really nice ten to play off. Bar the mix up with McCloskey (who had overran it but I think the pass should have gone to Conway) he just seemed to have people organised well and they were able to run good angles off him. Thought Joey was pretty good at fullback too, it's something I've wanted to happen for ages and whilst I wouldn't say that it demanded that he be played there again, at least it did give him a run in case injuries require it again. I liked how he immediately popped up as a playmaker in midfield after moving back.

It was unfortunate that the last 12 minutes included a knock on for Ringrose because other than that it was a really special performance by him. He had the huge hit near our 22, the chip and gather, the run across field and dummy to break free and set up Conway's try, and then the over the head dummy and step to get away at the end. You could make a good highlight reel out of that 12 minutes alone!
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby Oldschool » November 27th, 2018, 12:56 pm

wixfjord wrote:Ross has had a good Autumn. Nice cameo in Italy and another nice one at the weekend.

He's attacking the line much much more this year and looks far more comfortable using more complicated screen passing moves to open up defences.

Excited to see how he and Frawley go in the second half of the season.

It's been noticeable that since Lancaster joined up that both Sexton and Byrne have carried the ball into traffic more - JS has simple added this to the national team.
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby wixfjord » November 27th, 2018, 1:03 pm

Oldschool wrote:
wixfjord wrote:Ross has had a good Autumn. Nice cameo in Italy and another nice one at the weekend.

He's attacking the line much much more this year and looks far more comfortable using more complicated screen passing moves to open up defences.

Excited to see how he and Frawley go in the second half of the season.

It's been noticeable that since Lancaster joined up that both Sexton and Byrne have carried the ball into traffic more - JS has simple added this to the national team.


Byrne certainly wasn't doing that last season. From the first game of this year away in Cardiff it's noticeable how he has changed his style. I'd say it's more to do with Felipe (who he called out for helping him in this space) and Joe for putting pressure on him to do more.
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby Oldschool » November 27th, 2018, 1:17 pm

wixfjord wrote:
Oldschool wrote:
wixfjord wrote:Ross has had a good Autumn. Nice cameo in Italy and another nice one at the weekend.

He's attacking the line much much more this year and looks far more comfortable using more complicated screen passing moves to open up defences.

Excited to see how he and Frawley go in the second half of the season.

It's been noticeable that since Lancaster joined up that both Sexton and Byrne have carried the ball into traffic more - JS has simple added this to the national team.


Byrne certainly wasn't doing that last season. From the first game of this year away in Cardiff it's noticeable how he has changed his style. I'd say it's more to do with Felipe (who he called out for helping him in this space) and Joe for putting pressure on him to do more.

I'd forgotten about Felipe, oh dear!
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Re: Ireland 2018/2019

Postby Ruckedtobits » December 12th, 2018, 7:34 pm

Just re-viewing the Ireland v USA game and was struck by how many of the Irish Squad were born overseas. I count the following:

16. Herring: - S.Africa
3. Bealham: - Australia
19. Roux: - S. Africa
7. Murphy: - Spain
10. Carbery: - N. Z.
15. Addison: - Wales
23. Arnold: - England

That's probably the greatest number I've ever noticed.
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