Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby FLIP » February 9th, 2019, 9:15 pm

wixfjord wrote:I don't think he was. I think he tackled well, was an important part of our lineout, showed some nice touches out wide, particularly in first half, and should've gotten more from Poite in ruck.

As I say, just because he was MOTM and didn't deserve it doesn't mean he should be dropped.

Like RK, he's a guy who opposition fans love to hate, but is a very important effective part of our team.


Tackled well? He was the worst of the back row and towards the lowest in the pack with 9 tackles made. He also missed two.

Lineout there are currently no stats available for - but he didn't stand out in my eyes.

One nice touch out wide accounts for all of his 3m made for his 13 times running the ball. If he should have got more from Poite then so should Scotland seeing as he was turned over twice.

There's a massive difference between Kearney haters and POM haters. Kearney haters go on highlight failures and ignore the stats backing him up. POM haters ignore the highlight successes and actually look at the stats pointing out his ineffectiveness.
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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby wixfjord » February 9th, 2019, 9:30 pm

FLIP wrote:
wixfjord wrote:I don't think he was. I think he tackled well, was an important part of our lineout, showed some nice touches out wide, particularly in first half, and should've gotten more from Poite in ruck.

As I say, just because he was MOTM and didn't deserve it doesn't mean he should be dropped.

Like RK, he's a guy who opposition fans love to hate, but is a very important effective part of our team.


Tackled well? He was the worst of the back row and towards the lowest in the pack with 9 tackles made. He also missed two.

Lineout there are currently no stats available for - but he didn't stand out in my eyes.

One nice touch out wide accounts for all of his 3m made for his 13 times running the ball. If he should have got more from Poite then so should Scotland seeing as he was turned over twice.

There's a massive difference between Kearney haters and POM haters. Kearney haters go on highlight failures and ignore the stats backing him up. POM haters ignore the highlight successes and actually look at the stats pointing out his ineffectiveness.


Yes, he was impactful.

Look at his role in Stockdale try for eg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y63o6B6-4lc

Your point about Poite doesn't make sense to me.

I think you're focusing on stats too much tbh. They're not the full story. Conan made a shedload of tackles on paper but didn't stand out to me.

POM was chosen as MOTM today by one of the best backrows to have played the game. Now I and many others don't think he deserved it. I'm not saying he was excellent or had one of his best games, but I also don't think he was poor. There's a middle ground.

But like RK, people start with an opinion and look for any evidence to support that I think.
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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby brenno » February 9th, 2019, 10:08 pm

Simply cant understand how the Scots keep persevering with Laidlaw, he's grade A useless - and apart from goal kicking he offers feck all. Can understand why with Price, Pyrgos and Hildago-Clyne, Townsend keeps picking him
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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby neiliog93 » February 9th, 2019, 10:40 pm

RK was the clear MOTM. I was surprised he played so well.

We were poor today and a better side than Scotland would have beaten us comfortably by taking the 3-4 clear cut chances they fluffed.
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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby blockhead » February 9th, 2019, 11:57 pm

Yes, we were poor today and on this evidence we will lose at least one more game before the end of the 6Ns.
Wales away looks like a match too far.
Re POM, I don't see what he does apart from the odd lineout steal and ruck pens but Joe keeps picking him and I think Joe is a fine selector. So Joe think's hes good enough and that's good enough for me.
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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby Logorrhea » February 10th, 2019, 12:50 am

blockhead wrote:Joe keeps picking him and I think Joe is a fine selector. So Joe think's hes good enough and that's good enough for me.


+1. Hard to go wrong when you stick to that logic.
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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby paddyor » February 10th, 2019, 1:00 am

brenno wrote:Simply cant understand how the Scots keep persevering with Laidlaw, he's grade A useless - and apart from goal kicking he offers feck all. Can understand why with Price, Pyrgos and Hildago-Clyne, Townsend keeps picking him

Eh, the latter has gone backwards in the past year. Was sent packing by Cockerill as someone with the wrong attitude. Pyrgos isn't a test player, grand at P14 or HEc level but not up to much more. Price is too much of a livewire to pair with Russell. It completely backfired the last time they played together vs Wales. The golakicking is pretty important when you've got someone as flaky as Russell with the boot, I also thought his box kicking was very good today and last week. Georgen Horne will be an option.

He's a weird pick for Scotlands problems. If you throw in Price....you get the Max Power way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P0JM3h7IQk

Like overall I'd say his execution was better than Murrays. I really can't think of anythyng he's doing well right now.
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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby suisse » February 10th, 2019, 1:24 am

I wasn't as worried as I should have been but we still claimed that 7-10 point win. Ireland's pack was always going to decide the game so I couldn't understand why Scotland kept trying to take us on in the first half. They should have kicked their points although maybe the conditions were awful. A few things:

* Sexton's conversion for Murray's try was brutal but our 9 has to go to the posts. Keith Earls was pointing at him to do so. There wasn't a Scot within 15 meters but he was too busy showboating. The kick wasn't good but every time a man crosses, instinctively he looks to make the kick easier for his 10. It was a good chase from him on the kick but that was poor.

* Carbery had a very good second half but some people are losing their way. We were 3-12 when he came on and only a poor pass bang on half time stopped us going in behind. He deserves monumental credit for not letting that first half horror show affect him. The intercept didn't bother me as much as his reaction to it.. He saw Earls had made the tackle. Carbery should have been looking over his shoulder to see where the supporting runner was. Instead he ran left towards the posts allowing Johnson to stroll home. However, he was good in the second half. His penalty touch finders are long and that left to right pass was glorious.

* A very good 80 mins from Rob Kearney. He made the most meters and always looked like making a clean break in the second half. But he needs to find the man on his shoulder. He makes a great break but takes the ball into contact too often. Once I remember Murray was on his right shoulder. It wasn't even a risky pass.

Our set pieces were excellent. The bench made an impact especially Kilcoyne and Dillane. Not sure why David Nucifora publicly name checks John Cooney as s success story in terms of moving provinces when he gets 6.5 mins of rugby in 2 games even though Murray is having a mare..Schmidt's lack of trust in numbers b21 and 22 is one of his very few faults.
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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby RoboProp » February 10th, 2019, 8:14 am

I hate to say it but this 6N Joe has been Kidneyesque in his reluctance to use the bench. Cronin and Cooney should have been on much much earlier
And Jesus H bald headed Christ on a cracker how many boxes must have been kicked with 0 chasers.
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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby Oldschool » February 10th, 2019, 9:04 am

RoboProp wrote:I hate to say it but this 6N Joe has been Kidneyesque in his reluctance to use the bench. Cronin and Cooney should have been on much much earlier
And Jesus H bald headed Christ on a cracker how many boxes must have been kicked with 0 chasers.

+1
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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby Oldschool » February 10th, 2019, 9:27 am

A little exercise on Joe's poor selection performance.
Yesterday's 23 and possible improvements
RK
Earls(Larmour
Farrell
Aki
Stockdale
Sexton
Murray/Cooney
Healy
Best(Cronin
Furlong
Roux
Ryan
POM/SOB
VDF
Conan
Bench
Cronin/Best, Kilcoyne, Porter, Dillane, Ruddock
Cooney/Slade Carbery, Larmour(Earls.
Would also be giving serious consideration to benching Sexton.
So Joe has got 2 players in his 23 that aren't performing.
And 2 others who should be benched and that's perhaps been a tad unfair to Earls.
For Joe that's a lot of selection errors particularly given the evidence.
Sexton too should come under the microscope, I suspect he was carrying an injury from the start, which would have meant Carty on the bench.
If we go to the RWC with Best starting we'll have blown it.
Time unfortunately waits for no man.
Joe, in selecting Murray, is putting other players at risk of injury and it's time he copped on to this fact.
Last edited by Oldschool on February 10th, 2019, 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby Gearzbox2 » February 10th, 2019, 9:38 am

Oldschool wrote:A little exercise on Joe's poor selection performance.
Yesterday's 23 and possible improvements
RK
Earls(Larmour
Farrell
Aki
Stockdale
Sexton
Murray/Cooney
Healy
Best(Cronin
Furlong
Roux
Ryan
POM/SOB
VDF
Conan
Bench
Cronin/Best, Kilcoyne, Porter, Dillane, Ruddock
Cooney/Slade Carbery, Larmour(Earls.
Would also be giving serious consideration to benching Sexton.
So Joe has got 2 players in his 23 that aren't performing.
And 2 others who should be benched and that's perhaps been a tad unfair to Earls.
For Joe that's a lot of selection areas particularly given the evidence.
Sexton too should come under the microscope, I suspect he was carrying an injury from the start, which would have meant Carty on the bench.
If we go to the RWC with Best starting we'll have blown it.
Time unfortunately waits for no man.
Joe, in selecting Murray, is putting other players at risk of injury and it's time he copped on to this fact.


Sorry to say but Joe ain’t gonna drop Murray, no way no how!!!...his use of the bench has been shocking
He’s 2 guys in particular in cronin and Cooney who are playing rugby of their careers at the moment
One got 8 mins the other got 6 so read into that however you want
From a Leinster perspective Cronin must fuming at this stage, couldn’t be playing better and still only gets 8 mins behind a 36 year old whos clearly on the wane who offers little around the park but is still kept on for 72 mins in a test match
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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby dropkick » February 10th, 2019, 10:54 am

Didn't surprise me in the slightest to see POM get motm. He was heavily involved and it's the forwards that won the game.


It might have been Kearney but he butchered some good chances.


RoboProp wrote:I hate to say it but this 6N Joe has been Kidneyesque in his reluctance to use the bench. Cronin and Cooney should have been on much much earlier
And Jesus H bald headed Christ on a cracker how many boxes must have been kicked with 0 chasers.



There are chasers but the opposition are putting a forest of players between them and the ball. The sad thing is if they're doing that there must be a shortage of defenders somewhere else but Ireland don't look to attack space.


I'd agree about leaving him on too long. If he's off form which he is then put on a fresh sub.


It was a horrible game to watch. Aki is usually good for a few mistakes per match but the last 2 matches he can't do anything right. The attack is very blunt.


At least it was a win which is important seeing as the Scots are in our world cup group.
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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby wixfjord » February 10th, 2019, 11:12 am

I think yesterday showed again how important a fit Ringrose is to our backline.

We do struggle to break teams down at times.

Henshaw would be my 12 too. Aki gives you a lot, but at test level I think struggles with distribution a bit.
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Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby thecomedian » February 10th, 2019, 11:14 am

Aki’s passing isn’t good enough, the never gets out quick enough when he’s at 12.
As for him playing 1st receiver at times it just doesn’t work in open play.

I do think he is a good player but when he is 12 for Ireland it just doesn’t do it for me.

Edit : I didn’t see the post above.
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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby OTT » February 10th, 2019, 11:53 am

I thought Sexton played well he was back attacking the line like he does so well which is why he took all those hits. Carbery looked like a super talented guy picked off the street who didn’t know any of the plays. He got by with a bit of individual brilliance for the Earls try but other then a loop off Rory Best just after he came on we looked like a back line who hadn’t met before the game in his time on the pitch.

Now we can blame Joe again if he hides Joey somewhere and doesn’t give him access to how we want to play or we can say that Joe doesn’t trust Joey because he lacks (currently) the nous to control a test match like this, I’d say it’s probably the latter. I think I’d start Murray and Joey versus Italy. Joey will only get better by playing and Murray hopefully will play himself into form. Johnny can rest up for the week. Joey is such a talented player but the jury is still out if he’s a proper 10 for me nothing new from his Leinster days. Going by the way he’s undertaken to successfully improving his goal kicking I’d say he will get there.
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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby Oldschool » February 10th, 2019, 12:01 pm

It's hard to believe that Joe has lost the plot.
Therefore the only rationale that explains his tactics so far is the RWC.
For fear that our opponents might read these pages (or more likely lazy journalists who want us to do their thinking for them) I'm not going to explain my analysis. :twisted:
In Joe we trust. That and a bit of denial.
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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby ronk » February 10th, 2019, 12:02 pm

OTT wrote:I thought Sexton played well he was back attacking the line like he does so well which is why he took all those hits. Carbery looked like a super talented guy picked off the street who didn’t know any of the plays. He got by with a bit of individual brilliance for the Earls try but other then a loop off Rory Best just after he came on we looked like a back line who hadn’t met before the game in his time on the pitch.

Now we can blame Joe again if he hides Joey somewhere and doesn’t give him access to how we want to play or we can say that Joe doesn’t trust Joey because he lacks (currently) the nous to control a test match like this, I’d say it’s probably the latter. I think I’d start Murray and Joey versus Italy. Joey will only get better by playing and Murray hopefully will play himself into form. Johnny can rest up for the week. Joey is such a talented player but the jury is still out if he’s a proper 10 for me nothing new from his Leinster days. Going by the way he’s undertaken to successfully improving his goal kicking I’d say he will get there.


He moved to Munster and got to play so that this wouldn’t have to happen at international level. He’s played with all the back line and at club level too for everyone except Aki and Stockdale. It’s easy to make bullshit excuses. He played ok, he mixed good and bad. We won’t learn anything we don’t already know against Italy. We know he can cut teams apart when he has the platform.
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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby OTT » February 10th, 2019, 12:09 pm

ronk wrote:
OTT wrote:I thought Sexton played well he was back attacking the line like he does so well which is why he took all those hits. Carbery looked like a super talented guy picked off the street who didn’t know any of the plays. He got by with a bit of individual brilliance for the Earls try but other then a loop off Rory Best just after he came on we looked like a back line who hadn’t met before the game in his time on the pitch.

Now we can blame Joe again if he hides Joey somewhere and doesn’t give him access to how we want to play or we can say that Joe doesn’t trust Joey because he lacks (currently) the nous to control a test match like this, I’d say it’s probably the latter. I think I’d start Murray and Joey versus Italy. Joey will only get better by playing and Murray hopefully will play himself into form. Johnny can rest up for the week. Joey is such a talented player but the jury is still out if he’s a proper 10 for me nothing new from his Leinster days. Going by the way he’s undertaken to successfully improving his goal kicking I’d say he will get there.


He moved to Munster and got to play so that this wouldn’t have to happen at international level. He’s played with all the back line and at club level too for everyone except Aki and Stockdale. It’s easy to make bullshit excuses. He played ok, he mixed good and bad. We won’t learn anything we don’t already know against Italy. We know he can cut teams apart when he has the platform.


I can’t defend a position I didn’t take so not sure what bullshit excuses I made for Carbery imo not playing well.

Will we learn anything by playing Sexton versus Italy?
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Re: Scotland vs Ireland, Sat 9th Feb 14.15

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » February 10th, 2019, 1:28 pm

OTT wrote:I thought Sexton played well he was back attacking the line like he does so well which is why he took all those hits. Carbery looked like a super talented guy picked off the street who didn’t know any of the plays. He got by with a bit of individual brilliance for the Earls try but other then a loop off Rory Best just after he came on we looked like a back line who hadn’t met before the game in his time on the pitch.



I know what you mean about not knowing the plays but I don't think that only relates to Joey and his control at ten. I know we have done some good things (Stockdale's try was brilliant and Joey did put Rob away beautifully a couple of times) but I think we're making a scary number of errors off planned moves at the moment. I don't just mean poor passes or decisions, I mean players don't actually seem to know what they're meant to do or where they're meant to be. Remember last week when Earls and CJ (think it was them, might be wrong) ran into each other off one move? Or when Josh ran the wrong line? That actually led to Ringrose being turned over and England scored off the resulting scrum. How many kicks have we seen where we haven't had chasers? How many times has the first receiver looked up to make a pass but had tuck the ball under their arm and take it into contact because the players outside him are in the wrong place? I know a rush defence will have an impact there but we definitely haven't helped ourselves by being on our heels or too deep/flat etc. I was surprised it happened against England but every team has off days, I was shocked it happened again yesterday though.

Joey did do well overall but watching him made me think that I really want Ross Byrne in the World Cup squad. If Joey ends up starting a big World Cup game then there is no better option to have on the bench than Byrne. Whether Joe likes it or not Joey just isn't a solid presence out there 100% of the time and IMO Ross is just so solid and assured that he would be the perfect safety blanket.

Apropos of nothing, I know he's had very limited game time and both matches have been over by the time he came on but Cooney has looked really comfortable out there. Right now I would go with Sexton, Joey, Ross, Murray, and Cooney as the halfbacks for Japan.
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