Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » March 11th, 2019, 2:29 pm

Sorry RTB but that's a real bug bear of mine. We would not have been 31-0 up if we'd got those penalties. The entire game changes with every different decision, so if we decided to kick for goal then the next play is receiving a restart instead of throwing a lineout. Literally every single passage of play changes.

I also think that we were deliberately trying to play ball instead of taking points because we needed to kickstart ourselves after the last few games. Plus it was a Sunday afternoon game in poor conditions, a recipe for a flat performance.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby Laighin Break » March 11th, 2019, 2:43 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:All round good attacking performance but only adequate finishing, bar tries from Sexton and Earls. The tries from Best and Stander were what we should have had on at least three further occasions and the "missed" tries from Healy and Ringrose looked sloppy by their standards.

The reintroduction of the big players was very evident and it was great to have them back. The injection of tempo when Cooney, Carty and Dillane arrived was noticable but generally our execution and intent lacked the precision necessary to impress Joe.

Larmour's late, searing break was beautiful to watch but he must learn to off-load to others in a better position, when he has created such a gash in the defence. He certainly should have off-loaded left today, 10m short of the French line.

Henshaw, if fit, should come in for Bundee next week. Hopefully, Leavy in and Tadgh Byrne and SO'B on the bench. I'd also like to see Jack McGrath back-in the match-day 23 as Killer's scrumming technique scares the S# 1T out of me. BTW, PO'M stills needs work on his tackling.


Don't give Stander credit for Conan's work!
I thought the same on Larmour's break initially, but in the replay he didn't really have any clear options to offload or pass to someone in a better position, and there was no one out to the left of him.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby Flash Gordon » March 11th, 2019, 3:20 pm

Edna Kenny wrote:
OTT wrote:Could there be a simple way to card people.

You give up 6 penalties (or some specific number)and you get a yellow maybe?

If there is an incident of foul play/cynical play that warrants a yellow in its own right then you get the yellow but the penalty is not added towards your card count.

It seems to random at the minute. Another ref could have had 2 French guys in the bin by the time they finally got one in the 66th minute and we would have probably put another couple of trys on them.

Would it not make it easier on the ref to sort of take that decision out of his hands, although we all might look at and scrutinise the actual penalties he gives more closely. We just don't seem to get the rewards for our discipline that we should imo


Ref's seem to wipe the slate clean after half time too. Also, when Sexton scored his try, there was an advantage. I am sure that there would have been a card if it had been called back for the panalty.


The sanctions are there, the variable is the standard of the ref. You can't really put in place a formula for carding as all penalties ar enot equal - being slightly over the offside line or being offisde from a knock on are not the same as pulling down a maul on the line.

The point non half time is bang on.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby Oldschool » March 11th, 2019, 3:39 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Sorry RTB but that's a real bug bear of mine. We would not have been 31-0 up if we'd got those penalties. The entire game changes with every different decision, so if we decided to kick for goal then the next play is receiving a restart instead of throwing a lineout. Literally every single passage of play changes.

I also think that we were deliberately trying to play ball instead of taking points because we needed to kickstart ourselves after the last few games. Plus it was a Sunday afternoon game in poor conditions, a recipe for a flat performance.

Very interesting discussion.
If we'd been playing Wales yeah take the points on offer, keep the scoreboard ticking over.
Against the current France team you want to test their fitness, they broke.
I'd have preferred to do the one, two on them.
The early first try gave us the opportunity to kick the next peno. 10-0. Next peno go to the corner and so on regardless of whether you get a try or not.
While we might not have scored 31 we probably would have scored more than 19.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby Oldschool » March 11th, 2019, 3:42 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
wixfjord wrote:Stander was excellent yesterday. Really got us going forward and tackled like a demon. He and Hendo really added a lot, and the rest of the pack upped their performances too.

This thing of kicking high on penalty advantage is strange. Rarely if ever works.

On Stockdale, it’s strange to say but if he didn’t score so many tries I’d doubt he’d be picked! Very selfish, tentative under high ball and gets turned over in contact a good bit.
But he’s by far our most dangerous back three player and a key man in strike moves.


I think Stander adds an awful lot in terms of the energy and enthusiasm he brings. I don't think it's a coincidence that our flattest performance in years came when he had a broken face and was taken off early. Seeing him sprint past Sexton when he came out of the tunnel made me think that we were going to perform much better than recent weeks. His hands for Earls' try were really good too, people are so critical of him not passing but that was brilliant and seems to be going under the radar.

I don't like us kicking when we have advantage but I could see the logic yesterday. I suspect that the thinking was that we weren't set up to run the ball (although think we could have the first time, but not the second) so just put it up on Huget because chances are he'll have switched off and be out of position, and even if he hasn't then the conditions made a catch really difficult. So didn't mind us doing it, but did think that Earls was very slow to get up there both times.

Stockdale was a bit hesitant and out of position a couple of times yesterday but I don't think it's a regular thing, usually like his work in the air. Larmour can get caught under the ball a bit, and also hesitates when he has to run onto it. I have a feeling that he's too worried about leaving his 22 exposed when he's sitting deep so is afraid to commit to balls between the 22 and the 10, but then overcommits to high balls when he pushes forward and there's more cover behind him. Still thought he played well, but that area does need a of work.

Earls is not a great target for a cross kick to the corner but the tactic is reasonable.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby leinster23 » March 11th, 2019, 10:51 pm

Laighin Break wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:All round good attacking performance but only adequate finishing, bar tries from Sexton and Earls. The tries from Best and Stander were what we should have had on at least three further occasions and the "missed" tries from Healy and Ringrose looked sloppy by their standards.

The reintroduction of the big players was very evident and it was great to have them back. The injection of tempo when Cooney, Carty and Dillane arrived was noticable but generally our execution and intent lacked the precision necessary to impress Joe.

Larmour's late, searing break was beautiful to watch but he must learn to off-load to others in a better position, when he has created such a gash in the defence. He certainly should have off-loaded left today, 10m short of the French line.

Henshaw, if fit, should come in for Bundee next week. Hopefully, Leavy in and Tadgh Byrne and SO'B on the bench. I'd also like to see Jack McGrath back-in the match-day 23 as Killer's scrumming technique scares the S# 1T out of me. BTW, PO'M stills needs work on his tackling.


Don't give Stander credit for Conan's work!
I thought the same on Larmour's break initially, but in the replay he didn't really have any clear options to offload or pass to someone in a better position, and there was no one out to the left of him.

I thought the support was actually really poor for his break, no one really bothered to get into a position where he could pass it.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby Dexter » March 12th, 2019, 1:28 pm

Flash Gordon wrote:
Edna Kenny wrote:
OTT wrote:Could there be a simple way to card people.

You give up 6 penalties (or some specific number)and you get a yellow maybe?

If there is an incident of foul play/cynical play that warrants a yellow in its own right then you get the yellow but the penalty is not added towards your card count.

It seems to random at the minute. Another ref could have had 2 French guys in the bin by the time they finally got one in the 66th minute and we would have probably put another couple of trys on them.

Would it not make it easier on the ref to sort of take that decision out of his hands, although we all might look at and scrutinise the actual penalties he gives more closely. We just don't seem to get the rewards for our discipline that we should imo


Ref's seem to wipe the slate clean after half time too. Also, when Sexton scored his try, there was an advantage. I am sure that there would have been a card if it had been called back for the panalty.


The sanctions are there, the variable is the standard of the ref. You can't really put in place a formula for carding as all penalties ar enot equal - being slightly over the offside line or being offisde from a knock on are not the same as pulling down a maul on the line.

The point non half time is bang on.

Probably for a separate thread, but does anyone think that negative tactics are being rewarded a bit more now, or maybe just officiated too leniently ? Maybe the referees just aren't being strong enough. For example, the continued ignoring of the offside line...
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby Laighin Break » March 12th, 2019, 4:14 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Now that you mention it Olaf, I can remember Gardner but can't even think of who the other AR was.

As an aside, I think this whole idea of "onfield decision" and removing power from the TMO has been a disaster. I can see why they wanted to reduce the time spent reviewing things but it hasn't worked IMO.


I think the "onfield decision" is reasonable - it's similar to "any reason I cannot award the try" in this case. But the ref should have a good reason to make that onfield decision. Maybe he could see a grounding, but it seems very unlikely.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » March 12th, 2019, 5:07 pm

Laighin Break wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Now that you mention it Olaf, I can remember Gardner but can't even think of who the other AR was.

As an aside, I think this whole idea of "onfield decision" and removing power from the TMO has been a disaster. I can see why they wanted to reduce the time spent reviewing things but it hasn't worked IMO.


I think the "onfield decision" is reasonable - it's similar to "any reason I cannot award the try" in this case. But the ref should have a good reason to make that onfield decision. Maybe he could see a grounding, but it seems very unlikely.


I don't disagree with that in theory, and can see how it works in certain situations like a probable grounding. But there are too many instances now where the ref is too cocksure about his own decision or backs his AR when they really shouldn't. Farrell against South Africa, Owens not giving a red last week, and Garces not asking for the forward pass to be checked in the England game all spring to mind. For the last one the TMO actually asked "are you sure you don't want to check the pass?". That kind of thing is utter nonsense, if the TMO sees something obvious then they should speak up.

They're big decisions too. The Farrell one might have won England the game and changed the atmosphere around that England team. The forward pass (and I'll fight anyone who says it wasn't) probably put that game beyond us and led to us chasing the game, conceding a BP try, losing out on a LBP, and made it highly unlikely that we could win the championship.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby johng » March 12th, 2019, 7:43 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:The forward pass (and I'll fight anyone who says it wasn't)

I hear Billy Vunipola is fairly adamant about it....
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » March 12th, 2019, 10:40 pm

johng wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:The forward pass (and I'll fight anyone who says it wasn't)

I hear Billy Vunipola is fairly adamant about it....


Obviously I meant anonymously on the internet, so get him a login and bring it on!
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby neiliog93 » March 13th, 2019, 1:16 am

Non-refereeing of the offside is threatening to destroy the game as spectacle. It's a joke. They should have an extra touchjudge just to watch offside if necessary.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby Oldschool » March 13th, 2019, 10:04 am

johng wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:The forward pass (and I'll fight anyone who says it wasn't)

I hear Billy Vunipola is fairly adamant about it....

Did he tell you how to beat Wales too?
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby backrower8 » March 13th, 2019, 10:45 am

neiliog93 wrote:Non-refereeing of the offside is threatening to destroy the game as spectacle. It's a joke. They should have an extra touchjudge just to watch offside if necessary.


Agree on how it is a scourge on the game and ridiculous that the 4 officials that are already on the job do not actually do their job. Ringrose was actually penalised for offside at the ruck last Saturday. I was actually relieved to see it happen. He was standing well away from the ruck but they never penalise players standing half way up the ruck…with the exception being Courtney Lawes knockdown against New Zealand.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby leinsterforever » March 13th, 2019, 4:38 pm

How did Kilcoyne get away with that scrummaging? Keeping selecting him is playing with fire. When there's a ref who'll penalise driving in at an angle he'll become a liability.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby ronk » March 13th, 2019, 6:26 pm

leinsterforever wrote:How did Kilcoyne get away with that scrummaging? Keeping selecting him is playing with fire. When there's a ref who'll penalise driving in at an angle he'll become a liability.


He got a shove on for the 1st scrum and the ref zeroed straight on the sub for subsequent problems.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby backrower8 » March 14th, 2019, 2:15 pm

I was in Dublin’s Merrion Hotel yesterday afternoon and couldn’t believe my eyes seeing the French squad walking around in their tracksuits with a few of them going into Guilbaud’s for lunch!!

Apparently they have stayed on all week and are training in Wanderers and then going straight to Rome.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby outcast eddie » March 14th, 2019, 2:18 pm

Sacre bleu!
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » March 14th, 2019, 2:43 pm

Wales have been doing something similar so as to replicate the World Cup somewhat.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby ronk » March 14th, 2019, 8:28 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Wales have been doing something similar so as to replicate the World Cup somewhat.


Probably different restaurants
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