Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby Ruckedtobits » March 11th, 2019, 9:44 am

neiliog93 wrote:Good first half, but should have absolutely put them to the sword. I do feel Gardner's refereeing contributed to keeping them in the game in the second half - he let their fatties flop everywhere in the rucks and the try call was farcical.


I'd be even more critical of his performance in the first half where he allowed continual infringements within 5m of their line without any yellow card sanctions or, on one occasion, a penalty try after three maul infringements.

Four scrum penalties within 4 minutes were in front of me and the 2nd & 3rd penalties were poor as Killer "hinged" on both occasions, but got the decision went for him. O'Keeffe is anoth SH Ref who is poor at decisions involving scrum, maul and breakdown. He also doesn't signal when he's playing advantage which makes assessment of the play going, impossible.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby Ruckedtobits » March 11th, 2019, 9:45 am

My match recording failed, anybody know whether there is a full match download available?
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby Blueberry » March 11th, 2019, 9:46 am

An improvement with Ringers ( he is a different class), Ryan, Furlong, Sexton, Henderson, Conan, Earls and Healy all shining. Murray better than he has been but still looks so laboured, needs lots more rugby. Jury out on the front row replacements but Cooney looked good and some nice touches from Carty. Henshaw at 12 will improve us further and we do need to look at the back row. Angry face is giving very little ATM bar his lineout work and Stander did his usual running into contact crap. Conan looked far better. For me a Ruddock, Conan and VDF/Leavy backrow is what I would like to see starting.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby Twist » March 11th, 2019, 10:24 am

I had a very uneasy feeling after the game that hasn't left me

The gap between the first and second tries was far too big. We were utterly rampant but needed around 7 chances before we got over. I can't imagine Wales or England being kept out that long by a beaten team

Then we conceded far too easily towards the end. We really did nothing once the yellow card came out.

That was never a 12 point game, it's concerning to me that it was that close on the scoreboard. We won't be nearly so dominant against Wales or SA/NZ. Frankly I don't think we'll dominate Japan to that extent


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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby OTT » March 11th, 2019, 10:39 am

Thought Ringrose and Ryan were brilliant. They looked real fresh, gave us so much energy, the pair of them were relentless. Thought the 36 year old man was excellent also, looking ahead to next year when he is gone the cupboard is bare enough for Ireland, there are a good few guys of a level just below Best for me hopefully one or two of them can push on.

The French usually choose us to decide to make the effort, I thought yesterday they did not show any of that intent. A constant feature of matches this season both at club and international level has been the speed of defences bordering on offside the whole time (or usually offside imo lol) France never looked offside to me and I think that is an attitude thing, they looked lazy in defence. Whatever about the coaches not knowing what they want if the players won't show an interest in getting off the line to stop the opposition you have a real problem. We left some points out there for sure and conceded a few cheap trys at the end but for me we were about 40 points better then that French team without being perfect ourselves.

Our expectations are through the roof, which is brilliant but at the same time massively unfair, we don't think we should lose any game (England) and when we don't win by the margin we think we should we piss on our performances (Scotland and Italy). It is not a bad place to be in really is it. Tough game next week against the Welsh, they have played worse against Italy, Scotland and France then we did but they were on it against England and have won 12 in a row so the story goes they are on fire . Much as the narrative about us being out of sorts is not true I don't buy that they are in the form of their lives either. It should be another titanic arm wrestle next week which you now expect from the majority of 6 nations matches.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby wixfjord » March 11th, 2019, 10:40 am

Stander was excellent yesterday. Really got us going forward and tackled like a demon. He and Hendo really added a lot, and the rest of the pack upped their performances too.

Delighted for Jack too, he really vindicated his selection. I would agree with Twist above though, while it was a much improved performance we still looked a bit toothless at times. This thing of kicking high on penalty advantage is strange. Rarely if ever works.

For me, I’d have Henshaw in ahead of Aki in a heartbeat.
Aki is a cracking player, but can often be nullified and he doesn’t have the passing game that I think we need.

You saw yesterday that Sexton was less pressurised with Ringrose running lines outside him and I think the whole thing would go up another 5-10% with Henshaw there too.

On Stockdale, it’s strange to say but if he didn’t score so many tries I’d doubt he’d be picked! Very selfish, tentative under high ball and gets turned over in contact a good bit.
But he’s by far our most dangerous back three player and a key man in strike moves.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby Oldschool » March 11th, 2019, 11:02 am

It's a cliche that you learn more from a loss than a win.
This game is the exception that proves the rule..
The winners and losers.
Big Winners. Conan had a great, Cronin and Jack McGrath.
Winners. Larmour, Carty and Cooney.
Losers. Kilcoyne, Scannell and POM.
For Joe it was win win, a case of having his cake (a bp win and able to bench early) and eating it (test fringe players).
POM's loss was his decision making in calling the series of scrums. When Bambi came back on, the decision should have been to kick to the corner (I'd have gone for this option earlier, we had the bp, have a six day turnaround etc etc)
Bambi exposed Kilcoyne and Scannell scrummaging ergo Sean and Jack two happy bunnies.
Larmour, Carty and Cooney got great match time and didn't disappoint.
Joe's main concern has to be the continued form of his first choice SH.
He will be pleased with the improved performance but not overly impressed. It was the right kind of result and performance prior to next week's game.
A great win given out historical mental brittleness against the French.
We won't go into the Welsh game overly confident but...
Footnote 1. POM's tackling technique has always been suspect.
Footnote 2. Joe was quite emotional in the post match interview, a nice reaction to see. We'll miss him and by the looks of things he'll miss us (well the players anyway et al).
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby TrapperChamonix » March 11th, 2019, 11:15 am

The lead up to Conan's try showed how utterly incompetent the French were. Sexton and Aki (I think) both took ball and ran around the back of their own ruck and the French defense had not moved 1 inch forward. Do France have a defense coach?

I cant think of a worse performance by a top tier team in Lansdowne Road. We were 2 tiny errors away from a 5 try lead at half time. I havn't look at the French press but I'd be surprised if they dont savage the team and the Management
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » March 11th, 2019, 12:15 pm

I think people are ignoring the conditions when they talk about us racking up points quicker than we did. The ball was like a bar of soap at times early on, to me the notable thing was that we controlled possession so well in those circumstances, not that we wasted some opportunities. We were totally dominant and went 26-0 up in awful conditions, to be critical in that situation really is a bit much IMO.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » March 11th, 2019, 12:31 pm

wixfjord wrote:Stander was excellent yesterday. Really got us going forward and tackled like a demon. He and Hendo really added a lot, and the rest of the pack upped their performances too.

This thing of kicking high on penalty advantage is strange. Rarely if ever works.

On Stockdale, it’s strange to say but if he didn’t score so many tries I’d doubt he’d be picked! Very selfish, tentative under high ball and gets turned over in contact a good bit.
But he’s by far our most dangerous back three player and a key man in strike moves.


I think Stander adds an awful lot in terms of the energy and enthusiasm he brings. I don't think it's a coincidence that our flattest performance in years came when he had a broken face and was taken off early. Seeing him sprint past Sexton when he came out of the tunnel made me think that we were going to perform much better than recent weeks. His hands for Earls' try were really good too, people are so critical of him not passing but that was brilliant and seems to be going under the radar.

I don't like us kicking when we have advantage but I could see the logic yesterday. I suspect that the thinking was that we weren't set up to run the ball (although think we could have the first time, but not the second) so just put it up on Huget because chances are he'll have switched off and be out of position, and even if he hasn't then the conditions made a catch really difficult. So didn't mind us doing it, but did think that Earls was very slow to get up there both times.

Stockdale was a bit hesitant and out of position a couple of times yesterday but I don't think it's a regular thing, usually like his work in the air. Larmour can get caught under the ball a bit, and also hesitates when he has to run onto it. I have a feeling that he's too worried about leaving his 22 exposed when he's sitting deep so is afraid to commit to balls between the 22 and the 10, but then overcommits to high balls when he pushes forward and there's more cover behind him. Still thought he played well, but that area does need a of work.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby fourthirtythree » March 11th, 2019, 12:32 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I think people are ignoring the conditions when they talk about us racking up points quicker than we did. The ball was like a bar of soap at times early on, to me the notable thing was that we controlled possession so well in those circumstances, not that we wasted some opportunities. We were totally dominant and went 26-0 up in awful conditions, to be critical in that situation really is a bit much IMO.


Yeah, I saw someone criticise Ringrose for not picking up the pass that hit the ground in front of him. It was wet, he was at full stretch and got fingertips to it, had he picked it up it would have been extraordinary, not something you just should do. That said not scoring later when he had done the hard part was disappointing. There were a few wayward passes that didn't help the receiver though.

Also as R2B pointed out the persistent infringing on their line and repeated warnings was a bit of a joke.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby Flash Gordon » March 11th, 2019, 12:52 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I think people are ignoring the conditions when they talk about us racking up points quicker than we did. The ball was like a bar of soap at times early on, to me the notable thing was that we controlled possession so well in those circumstances, not that we wasted some opportunities. We were totally dominant and went 26-0 up in awful conditions, to be critical in that situation really is a bit much IMO.


To a certain extent that's true. It was as cold and wild as I've ever experienced at Lansdowne Road. However, it wasn't the conditions that caused some of the failure to execute - the lost scrum because we didn't hook for example.

The 3 stand out performers for me were Church, Ringrose and Ryan. Church played like a man possessed and had his best game for a long time. Ringrose looked very dangerous with ball in hand - though he might be called in for extra tackle practice this week....... Conan and Larmour definitely took their opportunities well, Conan is an international class 8 and has given Joe something to think about, he made 16 tackles in a game where the French hardly touched the ball demonstrating a ferocious appetite for work. Larmour with ball in hand is trully exceptional and he's still learning - his aerial game still needs work and maybe he needs one less step before hitting the gas - his break for the try line was fantastic but he shouldn't have been caught by Basteraud. However, generally he was excellent.

Both Best and Murray improved but they are both a long way from their world class best.

It was also good to see Cooney get a run, I've been very impressed with him this season. Think he's asking questions of Murray and it's great to have a quality option in the squad.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » March 11th, 2019, 1:07 pm

Shouldn't that scrum have been reset though? Sorry, don't mean to be pedantic because I know that's just one example and it was still an error. The ref played a big part as well, particularly with the number of times French players dived in over the ball.

Not saying we were perfect, but think the criticism is OTT. I'm very much of the opinion that it was a glass half full kind of performance, but there's no doubt that it has to be a stepping stone to a better performance next week.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby OTT » March 11th, 2019, 1:23 pm

Could there be a simple way to card people.

You give up 6 penalties (or some specific number)and you get a yellow maybe?

If there is an incident of foul play/cynical play that warrants a yellow in its own right then you get the yellow but the penalty is not added towards your card count.

It seems to random at the minute. Another ref could have had 2 French guys in the bin by the time they finally got one in the 66th minute and we would have probably put another couple of trys on them.

Would it not make it easier on the ref to sort of take that decision out of his hands, although we all might look at and scrutinise the actual penalties he gives more closely. We just don't seem to get the rewards for our discipline that we should imo
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » March 11th, 2019, 1:32 pm

Not a bad idea. Someone on the Virgin panel made the point that there weren't many blatantly cynical offences which maybe made it difficult for the ref to give a card earlier than he did. He was weak and I can think of a couple of obvious ones but I can see what the panel meant by that.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby olaf the fat » March 11th, 2019, 1:40 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Shouldn't that scrum have been reset though? Sorry, don't mean to be pedantic because I know that's just one example and it was still an error. The ref played a big part as well, particularly with the number of times French players dived in over the ball.

Not saying we were perfect, but think the criticism is OTT. I'm very much of the opinion that it was a glass half full kind of performance, but there's no doubt that it has to be a stepping stone to a better performance next week.


1st Half our dominance was difficult to reward thanks to France infringing at will, and only ever getting a stern telling off. To go from conceding a try on a penalty advantage, when on a card warning for repeated penalties, to have two players fly into and take out both lifters on the kick off - and still not get a card! They easily could have played half of the first half with 14 - which would have been a fair result of the pressure we inflicted on them.

Kicking high to the corner during advantage may be a relatively low % play, but this strategy really ties 2 of their guys back into that corner, less chance of one of them hitting the line for an intercept and keeping the D line spread thinner.

A lot of boxes ticked, intent & not being bullied the main 2! but keeping France scoreless for so long and dominating so much that the game was over by 50mins - that's something to take stock of.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby olaf the fat » March 11th, 2019, 1:53 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Not a bad idea. Someone on the Virgin panel made the point that there weren't many blatantly cynical offences which maybe made it difficult for the ref to give a card earlier than he did. He was weak and I can think of a couple of obvious ones but I can see what the panel meant by that.


They could start by getting the AR's to actually assist! but joking aside, the Ref knows how many times he puts his hand up, yesterday was easy- the first half was all one way traffic. Other more frantic games I understand, but when during a prolonged spell of pressure that nearly every play that does not result in a score results in a penalty the ref has to act.

The problem with allowing 5 penalties for example, that's teams allowed concede 15 points to save a possible 35 - before they get sanctioned.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby Edna Kenny » March 11th, 2019, 2:13 pm

OTT wrote:Could there be a simple way to card people.

You give up 6 penalties (or some specific number)and you get a yellow maybe?

If there is an incident of foul play/cynical play that warrants a yellow in its own right then you get the yellow but the penalty is not added towards your card count.

It seems to random at the minute. Another ref could have had 2 French guys in the bin by the time they finally got one in the 66th minute and we would have probably put another couple of trys on them.

Would it not make it easier on the ref to sort of take that decision out of his hands, although we all might look at and scrutinise the actual penalties he gives more closely. We just don't seem to get the rewards for our discipline that we should imo


Ref's seem to wipe the slate clean after half time too. Also, when Sexton scored his try, there was an advantage. I am sure that there would have been a card if it had been called back for the panalty.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » March 11th, 2019, 2:16 pm

Now that you mention it Olaf, I can remember Gardner but can't even think of who the other AR was.

As an aside, I think this whole idea of "onfield decision" and removing power from the TMO has been a disaster. I can see why they wanted to reduce the time spent reviewing things but it hasn't worked IMO.
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Re: Ireland v. France Sun 10 March 15.00

Postby Ruckedtobits » March 11th, 2019, 2:22 pm

When such a penalty count is occuring in the first half, you must think seriously about taking your points. If Refs aren't going to card teams for infringements under defensive pressure, just take your points and let the scorboard exert the pressure. From the 3rd minute until about the 30th minute we had approximately 6 penalties within 30m of their line but no change in the scoreboard.

If we had kick 4 penalties, all on Sextons preferred side, we would have been 31-0 up at half-time, now that's scoreboard pressure.

For sure, you can never be certain the penalties will keep coming but, as Joe pointed out, this is Test Match rugby and it doesn't come back for another chance.

Watch Wales against England and Scotland and even their first half against France. They defended their line like dogs and conceded penalties rather than points. Take every possible point off them, particularly penalties, but even drop-goals, and let the scoreboard change their tactics for you.
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