RWC 2019

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby neill_m » October 22nd, 2019, 9:44 am

Nigel Owens in charge of England v New Zealand and Jerome Garces in charge of Wales v South Africa. Peyper not considered after his ill-judged photo with the Welsh fans.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby FLIP » October 22nd, 2019, 10:01 am

neill_m wrote:Nigel Owens in charge of England v New Zealand and Jerome Garces in charge of Wales v South Africa. Peyper not considered after his ill-judged photo with the Welsh fans.


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Re: RWC 2019

Postby neill_m » October 22nd, 2019, 10:33 am

Do the ref appointments for the semi finals point to Mr Barnes getting the final barring England being in it etc? Or it being a straight scrap between Nigel (Wales not being in it of course) and Jerome?
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Oldschool » October 22nd, 2019, 2:46 pm

neill_m wrote:Do the ref appointments for the semi finals point to Mr Barnes getting the final barring England being in it etc? Or it being a straight scrap between Nigel (Wales not being in it of course) and Jerome?

NZ v SA - Aus Ref
NZ v Wal - Aus Ref
Eng v SA - SH Ref
Eng v Wal - NH ref.
If NZ are involved Barnes is out.
If Eng are involved Barnes is excluded.
Reckon Nigel or Garces for the final.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » October 22nd, 2019, 2:51 pm

Barnes and Garces did the two semi finals in 2015 and then Owens got the final. I'd say Barnes will get the final if England don't make it, it looks like all three are getting a send off.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby neill_m » October 22nd, 2019, 3:43 pm

Oldschool wrote:
neill_m wrote:Do the ref appointments for the semi finals point to Mr Barnes getting the final barring England being in it etc? Or it being a straight scrap between Nigel (Wales not being in it of course) and Jerome?

NZ v SA - Aus Ref
NZ v Wal - Aus Ref
Eng v SA - SH Ref
Eng v Wal - NH ref.
If NZ are involved Barnes is out.
If Eng are involved Barnes is excluded.
Reckon Nigel or Garces for the final.


They do have long memories in NZ, last man to referee a NZ defeat in RWC - Barnes in 2007! Is he allowed to visit there yet? :wink:
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Peg Leg » October 22nd, 2019, 3:49 pm

I'm shouting for Wayne Barnes for the rest of the tournament
"It was Mrs O'Leary's cow"
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Oldschool » October 22nd, 2019, 6:08 pm

Peg Leg wrote:I'm shouting for Wayne Barnes for the rest of the tournament

Me too
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Ruckedtobits » October 24th, 2019, 9:31 pm

Wales have won 12 Grand Slams (one less than England) and four since 2005.

Wales first played South Africa in 1907 and have played 35 games against them. South Africa have won 28 games, including all 15 in South Africa. Wales won their first victory, outside of Wales, in June 2018 in a one-off match in Washington DC in June 2018 by 22-20.

This was Rassie Erasmus' first Test Match as South African Head Coach. He awarded 13 first caps in that game. His team contained three players who played in the RWC q/f defeat of Japan last Saturday, winger Mapimpi, flanker Pieter Steph du Toit (playing 2nd row) and sub LHP Kitshoff. One week later, back home in South Africa and with 17 of the Squad who played last Saturday, Erasmus got his first international win by 42-39 against England. His team won the following week also against England to win the three-match series.

Wales have drawn one (1970) and won five home fixtures against South Africa, all since 1999. But no Grand Slam winning Welsh team has ever beaten South Africa, although five of them had the opportunity to do so.

Wales have not beaten New Zealand since 1953 and have lost the last 30 fixtures against that country.

Despite the very impressive reputation of Coach Warren Gatland, his track record against the big three of the Southern Hemisphere is very poor. Although Wales have won five of the past six fixtures against South Africa, that 2018 victory against South Africa was preceded by a losing streak of 13 against Australia. However, Wales have continued to seek games against those SH teams as Gatland has firmly stated that it is only by playing them that Wales will get the opportunity to beat them.

It is most likely that the traditional rugby history will play out against Wales this weekend and the South African pack will bulldoze their way to the final. Any other result will be the biggest shock of this World Cup.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Oldschool » October 24th, 2019, 9:48 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:Wales have won 12 Grand Slams (one less than England) and four since 2005.

Wales first played South Africa in 1907 and have played 35 games against them. South Africa have won 28 games, including all 15 in South Africa. Wales won their first victory, outside of Wales, in June 2018 in a one-off match in Washington DC in June 2018 by 22-20.

This was Rassie Erasmus' first Test Match as South African Head Coach. He awarded 13 first caps in that game. His team contained three players who played in the RWC q/f defeat of Japan last Saturday, winger Mapimpi, flanker Pieter Steph du Toit (playing 2nd row) and sub LHP Kitshoff. One week later, back home in South Africa and with 17 of the Squad who played last Saturday, Erasmus got his first international win by 42-39 against England. His team won the following week also against England to win the three-match series.

Wales have drawn one (1970) and won five home fixtures against South Africa, all since 1999. But no Grand Slam winning Welsh team has ever beaten South Africa, although five of them had the opportunity to do so.

Wales have not beaten New Zealand since 1953 and have lost the last 30 fixtures against that country.

Despite the very impressive reputation of Coach Warren Gatland, his track record against the big three of the Southern Hemisphere is very poor. Although Wales have won five of the past six fixtures against South Africa, that 2018 victory against South Africa was preceded by a losing streak of 13 against Australia. However, Wales have continued to seek games against those SH teams as Gatland has firmly stated that it is only by playing them that Wales will get the opportunity to beat them.

It is most likely that the traditional rugby history will play out against Wales this weekend and the South African pack will bulldoze their way to the final. Any other result will be the biggest shock of this World Cup.

As Gatland, rather smugly put it himself.
"Nobody wants to be involved in an upset"
Be careful what you wish for Gattie.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby olaf the fat » October 25th, 2019, 9:08 am

Oldschool wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:I'm shouting for Wayne Barnes for the rest of the tournament

Me too


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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Oldschool » October 25th, 2019, 10:03 am

olaf the fat wrote:
Oldschool wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:I'm shouting for Wayne Barnes for the rest of the tournament

Me too


Dont forget the #

I didn't.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Twist » October 25th, 2019, 7:10 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:Wales have won 12 Grand Slams (one less than England) and four since 2005.

Wales first played South Africa in 1907 and have played 35 games against them. South Africa have won 28 games, including all 15 in South Africa. Wales won their first victory, outside of Wales, in June 2018 in a one-off match in Washington DC in June 2018 by 22-20.

This was Rassie Erasmus' first Test Match as South African Head Coach. He awarded 13 first caps in that game. His team contained three players who played in the RWC q/f defeat of Japan last Saturday, winger Mapimpi, flanker Pieter Steph du Toit (playing 2nd row) and sub LHP Kitshoff. One week later, back home in South Africa and with 17 of the Squad who played last Saturday, Erasmus got his first international win by 42-39 against England. His team won the following week also against England to win the three-match series.

Wales have drawn one (1970) and won five home fixtures against South Africa, all since 1999. But no Grand Slam winning Welsh team has ever beaten South Africa, although five of them had the opportunity to do so.

Wales have not beaten New Zealand since 1953 and have lost the last 30 fixtures against that country.

Despite the very impressive reputation of Coach Warren Gatland, his track record against the big three of the Southern Hemisphere is very poor. Although Wales have won five of the past six fixtures against South Africa, that 2018 victory against South Africa was preceded by a losing streak of 13 against Australia. However, Wales have continued to seek games against those SH teams as Gatland has firmly stated that it is only by playing them that Wales will get the opportunity to beat them.

It is most likely that the traditional rugby history will play out against Wales this weekend and the South African pack will bulldoze their way to the final. Any other result will be the biggest shock of this World Cup.


Wales’ record against NZ is 3-0-31, strikingly similar to our 2-1-28.

Im surprised they’ve never won in SA though. It really wrankles that we didnt close out that series in 2016
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Ruckedtobits » October 25th, 2019, 8:37 pm

There has been a huge outcry in various places in the media (social, print and Radio) over the past week about the Irish rugby performance, notably against New Zealand last Saturday, but also about our performances against other major Rugby Nations, particularly those of the Southern Hemisphere who have won all but one of the nine Rugby World Cup Tournaments to date. Let's try and put a little perspective into our relative performances compared to England Scotland and Wales.

Below is set out a summary of the results of all four Nations against the three Southern Hemisphere giants, NZ, SA & Australia since September 1995, the date from which World Rugby went professional. Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales have played against those three Southern Hemisphere teams since the early 1900's. However the fixtures in the years up to the 1970's (and modern air travel) were so few and far between that they show no pattern as games were sometimes twenty years apart. Since roughly 1995, games between all seven nations have been far more regular, although not evenly distributed. Nevertheless, the figures give a good overall picture of the relative performances between the countries - although it does not make for easy reading for the four NH nations.


England v. NZ = 15.9%; v. S Africa = 39.7%; v. Aus = 59.7%; Overall:= 40.2%

Ireland v. NZ =11.1%; v. S Africa = 40.0%; v. Aus = 39.5%: Overall = 29.8%

Scotland v. NZ = 0.0%; v. S Africa = 5.9%: v. Aus = 23.5%; Overall = 10.9%

Wales v. NZ = 0.0%; v. S Africa = 23.1%; v. Aus =17.3%; Overall = 15.2%


Totals v NZ = 7.97%; v. S Africa = 22.73%; v. Aus = 37.63%

Translating this percentages into actual games:

New Zealand have lost five games & drawn one out of 69 games they have played against the four Nations since June 1995.

S Africa have lost 17 games and drawn one out of 77 games they have played against the same four countries since September 1995.

Australia, the weakest of the big three, have lost 33 and drawn three out of the 93 games they have played against the four countries since June 1995.

Although the performance of the the four NH teams is improving, history is against them when it comes to games head to head against the SH big three.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Oldschool » October 26th, 2019, 8:44 am

Prediction.
England.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Leinsterimp » October 26th, 2019, 10:37 am

Incredible performance from England so far, Underhill and Curry are immense
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby tingman » October 26th, 2019, 11:09 am

A defensive masterclass from Eng. AB’s ended up kicking
as much ball away as we usually do!!
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby FLIP » October 26th, 2019, 11:10 am

So you're telling me that when NZ are reffed fairly and equitably they aren't actually that good?
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Twist » October 26th, 2019, 11:12 am

FLIP wrote:So you're telling me that when NZ are reffed fairly and equitably they aren't actually that good?


Been saying this for ages!


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Re: RWC 2019

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » October 26th, 2019, 11:22 am

Leinsterimp wrote:Incredible performance from England so far, Underhill and Curry are immense


Absolutely. Thought that the Vunipolas and Tuilagi were key to England winning games like this but all three were actually reasonably quiet. Sinckler, Lawes, Itoje, Ford, Farrell, Daly, and Watson were all incredible. England were so well organised and strong in every facet of play. NZ's only score came from a dodgy lineout by England, really impressive stuff.

That's not far from how NZ have been playing for a couple of years IMO. A lack of power and they ran out of ideas. They did have chances but blew them with really hesitant or stupid play. England were much better than them but if they'd kept composed and not thrown stupid offloads, ran into trouble, ran into touch, and gave away brain dead penalties then they could have won. A lot of the errors were forced but an awful lot of them weren't.

I've never been convinced by Mo'unga at ten at this level, good on the front foot and good as a sub but not in the really tough games IMO. I think it would have made more sense to move Barrett to ten and put his brother to 15. I don't think we're capable of that kind of performance that England just put in but it's so frustrating that we didn't put NZ under any pressure at all last week.

The pace that England put on the game in the first half is the kind of level we have to get to, you need to bring the game to the opposition, we can't afford to sit back in future.
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