RWC 2019

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby leinsterforever » October 27th, 2019, 8:13 pm

Logorrhea wrote:So South Africa lose to New Zealand then beat Japan and Wales and are in a final? World rugby really needs to do something to make this competition better.


What do you want them to do? Japan beat out Ireland and Scotland to top their pool on merit, and Wales are Grand Slam champions and have been in the top 4 of the rankings for a while now, so they're worthy semi-finalists.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby ronk » October 27th, 2019, 9:23 pm

leinsterforever wrote:
Logorrhea wrote:So South Africa lose to New Zealand then beat Japan and Wales and are in a final? World rugby really needs to do something to make this competition better.


What do you want them to do? Japan beat out Ireland and Scotland to top their pool on merit, and Wales are Grand Slam champions and have been in the top 4 of the rankings for a while now, so they're worthy semi-finalists.


England's route is OZ, NZ and SA in the knockouts. Doesn't seem the same to me.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Logorrhea » October 28th, 2019, 12:13 am

leinsterforever wrote:What do you want them to do?

You should be "world champion" when you come second in the 2 team group, beat Japan, Beat Wales then hypothetically beat England. Winning the 6 nations is harder than that.

Fewer meaningless matches. Make the group games mean more. Make winning the group be of benefit to those that win the group.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Laighin Break » October 28th, 2019, 10:40 am

Logorrhea wrote:
leinsterforever wrote:What do you want them to do?

You should be "world champion" when you come second in the 2 team group, beat Japan, Beat Wales then hypothetically beat England. Winning the 6 nations is harder than that.

Fewer meaningless matches. Make the group games mean more. Make winning the group be of benefit to those that win the group.


It is of benefit, that's why they play the 2nd place team from another group...
Are you calling for a 8/10 team tournament?
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Oldschool » October 28th, 2019, 1:24 pm

France should have beaten Wales in their QF.
France might well have beaten SA in the SF.
However it's likely that SA will give England a tougher test in the final than France would.
It's just funny the way the draw worked out.
Scotland were stitched up in the pool games.
NZ would have got an extra rest day before the final.
That now works in England's favour.
Little margins it's said.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Ruckedtobits » October 30th, 2019, 7:10 am

Just as NZ looked the odds-on certain World Champions for the week after their demolition of Ireland in the quarter-final, it's easy to assume that England will now stroll along that path after their clincal dissection of New Zealand.

However, team sports, and particularly Rugby Union, don't always play out in a predictable fashion and the emotional energy consumed by England (and conserved by S Africa) in their respective semi-final victories may yet determine the outcome of next Saturday's game.

It's worth recalling that England and S Africa played four games against each other in 2018, a 3-match Test Series in June in South Africa and won 2-1 by the home team and a November game in Twickenham won 12-11 by Jones' boys.

The first Test in that summer Series was the debut of Kolesi as captain and the home debut of Erasmus as Head Coach, one week after South Africa had tasted defeat by Wales - for the first time ever outside Cardiff.

At the start of that Series, England had lost four games in a row and South African rugby was very uncertain whether they were on the right path to "transformation ". Thus, in less than 18 months, both Coaches have reconstructed and re-directed their Squads to the top of World Rugby. Two interesting journeys worthy of close study!

S Africa won that first game in the Series in front of a packed Ellis Park crowd by 42-39. 11 of England's team next Saturday started that day and a couple more were on the bench. England led mid-way through the first-half by 3-24, but were behind by 29-27 at half-time. England won the final (November) game by a single point, with criticism ringing in the ears of Owen Farrell for his last-minute high tackle which prevented a winning South African try.

England and South Africa have charted very different paths since November 2018. However, it would be very foolhardy for anybody to assume:

a) that England can replicate their RWC Q/F form at will; or,
b) that S Africa cannot play a very different style that they showed in theIr RWC Q / F.

Jones and Erasmus are two clever Coaches. Both teams respect, but don't fear, their opponents. For all the skill they demonstrated against NZ, the key component in this England team's biggest victories has been "winning the collisions". If there is one fundamental attribute that S African rugby has demonstrated throughout its history, it has been the ability to "win the collisions".

The RWC Final could be a fascinating contest and not just a kick-fest. Neither of these coaches will want to lose, because they didn't take the opportunity to try to win. Neither Coach is foolish enough to settle for 'playing not to lose' at this stage.

Both will remember the old axiom Opportunity comes to pass, not to pause.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby cormac » October 30th, 2019, 10:11 am

No team that has beaten Ireland in the knock-out stages of the RWC has won their next match since Australia in 1991. And since France finished 3rd in 1995 no other team that has beaten us in the knock-out stages has won the 3rd place play-off either.

1987 - Ireland lose heavily to Australia in qf, they lose semi-final to France and 3rd place play-off to Wales
1991 - we almost beat Australia and that shocks them into beating NZ and England to lift the trophy
1995 - we capitulate in the second half to France who lose controversially to SA in the semi before beating England to claim third
1999 - we lose to Argentina in a qf play-off and they're subsequently too knackered to beat France in the qf
2003 - we get hammered out the gate by France in the qf who then lose to England and then NZ
2007 - tournament never happened
2011 - we lose to Wales who contrive to lose to France and then Australia
2015 - we lose to Argentina who are beaten by Australia and then South Africa
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Twist » October 30th, 2019, 11:38 am

cormac wrote:No team that has beaten Ireland in the knock-out stages of the RWC has won their next match since Australia in 1991. And since France finished 3rd in 1995 no other team that has beaten us in the knock-out stages has won the 3rd place play-off either.

1987 - Ireland lose heavily to Australia in qf, they lose semi-final to France and 3rd place play-off to Wales
1991 - we almost beat Australia and that shocks them into beating NZ and England to lift the trophy
1995 - we capitulate in the second half to France who lose controversially to SA in the semi before beating England to claim third
1999 - we lose to Argentina in a qf play-off and they're subsequently too knackered to beat France in the qf
2003 - we get hammered out the gate by France in the qf who then lose to England and then NZ
2007 - tournament never happened
2011 - we lose to Wales who contrive to lose to France and then Australia
2015 - we lose to Argentina who are beaten by Australia and then South Africa


Ah, what might have been in 2007 if only the WC hadn't been cancelled.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Oldschool » October 30th, 2019, 11:39 am

cormac wrote:No team that has beaten Ireland in the knock-out stages of the RWC has won their next match since Australia in 1991. And since France finished 3rd in 1995 no other team that has beaten us in the knock-out stages has won the 3rd place play-off either.

1987 - Ireland lose heavily to Australia in qf, they lose semi-final to France and 3rd place play-off to Wales
1991 - we almost beat Australia and that shocks them into beating NZ and England to lift the trophy
1995 - we capitulate in the second half to France who lose controversially to SA in the semi before beating England to claim third
1999 - we lose to Argentina in a qf play-off and they're subsequently too knackered to beat France in the qf
2003 - we get hammered out the gate by France in the qf who then lose to England and then NZ
2007 - tournament never happened
2011 - we lose to Wales who contrive to lose to France and then Australia
2015 - we lose to Argentina who are beaten by Australia and then South Africa

Unfortunately those statistics says more about Ireland than they do about the opposition.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Twist » October 30th, 2019, 11:45 am

Teams are our for the 3rd Place Playoff. I seem to be the only person in the world who enjoys these matches.

Owen Lane is straight off the plane and onto the wing

New Zealand:
Beauden Barrett
Ben Smith
Ryan Crotty
Sonny Bill Williams
Rieko Ioane
Richie Mo’unga
Aaron Smith

Joe Moody
Dan Coles
Nepo Laulala
Brodie Retallick
Scott Barrett
Shannon Frizell
Sam Cane
Kieran Read (capt).

"Finishers"; Liam Coltman, Atu Moli, Angus Ta’avao, Patrick Tuipulotu, Matt Todd, Brad Weber, Anton Lienert-Brown, Jordie Barrett.

Way-als
Hallam Amos
Owen Lane
Jonathan Davies
Owen Watkin
Josh Adams
Rhys Patchell
Tomos Williams

Nicky Smith
Ken Owens
Dillon Lewis
Adam Beard
Alun Wyn Jones (capt)
Justin Tipuric
James Davies
Ross Moriarty

Fir ionaid; Elliot Dee, Rhys Carre, Wyn Jones, Jake Ball, Aaron Shingler, Gareth Davies, Dan Biggar, Hadleigh Parkes
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby johng » October 30th, 2019, 11:50 am

Half way between Dan Cole and Dane Coles. That would be a strange beast
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby thepunter » October 30th, 2019, 5:17 pm

thepunter wrote:Joking aside

I put the stats up for Garces in May here when Garces got the Final for the Heineken final and sarries, after reffing the semi final v munster, where he was roundly condemned from media and fans alike. Over 90% for Sarries and England, in all games, since going pro.

England rugby do not care how obvious it is, they are hell bent on 'success'. And no one calls them on it. The only person 've ever seen question it in the media is Matt Williams after Joubert (NZ's hitman before PoB left the reffing panel) and the world cup final v france.

Here's Garces stats.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25429&start=340#p744116

It's all absolutely rotten to the core. Australia are going to have to pull out a miracle to win.



So Jerome Garces in 2019 gets:

Saracens v Leinster in the Heineken final
Saracens v Munster in the heineken Semi final
England v Australia in the World Cup semi final
England v South Africa in the World cup final

UNPRECEDENTED INVOLVEMENT FOR ANY REFEREE IN ANY SPORT IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD I'LL WAGER.

At the tail end of 2018 he somehow gets in Poite's ear in the deciding Lions test and gets him to change the rules to benefit the product on tour.

England control the reffing panel since POB of NZ left.
There is zero transparency around reffing appointments. In any competition.
These are Garces stats for England in the 6 nations and Saracens games, ALL of them. No games left out. What an unreal record, including four away wins, 2 in Wales, 2 in ireland viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25429&start=340#p744116

And world rugby are not totally corrupt filth, and the game is not totally rigged.

Carry on, nothing to see here.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby wixfjord » October 30th, 2019, 6:05 pm

Image
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby CiaranIrl » October 30th, 2019, 6:34 pm

thepunter wrote:
thepunter wrote:Joking aside

I put the stats up for Garces in May here when Garces got the Final for the Heineken final and sarries, after reffing the semi final v munster, where he was roundly condemned from media and fans alike. Over 90% for Sarries and England, in all games, since going pro.

England rugby do not care how obvious it is, they are hell bent on 'success'. And no one calls them on it. The only person 've ever seen question it in the media is Matt Williams after Joubert (NZ's hitman before PoB left the reffing panel) and the world cup final v france.

Here's Garces stats.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25429&start=340#p744116

It's all absolutely rotten to the core. Australia are going to have to pull out a miracle to win.



So Jerome Garces in 2019 gets:

Saracens v Leinster in the Heineken final
Saracens v Munster in the heineken Semi final
England v Australia in the World Cup semi final
England v South Africa in the World cup final

UNPRECEDENTED INVOLVEMENT FOR ANY REFEREE IN ANY SPORT IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD I'LL WAGER.

At the tail end of 2018 he somehow gets in Poite's ear in the deciding Lions test and gets him to change the rules to benefit the product on tour.

England control the reffing panel since POB of NZ left.
There is zero transparency around reffing appointments. In any competition.
These are Garces stats for England in the 6 nations and Saracens games, ALL of them. No games left out. What an unreal record, including four away wins, 2 in Wales, 2 in ireland viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25429&start=340#p744116

And world rugby are not totally corrupt filth, and the game is not totally rigged.

Carry on, nothing to see here.


What's your opinion on Gemma O'Doherty, out of curiousity?
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby thepunter » October 30th, 2019, 6:50 pm

Clowns.

But sure look, you can lead a donkey to water it doesn't mean he'll drink.

Like I said, nothing to see here, all is well - one ref getting England's flagship sides in two knock out games in the WC and the HC.

His observable record with England/Saracens in the three biggest global rugby competitions they are involved in, is not odd in anyway either......stats linked and referenced above.

Simple minds need time lads, i get it. Yokels like yee are the lads who poked fun at the barest sniff of thinking throughout our history - i can picture you both now in the 1800s, chewing on a spud like Cloetus at the fair, pointing and guffawing at the lads trying to grow something else in their back gardens.

The world needs people like you clowns, who else could be milked but your type?
Last edited by thepunter on October 30th, 2019, 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby thepunter » October 30th, 2019, 7:00 pm

Hey Beavis and butthead. Find me one instance where one ref has had more than one knock out game for the same team in any rugby competition since professionalism started.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby CiaranIrl » October 30th, 2019, 7:22 pm

thepunter wrote:Clowns.

But sure look, you can lead a donkey to water it doesn't mean he'll drink.

Like I said, nothing to see here, all is well - one ref getting England's flagship sides in two knock out games in the WC and the HC.

His observable record with England/Saracens in the three biggest global rugby competitions they are involved in, is not odd in anyway either......stats linked and referenced above.

Simple minds need time lads, i get it. Yokels like yee are the lads who poked fun at the barest sniff of thinking throughout our history - i can picture you both now in the 1800s, chewing on a spud like Cloetus at the fair, pointing and guffawing at the lads trying to grow something else in their back gardens.

The world needs people like you clowns, who else could be milked but your type?


Here's a good article for you to read: https://www.wired.com/story/wired-guide ... -theories/

Just because you see a pattern doesn't mean you have any evidence.

It could be, you know, England and Saracens are quite good at rugby right now. That is, you know, backed up by all observable evidence by people who like to watch rugby.

Incidentally, the whole, "if you don't agree with me, you must be a blind idiot" is as old and stupid an argument as it comes.
Last edited by CiaranIrl on October 30th, 2019, 7:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby cormac » October 30th, 2019, 7:38 pm

thepunter wrote:Hey Beavis and butthead. Find me one instance where one ref has had more than one knock out game for the same team in any rugby competition since professionalism started.


Nigel Owens reffed our quarter-final, semi-final and final in 2009. He also reffed Munster's qf, sf and final in 2008.

Never go full Jim Corr.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby johng » October 30th, 2019, 8:30 pm

Never go! Full Jim Corr.

Never go full. Jim Corr

Never go full Jim. Corr

NEVER! Go full Jim Corr

Never. Go full. Jim Corr
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby wixfjord » October 30th, 2019, 9:02 pm

cormac wrote:
thepunter wrote:Hey Beavis and butthead. Find me one instance where one ref has had more than one knock out game for the same team in any rugby competition since professionalism started.


In the 2017/18 Euro knockouts Barnes reffed Racing twice.

In 2016/17 Owens reffed our game against Wasps and Clermont. He reffed Clermont in the final too.

In 2015/16 Owens reffed Racing twice and Poite reffed Wasps twice.

UNPRECEDENTED!
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