RWC2019 31-man squad

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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby CiaranIrl » May 30th, 2019, 6:12 pm

wixfjord wrote:I'd like to see Beirne at 6 too, but I don't think he's the answer to overcoming a massive pack like SA or England either. For me Ruddock would be perfect for that. Beirne is great when he's allowed to roam around and carry a bit wider, but like POM you need two other guys who will pick up some of the slack if he does that imo.

I also don't think Beirne is big or powerful enough to start at second row ahead of Dev, Ryan or Hendo btw and I think Joe might agree (which is why I have a sneaking suspicion that Beirne might not even make the plane...).


I'm not sure I agree. He nearly always has double digit tackle figures, strong carries, excellent in the lineout and is bigger, heavier and stronger than O'Mahony. He basically seems to do everything O'Mahony does, but better. He just doesn't have an angry face.

I do agree that he doesn't have the power to play lock at international level, but I think he could well be our best blindside option.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby hugonaut » May 30th, 2019, 7:48 pm

CiaranIrl wrote:
wixfjord wrote:I'd like to see Beirne at 6 too, but I don't think he's the answer to overcoming a massive pack like SA or England either. For me Ruddock would be perfect for that. Beirne is great when he's allowed to roam around and carry a bit wider, but like POM you need two other guys who will pick up some of the slack if he does that imo.

I also don't think Beirne is big or powerful enough to start at second row ahead of Dev, Ryan or Hendo btw and I think Joe might agree (which is why I have a sneaking suspicion that Beirne might not even make the plane...).


I'm not sure I agree. He nearly always has double digit tackle figures, strong carries, excellent in the lineout and is bigger, heavier and stronger than O'Mahony. He basically seems to do everything O'Mahony does, but better. He just doesn't have an angry face.

I do agree that he doesn't have the power to play lock at international level, but I think he could well be our best blindside option.


Beirne stats: https://munsterrugby.ie/player?PlayGuid=TB830937
O'Mahony stats: https://munsterrugby.ie/player?PlayGuid=PO196534
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby Lar » May 31st, 2019, 11:31 am

But did he catch a ball ahead of Beauden Barrett last November???
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby Ruckedtobits » May 31st, 2019, 10:44 pm

Lar wrote:But did he catch a ball ahead of Beauden Barrett last November???


He "could have done" if he'd been there.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby ronk » June 1st, 2019, 8:44 pm

Oldschool wrote:
wixfjord wrote:I'd like to see Beirne at 6 too, but I don't think he's the answer to overcoming a massive pack like SA or England either. For me Ruddock would be perfect for that. Beirne is great when he's allowed to roam around and carry a bit wider, but like POM you need two other guys who will pick up some of the slack if he does that imo.

I also don't think Beirne is big or powerful enough to start at second row ahead of Dev, Ryan or Hendo btw and I think Joe might agree (which is why I have a sneaking suspicion that Beirne might not even make the plane...).

Good analysis.


Beirne doesn't need to be. He can play 4th choice lock and cover 6. If it comes down to Beirne/Roux starting a quarter final against England we have enough problems anyway.

It's always possible that Ryan, Toner and Hendo all start.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » June 21st, 2019, 4:29 pm

Mike Catt joining us as attack coach after the World Cup. Big fan of him as a player/person but can't say I'm too excited about his appointment.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby dropkick » June 21st, 2019, 4:38 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:Mike Catt joining us as attack coach after the World Cup. Big fan of him as a player/person but can't say I'm too excited about his appointment.



I'm happy enough with it. Italy play some good attacking rugby.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby John23 » June 21st, 2019, 10:42 pm

Is it true that his wife's name is Ali Catt?
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby Oldschool » June 25th, 2019, 9:15 am

Twist wrote:
CiaranIrl wrote:I'd really love to see Beirne tried at 6 in the warm ups. It seems like the obvious answer to the England & South Africa power game problem.


I agree, can’t understand why more people aren’t saying this. He’s a old lineout jumper and great on the ground, carries well, avoids contact when it’s an option and can even pass :O

I also think POM can be an effective 7, should we need another one


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You're compromising.
POM isn't powerful enough to play 6 any more.
If we need him to play 7 in a major game then we're fooked.
Did you ever wonder how POM was in a position to make that match winning intercept against NZ in the AI.
It's chicken and egg.
If he'd been doing what a 6 normally does then maybe the interception wouldn't have been required.
We'll never know but the question should still be asked.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby Oldschool » June 25th, 2019, 9:18 am

The extended squad are in pre season.
Question.
What is the physical state of the players.
If the RWC was to kick off tomorrow, which players would be unavailable for the 31
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby leinsterforever » July 7th, 2019, 2:21 am

If I had to have a stab at picking the final 31, I'd say it might be:

LH: Healy, McGrath
HK: Best, Scannell, Herring
TH: Furlong, Porter, Ryan
SR: Ryan, Toner, Henderson, Kleyn
BS: O'Mahony
OS: van der Flier, Murphy
No. 8: Stander, Conan
SH: Murray, Marmion, McGrath
FH: Sexton, Carbery, Carty
C: Aki, Ringrose, Henshaw
W: Stockdale, Earls, Conway
FB: Kearney, Larmour

Picks based on Schmidt seemingly not rating Cronin very highly as a scrummager and on him being a bit cool on Beirne and Cooney.

First reserve in each position:

1. Kilcoyne
2. Cronin
3. Bealham
LH lock: Beirne/Dillane
TH lock: Roux
6. Ruddock
7. O'Donnell/Reidy
8. O'Donoghue
9. Cooney
10. Byrne
11. D. Kearney
12. Scannell
13. Farrell
14. A. Byrne
15. Addison

I'd say Ruddock would get the call if any backrower (and not just a blindside) went down. He covers 7, and Murphy could switch to covering 8 if necessary. Similarly, due to his versatility, Addison could get the call even if it wasn't a fullback he was directly replacing.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby Experimental » July 13th, 2019, 12:50 am

I would go with:

LH: Healy, Kilcoyne
HK: Best, Scannell, Cronin
TH: Furlong, Porter, Ryan
SR: Ryan, Toner, Henderson
BS: O'Mahony, Beirne
OS: van der Flier, Murphy
No. 8: Stander, Conan
SH: Murray, Marmion, Cooney
FH: Sexton, Carbery
C: Aki, Ringrose, Henshaw, Farrell
W: Stockdale, Earls, Conway
FB: Kearney, Larmour
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby leinsterforever » July 24th, 2019, 11:02 pm

Addison being able to cover 13 while nominally being a full back could make him quite an attractive proposition if they take only three centres because they want to squeeze in 6 halves.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby Dave Cahill » July 25th, 2019, 8:18 am

I'm still not convinced that he'll bring 3 SHs and only 2 OHs - he went the opposite way last world cup and this time the players are even more suited to that. The big question if he does so is whether he'll bring Carty or the bad doggie as third outhalf.

The return to fitness of Addison has no doubt caused some restless nights for Messrs Farrell, Conway and Larmour
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » July 25th, 2019, 1:04 pm

I wonder if Johnny's injury might mean that he plays more in the pool games than had previously been planned? Could happen with Murray too depending on what his form is like. He definitely improved towards the end of the season so fingers crossed the break and pre season will have him raring to go, but if he's sluggish in the warm up games then I'm sure they'll try and play him into form.

One of my big hopes over the next few months is that we're not afraid to drop established players if they're not at their best. I get the calls for Conan to start but can get behind CJ getting a chance to prove himself, but if he doesn't then we have to be ruthless. There are a few other examples like that. In fairness, Joe has made loads of big calls in the past so I'm hopeful in most cases.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby dropkick » July 25th, 2019, 2:15 pm

Experimental wrote:I would go with:

LH: Healy, Kilcoyne
HK: Best, Scannell, Cronin
TH: Furlong, Porter, Ryan
SR: Ryan, Toner, Henderson
BS: O'Mahony, Beirne
OS: van der Flier, Murphy
No. 8: Stander, Conan
SH: Murray, Marmion, Cooney
FH: Sexton, Carbery
C: Aki, Ringrose, Henshaw, Farrell
W: Stockdale, Earls, Conway
FB: Kearney, Larmour



I think it will be something like that. Jack McGrath has a good chance if he can recover his form. Bealham could get in ahead of Porter.


4 centers are a lot but Henshaw can cover fullback against the smaller nations at least and Ringrose can probably play on the wing if needed, against the smaller nations also.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby CiaranIrl » July 25th, 2019, 4:38 pm

I'd go with:

LH: Healy, Kilcoyne
HK: Best, Scannell, Cronin
TH: Furlong, Porter, Ryan
SR: Ryan, Toner, Henderson, Beirne
BS: O'Mahony
OS: Van der Flier, Murphy
No. 8: Stander, Conan
SH: Murray, Marmion, McGrath
FH: Sexton, Carbery, Ross Byrne
C: Aki, Ringrose, Henshaw,
W: Stockdale, Earls, Addison
FB: Kearney, Larmour

I think bringing 9 outside backs is crazy. We'll just have someone there who basically never plays. For me, it's two of Farrell, Conway, Larmour and Adisson, not three.

You need to build the squad from an expected 23 up. Every 23 needs 4 props, 2 hookers, 3 SRs, 4 BRs, 2 SHs, 2 OHs, 2 Centers, and 4 Outside Backs. Your remaining 8 players need to be 1 from each category to cover an injury in the 48 hours before a game.

I am very aware that we tend to pick 9 outside backs in our world cups quads, but I think it's pointless. We didn't need both of Zebo and Darren Cave last time, we didn't need both of Murphy and McFadden in 2011, and we didn't need you know who from rugby league in 2007.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby leinsterforever » July 25th, 2019, 5:25 pm

CiaranIrl wrote:I'd go with:

LH: Healy, Kilcoyne
HK: Best, Scannell, Cronin
TH: Furlong, Porter, Ryan
SR: Ryan, Toner, Henderson, Beirne
BS: O'Mahony
OS: Van der Flier, Murphy
No. 8: Stander, Conan
SH: Murray, Marmion, McGrath
FH: Sexton, Carbery, Ross Byrne
C: Aki, Ringrose, Henshaw,
W: Stockdale, Earls, Addison
FB: Kearney, Larmour

I think bringing 9 outside backs is crazy. We'll just have someone there who basically never plays. For me, it's two of Farrell, Conway, Larmour and Adisson, not three.

You need to build the squad from an expected 23 up. Every 23 needs 4 props, 2 hookers, 3 SRs, 4 BRs, 2 SHs, 2 OHs, 2 Centers, and 4 Outside Backs. Your remaining 8 players need to be 1 from each category to cover an injury in the 48 hours before a game.

I am very aware that we tend to pick 9 outside backs in our world cups quads, but I think it's pointless. We didn't need both of Zebo and Darren Cave last time, we didn't need both of Murphy and McFadden in 2011, and we didn't need you know who from rugby league in 2007.


The only exception I'd make to that is Scannell going as second choice 12 and third choice 10 if one of Henshaw and Aki gets injured before the squad leaves. The fact that he'd cover a position outside 11-15 would mean that it makes sense. I think that's the context in which squads have 9 centres and back three players. One of them is covering one of the halfback positions.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby CiaranIrl » July 25th, 2019, 5:33 pm

leinsterforever wrote:
CiaranIrl wrote:I'd go with:

LH: Healy, Kilcoyne
HK: Best, Scannell, Cronin
TH: Furlong, Porter, Ryan
SR: Ryan, Toner, Henderson, Beirne
BS: O'Mahony
OS: Van der Flier, Murphy
No. 8: Stander, Conan
SH: Murray, Marmion, McGrath
FH: Sexton, Carbery, Ross Byrne
C: Aki, Ringrose, Henshaw,
W: Stockdale, Earls, Addison
FB: Kearney, Larmour

I think bringing 9 outside backs is crazy. We'll just have someone there who basically never plays. For me, it's two of Farrell, Conway, Larmour and Adisson, not three.

You need to build the squad from an expected 23 up. Every 23 needs 4 props, 2 hookers, 3 SRs, 4 BRs, 2 SHs, 2 OHs, 2 Centers, and 4 Outside Backs. Your remaining 8 players need to be 1 from each category to cover an injury in the 48 hours before a game.

I am very aware that we tend to pick 9 outside backs in our world cups quads, but I think it's pointless. We didn't need both of Zebo and Darren Cave last time, we didn't need both of Murphy and McFadden in 2011, and we didn't need you know who from rugby league in 2007.


The only exception I'd make to that is Scannell going as second choice 12 and third choice 10 if one of Henshaw and Aki gets injured before the squad leaves. The fact that he'd cover a position outside 11-15 would mean that it makes sense. I think that's the context in which squads have 9 centres and back three players. One of them is covering one of the halfback positions.


Yeah, you're absolutely right. Like Paddy Wallace in 2011 backing up Rog and Sexton, but even so, Scannell isn't good enough to play 10 anymore, and Schmidt doesn't seem to rate him as a center, so I wouldn't think he has much of a chance.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby Ruckedtobits » July 31st, 2019, 8:26 am

A well thought-out piece in Demented Mole selecting the RWC Squad. Worth a read @:

http://dementedmole.com/2019/07/29/sele ... rwc-squad/
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