RWC2019 31-man squad

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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby johng » July 31st, 2019, 10:55 am

Excellent piece. I would take Beirne ahead of one of Conway or Larmour personally. Otherwise it's bang on. (for me) OTOH Beirne and Ruddock is probably overkill too. But forwards take more punishment.

However both Joe and Hugo know a lot more about it than me.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby Morf » July 31st, 2019, 11:13 am

Agree with one of the commenters - think Schmidt will err towards Murphy over Ruddock/less likely Conan.
Ruddock has a lot of praise directed his way but seems to be a player omitted too regularly when another option is presented.

As well know about Schmidt's fondness for a very big center I think fit he'll get the call over Addison with Larmour possibly an option to cover 13 in a lesser game.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby hugonaut » July 31st, 2019, 1:06 pm

johng wrote:Excellent piece. I would take Beirne ahead of one of Conway or Larmour personally. Otherwise it's bang on. (for me) OTOH Beirne and Ruddock is probably overkill too. But forwards take more punishment.

However both Joe and Hugo know a lot more about it than me.


One of the other Moles actually!
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby dropkick » August 1st, 2019, 3:03 pm

Plenty of close calls for this squad and it will be a horse's for courses selection imo. Schmidt will go with power players so Kleyn over Beirne, Farrell will be included I'd say. Beirne might be included as a backrow mostly.


I think there'll be 4 back 3 players. Stockdale, earls, Kearney and Conway/Larmour. Larmour is the best bench option but Conway is more experienced so close call there.


I think Henshaw might be used a bit at fullback for some games. It didn't work out against England but they've plenty of time to prepare now and he is a quality fullback. In fact that could be one of Schmidt's wildcards. It will also allow him to pick the 4 centers he likes.


He'll probably go with scannell over herring due to Scannell being a bit more physical but that could be a close call.


Kilcoyne v McGrath is another close call. McGrath is more powerful and better scrummager but he's been well off form since the world cup. He has time to sort his form out and will be desparate not to miss the world cup. Porter and Bealham should also be a close call. Porter has more potential but Bealham is currently the better player imo.


Great shame about leavy missing and I hoped SOB would have gotten some for back but it's not to be. VDF should be used sparingly as he is injury prone. I would only play him in the important games. He hit the ground running when coming back from his last injury so he looks like one of those players who don't need many games to find peak form.


POM and Stander will be fine. Early last season I predicted they'd lose form towards the end of the season because Van Graan was needlessly playing them against weak sides. There's only so much mileage a body can take in a season. The backrow in general is weaker than expected.


9 & 10 will be Sexton, Carbery, Murray, Marmion and Cooney. Anything other that those 5 will be a surprise imo. Carty and Byrne suffer from not being able to play in another position.


Toner, Henderson, Ryan and Kleyn are good quality locks. Kleyn can play against the minnows. I'd like to see Henderson used as a sub. Not because he isn't good enough but because of his impact off the bench plus he is injury prone.


There's a lot of doom and gloom around the squad which is fantastic!!! It takes all the pressure off the players if expectations are very low. They'll have their 2 hardest games up first, then time to prepare for the quarter final. I think both SA and NZ will be going all out to beat each other because they won't want to face Ireland.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby ronk » August 1st, 2019, 11:43 pm

I don't see the fuss over Kleyn. He's decent but you don't reach for him. Beirne is the sort of player who'll dominate minnows and be depth at backrow (where we might need it in the big games).

How many games does Kleyn play when he's not a serious threat to start a big game as things stand. The 3 front runners don't normally need careful time management and will need to be sharp.

The situation at 7 means that Murphy goes and will primarily be a 7. There's a premium on covering 6.

Is Kleyn good enough that you move Henderson to 6? Putting Kleyn in the training squad is about preparing him if he needs to be an injury replacement.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby matt » August 2nd, 2019, 12:53 pm

The Selection for Italy next Saturday should see a lot of the players not yet considered certainties.

Think our first 15 fairly well known and Aki, Carbury, Henderson and Conan also certainties and have a good chance of being starters.

That leaves 12 open positions 5 extra front row, 1 second row, 1 back row, 2 half backs, 2 outside backs, making a total of 30 and then the discussion will then move to the no 31 who could be the likes of Addison, Conway, Farrell, Ruddock or Beirne depending on where Joe wants additional strength/cover, my guess is Healy, best, furlong, toner, Ryan, o’mahony, Van der flier, stander, Murray, Sexton, stockdale, henshaw, ringrose, earls, r.kearney, Cronin, kilcoyne, John Ryan, henderson, Conan, marmian, Carbury, Larmour, n.scannell, bealham, Kleyn, Murphy, carty or l.mcgrath, 2 of Farrell, Addison or Conway.

The number 31 may not be an outside back if Joe thinks he is a bit light in the back row where he will want to manage van der flier and O’Mahony against overuse. We could see Ruddock, Beirne, or even Henderson at no 6 against Russia and Samoa.

Has anyone heard anything out of the ordinary from training camp?
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby leinsterforever » August 2nd, 2019, 5:43 pm

ronk wrote:I don't see the fuss over Kleyn. He's decent but you don't reach for him. Beirne is the sort of player who'll dominate minnows and be depth at backrow (where we might need it in the big games).

How many games does Kleyn play when he's not a serious threat to start a big game as things stand. The 3 front runners don't normally need careful time management and will need to be sharp.

The situation at 7 means that Murphy goes and will primarily be a 7. There's a premium on covering 6.

Is Kleyn good enough that you move Henderson to 6? Putting Kleyn in the training squad is about preparing him if he needs to be an injury replacement.


Yeah, agree with all that.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby johng » August 4th, 2019, 11:54 pm

johng wrote:Excellent piece. I would take Beirne ahead of one of Conway or Larmour personally. Otherwise it's bang on. (for me) OTOH Beirne and Ruddock is probably overkill too. But forwards take more punishment.

However both Joe and Hugo know a lot more about it than me.

Did i say Beirne? I meant Jordi Murphy of course
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby cormac » August 5th, 2019, 9:55 am

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2019/08/05/ir ... -in-sight/

Ultan Dillane and Rory Scannell have returned to their provinces.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby ronk » August 6th, 2019, 12:16 am

cormac wrote:https://www.irishrugby.ie/2019/08/05/ireland-squad-update-as-italy-match-in-sight/

Ultan Dillane and Rory Scannell have returned to their provinces.


At this stage of the preseason they may as well be back with their provinces.

It's a good sign for Kleyn though I still don't think he'll go without injuries.

Scannell was just too far off.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby johng » August 6th, 2019, 12:27 am

I think Hugo (or his moley mate) is right about Klein. Perhaps we would all see Ryan.Toner. Henderson. Beirne as the top locks in the country.. but joe loves a carthorse. Quinn Roux. Damo Brown. Big strong Tight head locks. Them and big backs.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby ronk » August 6th, 2019, 1:17 am

Where's Quinn Roux though?

As things stand 5 back row makes sense. Sometimes countries stretch for 6. It makes sense for Murphy and Conan to be the subs.

Plan A for an injury at 6 would then be move Stander or Murphy there.

Beirne is a good jumping option at 6 and a good breakdown option considering we are already light there without Leavy and SOB.

In a big match I'm ok with Beirne partnering Toner, Ryan or Henderson in the engine room. Once Japan is out of the way we have Russia and Samoa. I prefer Beirne for those games.

He also is a safer option from a disciplinary standpoint.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby johng » August 6th, 2019, 5:25 am

Klein is a taller heavier stronger Quin roux. You have Henderson in the 23 then 6 is covered. Then it comes down to a choice between Beirne or Ruddock in the 31. You or I might prefer Beirne to Klein. Joe might not.

He also may (or may not) prefer the known and trusted quantity of ruddock over beirne.

If you look at the opportunities beirne has got on one hand (not many) and the fact that klein is in the squad before he qualifies on the other hand....
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby cormac » August 6th, 2019, 3:05 pm

More players to be cut next week before the squad heads off to Portugal on Wednesday 14th, according to GT.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby Morf » August 6th, 2019, 7:54 pm

johng wrote:Klein is a taller heavier stronger Quin roux. You have Henderson in the 23 then 6 is covered. Then it comes down to a choice between Beirne or Ruddock in the 31. You or I might prefer Beirne to Klein. Joe might not.

He also may (or may not) prefer the known and trusted quantity of ruddock over beirne.

If you look at the opportunities beirne has got on one hand (not many) and the fact that klein is in the squad before he qualifies on the other hand....


We always value Ruddock highly here and we're very often somewhat surprised he's dropped from squads or passed over.

He's a known quantity to Joe but only a 6 with POM very similar. Less likely to be played at 7 either. Lower down captaincy pecking order too.

I see Ruddock missing out soon to be honest.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby johng » August 6th, 2019, 8:09 pm

For Beirne?
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby The Doc » August 7th, 2019, 12:03 am

johng wrote:For Beirne?
I don't know... I had the feeling after the 6N that Beirne had not made the impact needed... That he wasn't impressing JS

I get the feeling he'll be on the reserve list


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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby Morf » August 7th, 2019, 1:08 am

johng wrote:For Beirne?


If extra forward chosen then for Beirne.

If extra 10 both lost out for Carty i reckon.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby ronk » August 7th, 2019, 1:12 am

A year ago he was a huge signing who came straight from the Scarlets to play against Oz.

He had a really good year for Munster. Maybe not the impact in a few of the big games but hardly poor either.

Something isn't right if he doesn't make the RWC squad a year out from his Scarlets exploits with Munster hero status in the meantime.

Joe might not care about the politics but it would still be a big move. Especially when versatility is key on the fringe of the squad.

Beirne has been figured out a bit against the better teams but he's a versatile and dynamic player, not just a one trick pony.
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Re: RWC2019 31-man squad

Postby Dave Cahill » August 7th, 2019, 1:40 am

If Kleyn goes and Beirne doesn't there'll be all sorts of fur flying!




If he brings 4 (nominal at least) locks, then I don't see Beirne going. Ryan, Toner and Henderson are nailed on - then it comes down to Beirne vs Kleyn vs Roux. The latter pair offer something different in terms of being the kind of 'heavy foot' that Joe has always liked to have at least one of knocking around the place.

He could still go as a back row of course - but there are limited options there too. Josh, Stander and POM would seem to be nailed on - Conan would be strong favorite too and that really only leaves one spot between Murphy, Ruddock and, perhaps, Beirne. Ruddock has captained Ireland and Murphy is another Schmidt favourite. Also, both Henderson and Roux can switch to the back row as well and going on past selections are a lot higher up the preference list than Beirne. Its going to be interesting to see how this pans out in the end.
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