RWC 2019 Warmup Games

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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby ronk » August 10th, 2019, 9:25 pm

We combines the diagonal kicking with keeping the ball alive and finishing on the wing. That's not something we've been strong at from close in.
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby ronk » August 11th, 2019, 12:03 am

Going out of the way to put Ryan and Porter on the field at the same time is a strong indicator that Joe is planning on bringing 5 props.

One implication is that there's a McGrath - Kilcoyne battle.

Another is that there's a position elsewhere in the squad.
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby Blueberry » August 11th, 2019, 9:49 am

Pretty dour game but to be expected.

Ruddock exceptional, for me our starting six. Luke McGrath had a cracking game and if Murray is not on song Luke must start. Ringrose of course looked quality and otherwise we learnt not a lot.

Jordi struggled can't see him going, Kleyn is just a lump won't travel, Toner needs game time, Carbery is still number two and Farrell useful backup in the centre.
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby Oldschool » August 11th, 2019, 12:32 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:In a game that ranks among the most forgettable Irish internationals I have ever attended, Carbery's injury was the most important event from an Irish perspective. However, Schmidt and his fellow Coaches will have taken more from the game than mere fans and no doubt we will find out in the next few weeks just what they learned.

From where I was sitting, Conway, Farrell, Jack McGrath, Porter, Beirne, Ruddock all added to their credit in the bank.

Ringrose, Carbery, Marmion, Healy, Henderson & Toner don't need any rating and will be travelling if fit.

Larmour, Kearney, Carty, Scannell, John Ryan, Kleyn, O'Donnell had good and bad moments and will hope for a further chance to impress.

For Haley, Luke McGrath, Herring and Murphy, the chances of being in Japan next month have diminished, maybe even extinguished. Murphy, in particular, really disappointed and looked under-powered for an international backrow.

The most important thing Joe et al need to have learned from that game is FEAR.
Thinking that we were playing possum during the 6Bs and now this game, not showing our hand and all that stuff is fine.
HOWEVER there is no guarantee that when the time comes we can just turn it on, on demand.
That, gentleman, players, coaches and fans is what we should all be worried (FEARful of) about come RWC time.
We never got going yesterday, never got into any kind of fluency in our play.
DISJOINTED is the word.
EOS may have been grumpy but thank God somebody was.
Somebody needs to shake the tree a bit and find out what is hiding up there.

On a positive note the one tactic that was new in its' frequency was out chipping thru.
More fear, I don't think JS can play like that (anymore) unless he's prepared to drop back.
Joey (especially) and Carty seemed to be prepared to do it on the front foot and did it very effectively.
Larmour too seems to be trying to adapt his game.
The one thing he needs to stop doing is losing momentum when in possession and losing said possession as a result.
At some point he has to realise that it's time to stop stepping and just go hard, a little bit sooner than he is currently doing.

Remember FEAR, it's a great motivator and we don't look motivated.
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby Cianostays » August 11th, 2019, 1:38 pm

ronk wrote:Going out of the way to put Ryan and Porter on the field at the same time is a strong indicator that Joe is planning on bringing 5 props.

One implication is that there's a McGrath - Kilcoyne battle.

Another is that there's a position elsewhere in the squad.
I wonder will he apply the same logic at halfback? Murray, Marmion, Sexton, Carbery & Cooney covering 9 and 10.

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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby Ruckedtobits » August 11th, 2019, 6:10 pm

Contrast the game between England & Wales and ours versus Italy and they could be different sports.

A long way to go to get to the pitch at which SH & other real contenders will be playing at for the next 8 weeks.
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby Cianostays » August 11th, 2019, 7:47 pm

Vs England 1-23: Kilcoyne, Best, Ryan, Ryan, Henderson, PO'M, VDF, Conan, Murray, Carty, Stockdale, Aki, Addison, Earls, Rob K, Cronin, Porter, Furlong, Beirne, Stander, Cooney, Byrne, Conway.

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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby Barry » August 12th, 2019, 11:44 am

RugbyPass reporting that Carbery is out for 6 weeks and will miss the Scotland game.
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby jimbobjoe » August 12th, 2019, 11:58 am

Barry wrote:RugbyPass reporting that Carbery is out for 6 weeks and will miss the Scotland game.


RP have got a lot of these things wrong in the past. Will wait for the official announcement.
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby Ruckedtobits » August 12th, 2019, 4:33 pm

Really fascinated at how unanimously the scribes consigned Jack McGrath to the "losers list" from Saturday's game. Here's a different read of it.

Ireland got four scrum penalties in the first half from 5 scrums. Our LHP was going forward in each scrum. Our LHP handled four times and went forward on each occasion and the ball was presented for our SH on each occasion. Our LHP made three individual tackles and two combined tackles none missed. Our LHP conceded one penalty for collapsing an Italian maul that was moving towards our line.

Ireland have named four THPs in our Squad. Tadgh Furlong is an automatic selection. Each of the other three THPs have also got experience of playing at loose-head. Feek and Schmidt will select two from Porter, Ryan and Bealham. To determine which two, each will get time playing at loose-head for some time in a warm-up game. Last Saturday, it was pre-determined before the game that Porter or Ryan would start the second-half at loose-head.

If I was Jack McGrath, I would be happy with Saturday's display. So will Greg Feek, except for one Italian scrum in the second-half with Toner and Henderson in the row and Porter at loose-head when we conceded a penalty going backwards. Was that a flaw on Porter's side or lack of power behind the THP?
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby RichardP » August 12th, 2019, 11:36 pm

FLIP wrote:Some players put their hands up…TOD wasn't at all noticeable……

What game were you watching? The top tackler wasn’t noticeable?
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby dropkick » August 13th, 2019, 8:12 am

Good article on the kicking game here. https://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-k ... 4-Aug2019/


That's the main thing I took from the game. They really varied the kicks and looked to exploit space rather than the preprogrammed box kick from the 9.


Schmidt will be looking to mix the game up more or at least have the threat of doing so and keep the opposition defenders stretched. We saw at the weekend what you might call plan B.


These new kicks will help open up defences. The (ROG's!) crusaders were doing it all season and if teams went to defend their variety of kicks it usually left space somewhere else. It manipulates the defence. I liked the kicking from deep. Why clear it to touch if you can get a winger like Conway up against another winger.


The Italians had to adapt to it which leaves their defence weak somewhere else.


Though it wasn't the greatest game I don't think the team was going out to win by as much as possible and JS will be happy with how it went. EOS might disagree but he was only looking at the game and not the big picture.


One other big benefit of that gameplan is it's not very attritional. The last group game is against Samoa and the last thing they need going into that is a war of attrition. If they played mainly this type of kicking game then there would be a lot fewer big collisions and there would be more stoppages which means less ball in play time. Obviously Carbery got injured but that was a bit freakish.


The 6N was poor but it shows the benefits of playing against quality opposition. They'll expose any weakness. They've done us a favour in that regard.
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby hugonaut » August 13th, 2019, 9:44 pm

dropkick wrote:Good article on the kicking game here. https://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-k ... 4-Aug2019/


That's the main thing I took from the game. They really varied the kicks and looked to exploit space rather than the preprogrammed box kick from the 9.


Schmidt will be looking to mix the game up more or at least have the threat of doing so and keep the opposition defenders stretched. We saw at the weekend what you might call plan B.


These new kicks will help open up defences. The (ROG's!) crusaders were doing it all season and if teams went to defend their variety of kicks it usually left space somewhere else. It manipulates the defence. I liked the kicking from deep. Why clear it to touch if you can get a winger like Conway up against another winger.


The Italians had to adapt to it which leaves their defence weak somewhere else.


Though it wasn't the greatest game I don't think the team was going out to win by as much as possible and JS will be happy with how it went. EOS might disagree but he was only looking at the game and not the big picture.


One other big benefit of that gameplan is it's not very attritional. The last group game is against Samoa and the last thing they need going into that is a war of attrition. If they played mainly this type of kicking game then there would be a lot fewer big collisions and there would be more stoppages which means less ball in play time. Obviously Carbery got injured but that was a bit freakish.


The 6N was poor but it shows the benefits of playing against quality opposition. They'll expose any weakness. They've done us a favour in that regard.


Good points, Dropkick. I thought that Carty's kicking game was very accomplished when he came on as well. There was one instance when he kicked when he might have passed – he had space and pacy players outside him – but he executed the kick very well, so any criticism of his decision-making can only be conditional. I thought that Carbery kicked well and varied his play much better than he has in the past at test level.
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby Ruckedtobits » August 17th, 2019, 9:05 pm

Another team putting their hand up is France in their game in Nice against Scotland. Approaching half-time, they are 20-3 with three tries in the bag already and a backline which looks threatening and familiar with each other. New boy Raka scored after 90 secs and Fofana and Lopez look very comfortable at 10 & 12.

Very difficult to evaluate the scrumming as the football pitch was disintegrating everywhere they scrummed. Overall, the French looked very impressive with ball in hand and fitter than they have been for years.
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby hugonaut » August 17th, 2019, 10:44 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:Another team putting their hand up is France in their game in Nice against Scotland. Approaching half-time, they are 20-3 with three tries in the bag already and a backline which looks threatening and familiar with each other. New boy Raka scored after 90 secs and Fofana and Lopez look very comfortable at 10 & 12.

Very difficult to evaluate the scrumming as the football pitch was disintegrating everywhere they scrummed. Overall, the French looked very impressive with ball in hand and fitter than they have been for years.


Serious amount of changes in the team from the outfit that we whipped in Lansdowne Road.

For that game, they lined out:

Forwards [1-8]: Poirot, Guirado, Bamba, Lambey, Vahaamahina, Lauret, Iturria, Picamoles
Backs [9-15]: Dupont, Ntamack, Huget, Bastareaud, Fickou, Penaud, Ramos

This evening's matchsaw them line out:
Forwards [1-8]: Poirot, Chat, Slimani, Gabrillagues, Vahaamahina, Cros, Ollivon, Aldrit
Backs [9-15]: Dupont, Lopez, Raka, Fofana, Fickou, Penaud, Medard

Ten changes and a huge change in success. Happy to see Ollivon in the team. He was a phenom as a young player in Bayonne, then moved to Toulon and struggled to make a mark.
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby Ruckedtobits » August 18th, 2019, 9:45 pm

hugonaut wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:Another team putting their hand up is France in their game in Nice against Scotland. Approaching half-time, they are 20-3 with three tries in the bag already and a backline which looks threatening and familiar with each other. New boy Raka scored after 90 secs and Fofana and Lopez look very comfortable at 10 & 12.

Very difficult to evaluate the scrumming as the football pitch was disintegrating everywhere they scrummed. Overall, the French looked very impressive with ball in hand and fitter than they have been for years.


Serious amount of changes in the team from the outfit that we whipped in Lansdowne Road.

For that game, they lined out:

Forwards [1-8]: Poirot, Guirado, Bamba, Lambey, Vahaamahina, Lauret, Iturria, Picamoles
Backs [9-15]: Dupont, Ntamack, Huget, Bastareaud, Fickou, Penaud, Ramos

This evening's matchsaw them line out:
Forwards [1-8]: Poirot, Chat, Slimani, Gabrillagues, Vahaamahina, Cros, Ollivon, Aldrit
Backs [9-15]: Dupont, Lopez, Raka, Fofana, Fickou, Penaud, Medard

Ten changes and a huge change in success. Happy to see Ollivon in the team. He was a phenom as a young player in Bayonne, then moved to Toulon and struggled to make a mark.


Their mid-field and back five in the pack worked really well and all looked fit and strong and very confident in the shape of game France were playing.

Dupont and Lopez look very comfortable together. Dupont in particular just gets better every time you see him. No question France will be a handful yet again in this RWC.

On the other hand, Scotland are getting slaughtered by their own media and former players. Apart from the understandable criticism about their form away from home, barbed question are being voiced aloud about Townsend's choice of Game Plan and style, never mind his player selections.

The media commentators are critical of the absence of any pragmatism in the way Scotland play. No decent scrum (he put Fagerson into LHP for the 2nd half), a line-out that functions sporadically and total neglect of the kicking game from half-backs. Nobody seems prepared to cut Townsend any slack that this was their first game of the Season. Every Scottish based commentator or former player was uniformly critical of the Scottish display.

There will be more than Irish eyes on our performance next week in Twickenham. Scotland hope that their timing (like ours) will see their National team arrive on September 21st in peak form and without any key injuries.

England, Wales, France and NZ have all used their August fixtures to bring their selected Squads to world-cup pitch. Ireland and Scotland are using the games to finalise their selection and gently bring their teams to the boil.

Which method is right or can both methods work? The story will unfold over the next four weeks.
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby dropkick » August 19th, 2019, 9:58 am

hugonaut wrote:
dropkick wrote:Good article on the kicking game here. https://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-k ... 4-Aug2019/


That's the main thing I took from the game. They really varied the kicks and looked to exploit space rather than the preprogrammed box kick from the 9.


Schmidt will be looking to mix the game up more or at least have the threat of doing so and keep the opposition defenders stretched. We saw at the weekend what you might call plan B.


These new kicks will help open up defences. The (ROG's!) crusaders were doing it all season and if teams went to defend their variety of kicks it usually left space somewhere else. It manipulates the defence. I liked the kicking from deep. Why clear it to touch if you can get a winger like Conway up against another winger.


The Italians had to adapt to it which leaves their defence weak somewhere else.


Though it wasn't the greatest game I don't think the team was going out to win by as much as possible and JS will be happy with how it went. EOS might disagree but he was only looking at the game and not the big picture.


One other big benefit of that gameplan is it's not very attritional. The last group game is against Samoa and the last thing they need going into that is a war of attrition. If they played mainly this type of kicking game then there would be a lot fewer big collisions and there would be more stoppages which means less ball in play time. Obviously Carbery got injured but that was a bit freakish.


The 6N was poor but it shows the benefits of playing against quality opposition. They'll expose any weakness. They've done us a favour in that regard.


Good points, Dropkick. I thought that Carty's kicking game was very accomplished when he came on as well. There was one instance when he kicked when he might have passed – he had space and pacy players outside him – but he executed the kick very well, so any criticism of his decision-making can only be conditional. I thought that Carbery kicked well and varied his play much better than he has in the past at test level.



I think tactical kicking will be big in this world cup. Every team seem to be doing it more as a way to beat the rush defense. It'll be very interesting from a tactical point of view.
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby ronk » August 19th, 2019, 11:43 pm

Wingers were getting better at dropping back for box kicks and teams were covering chasers better.

Moving to kicking at 10 helps a bit but still gives defenses a read that they can align off. Adding some clever kicking in midfield is where it really taxs a defence.
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby Oldschool » August 20th, 2019, 11:05 am

dropkick wrote:I think tactical kicking will be big in this world cup. Every team seem to be doing it more as a way to beat the rush defense. It'll be very interesting from a tactical point of view.

Agree.
The French tried a few chip thru's against Scotland.
However, one caveat, kicking away possession to the likes of NZ or France is fraught with risk, particularly to their back three.
Oz kicked hardly at all in the Perth test against NZ, dominated possession and won well, haven't seen last weekend's match yet.
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Postby dropkick » August 21st, 2019, 8:35 am

Oldschool wrote:
dropkick wrote:I think tactical kicking will be big in this world cup. Every team seem to be doing it more as a way to beat the rush defense. It'll be very interesting from a tactical point of view.

Agree.
The French tried a few chip thru's against Scotland.
However, one caveat, kicking away possession to the likes of NZ or France is fraught with risk, particularly to their back three.
Oz kicked hardly at all in the Perth test against NZ, dominated possession and won well, haven't seen last weekend's match yet.



Indeed but they still should do it a bit just to keep the opposition defence guessing and cut out the loose kicks.
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