RWC 2019 Warmup Games

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Ruckedtobits
Rob Kearney
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Experimental wrote:The first half was acceptable considering its our first real game, but shocked at how off the pace we were in that second half, we gave up, and thats really not like us. There were some positives, but not many
Within the first four minutes of the 2nd half, compared to the first, Irish players started to tackle with their arms rather than their shoulders and bodies. Instinctively, I assumed it was a reaction to Murray's re-injury which they would have become totally aware of at half-time.

My real concerns were two-fold: our terrible line-out display with three jumpers available against two and our mid-field passing and lines of running (10, 12, and 13).
Firstly our mid-field looked totally disjointed with first phase possesion other than going wide long from right to left. On this showing, the Leinster half-backs could well be available for all the Pro14 games.

However, much worse was the line-out shambles. With 13 years of international rugby under his belt, our captain must be able to do better than that. Equally, Henderson is a Lion and now captain of his Province, how could he have managed to find Itoje and Kruise in competition with his calls so often when he had JvDF, PO'M and himself available on every throw?

What I was happier with was our scrum and maul performance in the first half. Both were acceptable and stifled the English attack to some degree. I think our defence from their first try was sloppy but interfered with by Owen's block of Bundee.

Overall, our performance was like England's batsmen yesterday. Terrible, but more about attitude than technique or ability. By next week, the Irish players will have remembered, or been reminded, that you can't play serious international rugby with your head only. You need body and soul involved.
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outcast eddie
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by outcast eddie »

I fear for the group psychological damage this will cause. This team can justifiably fear England, they have been embarrassed by the red Rose twice in 7 months. They will need to beat Wales b2b to regain from this and I can’t see that happening. It was a bad decision to play England in twickenham in such a poor state of readiness and so soon after a flight. Joe needs to drop some high profile forwards who are not performing just like Eddie Jones did.
The odds are good but the goods are odd.
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CiaranIrl
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by CiaranIrl »

They look like they're not sure what to do when they get the ball. It's bizarre. I could write it off if the 6N wasn't so fresh in my mind. Phase after phase of inaccurate passes to marked players catching it standing still. The lost line-out at the end when England had 14, with the missing man being one of the main jumpers... That just about summed the day up.
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ronk
Jamie Heaslip
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by ronk »

Good time to panic. Clearly preparations have gone wrong on some levels and there isnt much time to fix it.

Lots of parallels with 2007, long serving manager, really high hopes, settled team where everyone knows the starting XV, early injury panic that grew, long camp, warning signs in 6N/warm up games etc.

EOS was too late to take action when players lost form.

It may still be fixable at this stage but it needs fixing. Some of it is players and some is coaching.

Whatever the plan was it wasn't to get done this badly.
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Barry
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by Barry »

suggested to a mate that Max would add more to the world cup squad than Stander.

Response :- Deegan or Bygraves ?
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Oldschool
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by Oldschool »

ronk wrote:Good time to panic. Clearly preparations have gone wrong on some levels and there isnt much time to fix it.

Lots of parallels with 2007, long serving manager, really high hopes, settled team where everyone knows the starting XV, early injury panic that grew, long camp, warning signs in 6N/warm up games etc.

EOS was too late to take action when players lost form.

It may still be fixable at this stage but it needs fixing. Some of it is players and some is coaching.

Whatever the plan was it wasn't to get done this badly.
+1
Joe was ruthless enough to leave Trimble behind when he didn't meet the fitness requirements at a point in time.
He needs to rediscover that very NZ trait.
The problems are simple to identify.
Some of the solutions too.
The lack of confidence imho is simply down to the fact that the fit for purpose players know who isn't up to it and that they're being undermined.
As you PANIC.
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Peg Leg
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by Peg Leg »

Decisions made on Jack McGrath, Stander and Kleyn yesterday for me. Sincerely doubt JS will drop Stander though.
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wixfjord
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by wixfjord »

Having had time to parse that defeat, things are bad, but maybe not time to press the panic button yet.

We were obviously tired after a week of training.
It's most of our lads first game of the season while England have had two.
We were 100% not trying any moves, which led to some fairly toothless attacking, bar the try.
The defensive issues are fixable systemic ones.
We'll get the lineout right with Toner and Ryan in there.

We're severely missing some footwork and carrying in the forwards though.

That back row just doesn't work at all. We need to change it.
Could Hendo, VDF, Conan work for eg?
Could we put Beirne in at 6 or POM in at 7?

Conan just has to start.

Ryan in there would make a big difference for carrying too imo.

My biggest worry is how poor Best and Stander are playing.
Hard to see Joe dropping either of them and it's as clear as day they're not doing enough.
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LeRouxIsPHat
Jamie Heaslip
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

I'm usually optimistic but the fact that yesterday was a continuation of the 6N means that I just can't see any positives really. We had loads of questions to answer and needed to lay down a marker of sorts but we just doubled down on all the negatives.

Johnny is out of the game next week too and obviously Joey is already out, so it looks like Johnny will go into the Scotland game very undercooked or possibly even carrying an injury.
lummix
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by lummix »

While yesterday was extremely worrying, any rugby player will tell you at this time off year you can run into a team that are just that bit further on in their preparations and are more match hardened than you are and you can get beat out the gate. This doesn't necessarily mean you are in a bad position for the important games.
I feel that happened yesterday but we need to see a performance before the Scotland match as this losing run can't be good for confidence.
Ruckedtobits
Rob Kearney
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Anybody looking for valid comparisons or consolation need look no further than the Scottish performance against France in Nice and their victory yesterday in Murrayfield.

They got torn apart by media and past players all week after Nice. They kept their heads down and their mouths shut and produced a retort on the pitch yesterday.

Motivation can be bruised pride and can supercede fear of injury. This Irish team know they can play better than they have done in this calendar year. I remain confident they will find their mojo before they face Scotland.
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Dave Cahill
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by Dave Cahill »

Does it actually matter?

If Ireland win the world cup, Joe Schmidt leaves, O'Farrell takes over

If Ireland lose every game at the world cup, Joe Schmidt leaves, O'Farrell takes over.

As far as the world cup is concerned, Irish Rugby operates in an entirely consequence free environment.
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FLIP
Seán Cronin
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by FLIP »

Why is POM getting such a free ride from fans and the media?
Anyone But New Zealand
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neiliog93
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by neiliog93 »

The most worrying thing is there seems to be an assumption that this is 'fixable'. Obviously, the most egregious aspects of yesterday's performance probably are fixable (e.g. misfiring set-pieces, the worst missed tackles, handling errors, poor defensive reads, etc.).

But what isn't fixable is the fact that England have bigger, faster, more explosive athletes all over the park. They are guided by good coaching, the most resources of any national union on the planet, and the on-field finesse and decision-making of Ford and Farrell. Cokanasiga, Tuilagi, the Vunipolas, Itoje, Sinckler and May are vastly superior in terms of speed, power and athleticism to anyone we can offer, with the possible exception of Cian Healy. Such a gap in innate physical qualities simply cannot be overcome, especially in good weather.
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

neiliog93 wrote:The most worrying thing is there seems to be an assumption that this is 'fixable'. Obviously, the most egregious aspects of yesterday's performance probably are fixable (e.g. misfiring set-pieces, the worst missed tackles, handling errors, poor defensive reads, etc.).

But what isn't fixable is the fact that England have bigger, faster, more explosive athletes all over the park. They are guided by good coaching, the most resources of any national union on the planet, and the on-field finesse and decision-making of Ford and Farrell. Cokanasiga, Tuilagi, the Vunipolas, Itoje, Sinckler and May are vastly superior in terms of speed, power and athleticism to anyone we can offer, with the possible exception of Cian Healy. Such a gap in innate physical qualities simply cannot be overcome, especially in good weather.
Can’t meet England until semis at the earliest, so that’s not a worry. It’s the mauling NZ or SA will dish out in the quarters I’d be fearful of.
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kermischocolate
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by kermischocolate »

neiliog93 wrote:The most worrying thing is there seems to be an assumption that this is 'fixable'. Obviously, the most egregious aspects of yesterday's performance probably are fixable (e.g. misfiring set-pieces, the worst missed tackles, handling errors, poor defensive reads, etc.).

But what isn't fixable is the fact that England have bigger, faster, more explosive athletes all over the park. They are guided by good coaching, the most resources of any national union on the planet, and the on-field finesse and decision-making of Ford and Farrell. Cokanasiga, Tuilagi, the Vunipolas, Itoje, Sinckler and May are vastly superior in terms of speed, power and athleticism to anyone we can offer, with the possible exception of Cian Healy. Such a gap in innate physical qualities simply cannot be overcome, especially in good weather.
So why not just give them the world cup now as there's clearly no need for anyone else to turn up?!
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neiliog93
Shane Horgan
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by neiliog93 »

kermischocolate wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:The most worrying thing is there seems to be an assumption that this is 'fixable'. Obviously, the most egregious aspects of yesterday's performance probably are fixable (e.g. misfiring set-pieces, the worst missed tackles, handling errors, poor defensive reads, etc.).

But what isn't fixable is the fact that England have bigger, faster, more explosive athletes all over the park. They are guided by good coaching, the most resources of any national union on the planet, and the on-field finesse and decision-making of Ford and Farrell. Cokanasiga, Tuilagi, the Vunipolas, Itoje, Sinckler and May are vastly superior in terms of speed, power and athleticism to anyone we can offer, with the possible exception of Cian Healy. Such a gap in innate physical qualities simply cannot be overcome, especially in good weather.
So why not just give them the world cup now as there's clearly no need for anyone else to turn up?!
South Africa, New Zealand or Wales might beat them, we almost definitely won't.
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Twist
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by Twist »

Peg Leg wrote:Decisions made on Jack McGrath, Stander and Kleyn yesterday for me. Sincerely doubt JS will drop Stander though.
I don’t think there’s enough info yet on Kleyn. Pretty much everyone was below test standard yesterday


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Blue not red blood
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by Blue not red blood »

While Joe was sanguine enough I reckon inside he was fuming.
How can he honestly start POM ahead of Henderson or Ruddock. They both bring raw aggression and strength. Which to my mind POm doesn’t possess.
Following that logic do you bring him.
Stander has been on borrowed time for me.
Best has to be sailing close to the wind but would it cause too much disruption to the camp to leave him at home?

We would never go into a test match following a week of heavy training.
Looked badly undercooked which I have no concerns about. As long as the intensity picks up in both games I will be happy enough.
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ronk
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by ronk »

Lineout and tackling are fixable. Our variety in kicking was getting better.

Their passing/attacking shape was much better than ours. Our decision making in defence was as bad as in attack, same standard.

That problem has been building.
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