No. Japan has 8 days then 7 days then 8 days.kermischocolate wrote:Doesn't every team have a 3 or 4 day turnaround for one of the pool games?
Nobody would have mentioned it if they didn't knock us over though
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No. Japan has 8 days then 7 days then 8 days.kermischocolate wrote:Doesn't every team have a 3 or 4 day turnaround for one of the pool games?
I was at the Kobe Misake Stadium tonight. WR have deemed that the roof is closed for all matches, despite it being a hot humid night outside and hotter and more humid inside. Both sides could barely string a few passes together due to the ball being so slippery, and players were slipping on the turf left and right.Twist wrote:Even with Samoa playing poorly the Scots laboured to the bonus point. The consensus seems to be that the indoor stadium didn't help with handling. Worth taking note of that, since we really need 10 points now.
That's the impression I got alright. That's certainly less than ideal, it increases the attrition rateFLIP wrote:I was at the Kobe Misake Stadium tonight. WR have deemed that the roof is closed for all matches, despite it being a hot humid night outside and hotter and more humid inside. Both sides could barely string a few passes together due to the ball being so slippery, and players were slipping on the turf left and right.Twist wrote:Even with Samoa playing poorly the Scots laboured to the bonus point. The consensus seems to be that the indoor stadium didn't help with handling. Worth taking note of that, since we really need 10 points now.
We need to play this next game as a full power game. No fancy stuff, otherwise we'll look foolish
Great. We need those games to as hard as possible to have even a remote chance in a quarter final. I doubt NZ or SA have any interest whatsoever in the number of rest days Namibia or Canada have / had before playing them.Twist wrote:That's the impression I got alright. That's certainly less than ideal, it increases the attrition rateFLIP wrote:I was at the Kobe Misake Stadium tonight. WR have deemed that the roof is closed for all matches, despite it being a hot humid night outside and hotter and more humid inside. Both sides could barely string a few passes together due to the ball being so slippery, and players were slipping on the turf left and right.Twist wrote:Even with Samoa playing poorly the Scots laboured to the bonus point. The consensus seems to be that the indoor stadium didn't help with handling. Worth taking note of that, since we really need 10 points now.
We need to play this next game as a full power game. No fancy stuff, otherwise we'll look foolish
Also on the subject of gaps between matches, I noticed that both Samoa and Russia have 8-day lead-ins to their games against us so they should be as fresh as possible really
Also. We have only 5 to Russia who are the easier of the 2 and 9 to Samoa who are the harder.CiaranIrl wrote: Great. We need those games to as hard as possible to have even a remote chance in a quarter final. I doubt NZ or SA have any interest whatsoever in the number of rest days Namibia or Canada have / had before playing them.
We don’t need 10 points unless Japan draw with Scotland and fail to pick up any more 4 try bonus pointsTwist wrote:Even with Samoa playing poorly the Scots laboured to the bonus point. The consensus seems to be that the indoor stadium didn't help with handling. Worth taking note of that, since we really need 10 points now.
My impression and memory (and I’m open to correction) is that they did dip in and out this season as they saw fit to meet the needs of the national team. I also think Jamie Joseph stood down from helping coach the sunwolves this season, officially at least, leaving Tony Brown to head up his own crew. The implication again being that he was focusing on the national team. On top of that, they were told mid-season that they weren’t going to be offered a place in the competition from next year onwards. Results kind of went as you’d expect after that, but in the first half of last season I remember them as very competitive and very, very impressive. They should really have won more games than they did in the early part of the season.neiliog93 wrote:I thought it was only in the most recent Super Rugby season that many of the Japanese international players had their Sunwolves gametime curtailed?
Good write up as usual LRIP. I was at the game [just back from Tokyo and all ends up sleepwise] and I have to say that the atmosphere in the stadium was phenomenal. Not sure how it came across on TV, but it was incredibly loud in there. I've only known a couple of occasions like it – our semi-final against Munster in Croker and the game we lost against NZ in 2013.LeRouxIsPHat wrote:That call, the penalty against Josh, and missing the in from the side in their 22 which led to them breaking down the pitch were so blatantly wrong by Gardener. Infuriating.enby wrote:On 52 mins Carty is taken out in the air right under ref's nose but doesn't make a meal of it. Ref calls it as a knock on and rather than issuing a yellow card and giving us the penalty which would give us good field position, he gives Japan good field position and 2 minutes later they get their try. Really important non-decision by Gardner. one of many.
Japan deserved their win but they were undoubtedly aided and abetted by a one eyed ref
I'm not as down on the perfomance as everyone else is.
Gardner and the heat played a big part. Our game management was shocking after Japan came into the game but that's my biggest gripe and really you're talking about a handful of moments being different. It's not the first time we've declined to give ourselves a breather and inviting the counter attack when we're knackered, very annoying that we did it again. As the game went on I think we were so afraid of being pinged for offside or slowing the ball down that we just decided not to try, so couldn't get the ball back or slow Japan down.
I think we got the selection wrong as well. I say this very much with the benefit of hindsight but we should have rotated the pack a bit, even if it was just Best given that he played 80 minutes last weekend.
I'm not saying we were good, and assuming we do end up on the NZ/England side of the draw then I've no doubt that our goose is cooked in terms of winning the tournament, but we only needed a very small number of things to go differently and we'd have won yesterday. Maybe even just one lost lineout might have been the difference in the end and we'd have got over the line without much difference in the performance but a huge difference in the perception of it. Fine margins.
Japan were outstanding regardless. It's not like they were hanging on, they were smart and played some great stuff. I thought we were lucky with the ref against Scotland and Japan had that luck yesterday, but it's not like he took the game away from us. We should have had answers to what we were faced with and we didn't.
Ruckedtobits wrote:Much as I enjoy Murray Kinsella's analysis pieces, his current offering:
https://www.the42.ie/rugby-weekly-irela ... 5-Sep2019/
is much too generous to the hosts and does not properly analyse just how much they bend the Laws of the game, particularly at the breakdown.
Their illegality didn't start after 20 or 40 minutes but rather at the very beginning of the game and continued all the way through.
Although it makes for exciting rugby, the reality is that they consistently infringe in a number of ways, notably how and from what direction they enter the breakdown and how they "clean out" opponents at the breakdown.
Anyone interested in the detail, and I hope that includes World Rugby referees and the Scottish Rugby video analysts, can study any or all three minute segments of last Sunday's game and probably find what I have illustrated below. I've looked in close detail at a two-minute spell from the match clock after just 2 minutes of play till the match clock passed 4 minutes and here is the summary (I am only documenting the Japanese infringements, although there were some Irish ones also):
2.00 mins.: From ruck on Irish right touchline after Earls inside run, Murray passes to Furlong, who is supported closely by Ryan. Furlong is tackled by Japanese No 7 and Ryan creates the ruck (two attackers, one defender). Japan No 8 enters completely from his right side of ruck, i.e. not through the "gate" and picks up the ball and passes it to a team mate. Referee Decision:, Play on. Correct Decision: Penalty Ireland for side entry.
2.10 mins: Rob Kearney collects the kick from the Japanese out-half just behind his own 10 mtr line, 15 mtrs from touchline. He kicks a 20 mtr Garryowen with the closest Japanese player 7 mtrs away and follows his kick. After four strides he is body-checked by Japanese No 12, who slows his chase of the kick although Kearney does not go to ground. Referee Decision: Play on. Correct decision: Penalty Ireland for obstruction.
2.25 mins: Japanese out half passes left to No.3 who is tackled by Cian Healy around the legs. No 3 is supported on his left by another Japanese player, thus a ruck has been formed ( 2 attackers, 1 defender). The next player to arrive is Japanese No 4, who does not enter "through the gate", but from the right side, beyond his tackled teammate, and then he grapples Gary Ringrose a further 3 mtrs beyond the player on the ground. Referee Decision: Play on. Correct Decision: : Penalty Ireland. Side entry and obstruction beyond the breakdown
2.45 mins: Japan play the ball right, breakdown, right, breakdown and then left to No 3 who carries almost 15 mtrs, through the Irish defensive line before being tackled by Ryan. The first Japanese player in support No 4, goes almost a mtr beyond his tackled colleague, holding onto James Ryan and enters the breakdown from the Irish side. Referee Decision: Play on. Correct Decision: Penalty Ireland. Side entry and obstruction.
3.12 mins: Japan have retained possession in attack through 6 phases and are on 15 mtr line on left side, half-way between 22 and Irish 10 mtr line. Moving right to left, scrum-half passes to No 15 as first receiver who passes to No 6, running diagonally right towards Irish posts. He is well tackled by Farrell, assisted by Furlong with O'Mahony arriving on Irish right side of tackle to try to "poach" ball. Japan No 8 enters left side of tackle area 1 metre beyond the tackled player and ball and using only his shoulder without any arm involvement, attempts to prevent O'Mahony competing for the ball. Referee Decision: Play on. Correct Decision: Penalty Ireland. Side entry, illegal clearout and possibly dangerous no arms rucking.
On the 9th phase of this Japanese attack which had made 70 mtrs in territory, Japan grubber kicked through on the Irish left wing where Jacob Stockdale was fortunate with the bounce and deprived No 14 of what might have been a sensational Japanese start.
However, during those 9 phases Japan had wilfully infringed on 5 occasions, all of which were ignored by Angus Gardner, the Referee.. Like much of the game this segment was played at helter skelter pace and was hugely entertaining to watch. But, that does not give the Referee licence to ignore significant infringements. The Japanese style of play may be effective, efficient and entertaining but it is also regularly in breach of the Laws of the game and those illegalities cannot be ignored.
From what I have been able to analyse from the TV coverage of the game, Gardner may have wrongly penalised Ireland on two occasions only - a very low % over 80 minutes and about which we can have no complaint. However, he only refereed Ireland. He almost totally ignored Japanese infringements and analysis of any 3 minute segment of the game, whether Japan are attacking or defending, will prove the case very strongly.
As a former Referee (and player), I have studiously attempted to avoid the indictment of the Referee for the result of any game, no matter the competition. However, at every level of the game, there are 'homers'- referees who seem unable to referee both teams equally and favour the home team disproportionately, usually influenced by crowd noise reaction.
Gardner's performance had all the hallmarks of a 'homer' and this criticism does not detract from the excellence of much of Japan's performance. However, some of their tactical approach, specifically at tackle and ruck, is plainly illegal and must be picked up if refereeing is to regain credibility in this RWC.
Agree 100%, both with the game analysis and this!hugonaut wrote:
By the way, could not get over Japan. The Japanese people are so pleasant, polite and helpful, their culture so civilised and respectful, their cities and infrastructre so well thought-out and maintained ... it is a magic place.
Can see where you're coming from.LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I know it's not the biggest game of the World Cup and many people won't be able to watch it, but judging by this thread the interest seems to be diminishing.
Happy enough with that team. I'll forgive Jordi if he puts in a 1/10 performance, huge ask for him to play well. Given what happened Henshaw I'm slightly worried about him picking up a muscle injury by having to play so soon after flying over.
Curious to see if Johnny appears next week or not now, and also where Joey will come on. Personally I'd split the time 50/30 between them in each of the next two games, and maybe bring Carty on at 12 (and get Ringrose off ASAP) during this game if it's all going to plan.
I'd leave Tadhg on the bench as well unless there's an injury. It'll be tough in the conditions but we really need Ryan to go the 80. I was half tempted to say that Porter should come on at LH but he could do with more time at TH and at this stage it's probably unlikely that he'll be needed at LH later in the tournament.
Getting ahead of myself here but I'm also curious to see if this is Kleyn's only appearance in the group. Dev was poor in Italy but there's no doubt in my mind that he'd have made more than one group appearance.
Ryan absolutely needs to go 80 mins. I would go so far as to say that that's his role in this squad in the current circumstances, to go the distance in this match. He hasn't been in the matchday squad in the first two games, and they've been in camp together since mid-June, which is 15-16 weeks ago at this stage. The depth chart has been established by performance in matches and training over that period, and he's the last cab off the lot.LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I know it's not the biggest game of the World Cup and many people won't be able to watch it, but judging by this thread the interest seems to be diminishing.
Happy enough with that team. I'll forgive Jordi if he puts in a 1/10 performance, huge ask for him to play well. Given what happened Henshaw I'm slightly worried about him picking up a muscle injury by having to play so soon after flying over.
Curious to see if Johnny appears next week or not now, and also where Joey will come on. Personally I'd split the time 50/30 between them in each of the next two games, and maybe bring Carty on at 12 (and get Ringrose off ASAP) during this game if it's all going to plan.
I'd leave Tadhg on the bench as well unless there's an injury. It'll be tough in the conditions but we really need Ryan to go the 80. I was half tempted to say that Porter should come on at LH but he could do with more time at TH and at this stage it's probably unlikely that he'll be needed at LH later in the tournament.
Getting ahead of myself here but I'm also curious to see if this is Kleyn's only appearance in the group. Dev was poor in Italy but there's no doubt in my mind that he'd have made more than one group appearance.
IMO, he's one of the two worst referees at this Tournament so far. No prize from guessing who's bottom of my list.Oldschool wrote:The ref for the Scotland v Japan game is Ben O'Keeffe(NZ), I think.
Were I an Irish fan in Japan, at the time, and could get a ticket for the game I'd go along as a Scotland fan and join in a concerted effort to get on the refs back.
Dundalk 1 wrote:We don’t need 10 points unless Japan draw with Scotland and fail to pick up any more 4 try bonus pointsTwist wrote:Even with Samoa playing poorly the Scots laboured to the bonus point. The consensus seems to be that the indoor stadium didn't help with handling. Worth taking note of that, since we really need 10 points now.
9 will guarantee we stay ahead of Scotland if they get try bonus points in winning their 2 remaining games
In the event of Japan beating Scotland they will win the group assuming they beat Samoa
If Japan beat Samoa without the 4 try bonus and draw with Scotland also without a try bonus point then they will end up with 15 thus making our 4 try bonus against Samoa significant