Ah but ROG has played outhalf at pro level for 8 or so years (?), Humphreys even longer, this is effectively Staunton's second season as a pro outhalf.
Yeah, but how long was ROG a pro when he orchestrated Munster's HEC run and Ireland's win in Paris?
Personally, I think we'll have to look to the newer generations like Steenson, even Sexton to find Ireland's next outhalf
I agree. Sexton would be my choice and it seems like Cheika is grooming him too.
Staunton and Wallace's careers were badly damaged by the IRFU
How so? Being as delicate as I can I don't think Staunton helped himself at Munster while it was mainly the Ulster contingent in PAG that have halted Wallace's career. Leinster tried to sign him on a number of occasions but weren't allowed.
I think our biggest loss has been Andy Dunne. As a younster he impressed me most but unfortunately he's very injury prone. Hope to see him back at Leinster next year, if possible.
CM wrote:
How so? Being as delicate as I can I don't think Staunton helped himself at Munster while it was mainly the Ulster contingent in PAG that have halted Wallace's career. Leinster tried to sign him on a number of occasions but weren't allowed.
Whether or not that's true what relevance does that have? It's widely reported that Ulster blocked many of Leinster's attempts to sign players, including Wallace.
Think ROG made his first strt for Munster in 97/98 but I'm not certain.
As regards the IRFU, what was their fascination in turning perfectly good outhalves into poor fullbacks? Just my opinion, but an outhalf plays either 10 or 12, I'd don't see the connection between 10 and 15 as clearly, very different positions techinically, tactically, positionally (ie how you take the line, tackling, support, covering etc.)
Agree Dunne has been unlucky, but I'll happily bet that a good backs coach, with a vested interest in bringing him through, could do great work with Dunne. Ashton could be great for him, if Ashton takes an interest in him.
No-one has been able to explain why Wallace wasn't allowed join Castres, even in the Ulster A games he was being played at first centre so it's clear Ulster have given up on him as Humphreys successor.
JoseFantastique wrote:
As regards the IRFU, what was their fascination in turning perfectly good outhalves into poor fullbacks? Just my opinion, but an outhalf plays either 10 or 12, I'd don't see the connection between 10 and 15 as clearly, very different positions techinically, tactically, positionally (ie how you take the line, tackling, support, covering etc.)
I agree with you there Joey. I dont knwo if its a IRFU thing but 10 and 15 used to be far more similar postions then they are now. 15 used ot be a defecive player but now he is just another winger who can kick
Whether or not that's true what relevance does that have? It's widely reported that Ulster blocked many of Leinster's attempts to sign players, including Wallace.
Because if EOS and Pa Whelan wanted them moved, they would have outvoted Mike Reid 2-1. Like they did with Holwell, and initially with Ronnie McCormack, and like they did when they imposed Boss on Ulster (despite telling the meeja that they HAD to site him there for visa reasons, a total fabrication as it happened, Boss had sorted his Irish Passport out 12 months previously)
Do you mean the branches or the IRFU? Munster had a problem at FB so played Staunton there. They were well covered at IC.
Ulster only played Wallace at FB for a while, he's played centre for them in the past too and played FH last year for the A team
Dave, not knowing the ins and outs of the PAG I can only go on media reports which widely claim that it was Ulster who blocked many of Leinster's attempted signings. Are you sure that Ulster don't have veto rights in some cases?
CM wrote:
Dave, not knowing the ins and outs of the PAG I can only go on media reports which widely claim that it was Ulster who blocked many of Leinster's attempted signings. Are you sure that Ulster don't have veto rights in some cases?
Yep, definate. They did have a kind of dispensation as regards the signing of players from Commonwealth countries, however seeing as they only really were interested in Saffies due to the Solomons interest, and since 2001 SA is a Kolpak country, thats pretty much fallen by the wayside.
Munster had Crotty at fullback, Ulster had Cunningham coming through. I just think the 2 positions have changed and that there's no longer any justification for playing outhalves at fullback and vice versa.
JoseFantastique wrote:Munster had Crotty at fullback, Ulster had Cunningham coming through. I just think the 2 positions have changed and that there's no longer any justification for playing outhalves at fullback and vice versa.
Not saying there is but what's the problem with giving players gametime they wouldn't have gotten otherwise?
Crotty had pretty much gone off the radar by the time they started using Staunton there. And Munster needed some backup for him anyway when he was still around. Remember the CL final? Mullins had to play FB when Crotty went off.
I think Wallace was only very briefly (2003/2004 season) ahead of Cunningham at FB. Could be wrong with that but I don't remember Paddy playing there that often.
Anyway, bottom line is that all the provincial coaches should be giving the younger FHs more gametime when they can. Sometimes this doesn't happen often but there's definitely been occasions this season when Hickey and co. could have been given a little more time on the pitch.
JoseFantastique wrote:Ah but ROG has played outhalf at pro level for 8 or so years (?), Humphreys even longer, this is effectively Staunton's second season as a pro outhalf. Personally, I think we'll have to look to the newer generations like Steenson, even Sexton to find Ireland's next outhalf (I don't rate Manning too highly). Staunton and Wallace's careers were badly damaged by the IRFU (just my opinion).
Wallace never had a career to start with! Stan needs a season of regular football before you could even consider giving him the step up. Steenson, Hickey, Sexton, Manning are all prospects but none have played anywhere near enough football.
So, you can choose Humphs until we get someone through and at least he'll bring the best out of the players around him while we blood a newbie in the provinces/GP, OR keep the hordes of Turnipstan happy at everyone else's expense by playing that useless ginger **** instead. It's just as well that the management and media pundits aren't Munster-biased. What?.... Oh.
Think some of the skills of a Full back are similar to an outhalf - kicking being the most obvious. The more problematic is often tackling....though that was never a problem for Johnnie Wilkinson of course.
The issue with Paddy Wallace is that he's smaller than my 6 year old kid. He's just not big or strong enough in my view.....
Anyway, bottom line is that all the provincial coaches should be giving the younger FHs more gametime when they can. Sometimes this doesn't happen often but there's definitely been occasions this season when Hickey and co. could have been given a little more time on the pitch.[/quote]
Couldn't agree more. This time last year we were relishing the introduction in 05/06 of a few new Leinster heads at OH for CL games at least.
So far, the brightest prospect Hickey has come on at wing and OC, rarely started in the CL and never at OH (if memory serves). I can understand if Cheika/Knox don't rate a player, but he's obviously good enough to make the squad, so why not at OH? Where was the PAG when Hepworth was bought?
