Connacht Thread 12-13

[ceemec]

You're right, Jim. It wasn't meant to be a hyper critical post on Elwood, more a comment on how history will remember the last two coaches. Elwood's tenure will be marked as a success and he will go down as a legend within Connacht circles. Bradley is generally considered quite the opposite despite achieving very, very similar results. In his last ACC campaign, Bradley beat Worcester and Montpellier home and away and Bourgoin in a QF before losing by a single score to Toulon in 2010. That was a pretty impressive achievement but it's largely washed over.

I wasn't necessarily discounting the Italian results, more analysing the results of the two coaches based on the teams they both faced.

I'm neither a big fan of Bradley nor a big critic of Elwood. I just reckon it's interesting that one guy who is dyed in the wool Connacht and one guy who was an outsider known for having pull within the IRFU are viewed entirely differently. I think public image and the rising profile of Connacht has played a big part in it all.

[porterbelly]

I'll say what will probably prove to be unpopular and find it interesting the way in which history will remember Eric Elwood as Connacht head coach. I'll play devil's advocate.

Connacht have finished on 38 points for the season. Take the 14 points they earned against Italian sides this season and they earned 24 points against the 9 original ML sides. In Bradley's last season, Connacht achieved 26 points against the same 9 sides and is remembered without any affection. People rightly point out that Elwood has been great for development. But Bradley gave Griffin, TOH and McKeon their debuts. He brought through Andrew Browne as a kid, Loughney as a 20 year old prop, John Muldoon as a 21 year old and signed multiple promising players from other provinces.

So, how successful has the tenure of Elwood been? Is the only real difference the qualification for HEC rugby via other provinces which allowed Connacht to grow as a brand and increase their profile?

Bradley didn't give Griff and McKeon their debuts, Elwood did.

[king]

Commenting on ceemacs points.

The difference between how Bradley's tenure and Elwood's is perceived by Connacht fans is not purely a results based one.

Out west we feel less unequal than we used to, we have a nice ground taking shape, a pro games boatd, a good pr effort, decent crowds, some good signings and more money to spend on players. The feel good factor has dramatically increased over the last 3 years. Most fans give us a chance every week regardless of opposition instead of writting off 70% of games as hidings.

The head coach is no longer perceived as being a nepotistic appointment of the body that wants to ensure or continuence as the runt of the litter (thats a little harsh on brads but still accurate as a perception) but rather one that will strive to close the gap on the others.

We no longer have games that are ok to lose, we no longer have home matches in front of 700 or 800 hardy few. Eric henifits from all of that and by comparison the previous incumbent suffers.

I think at times Bradley is hard done by, he did ok at Connacht but stayed too long, he never moved to Galway leaving the feeling that it was all just temporary and of course he didn't have over a decade of playing for Connacht to display his commitment.

Bottom line Bradley presided over a period in Connacht that fairly closely mirrored what had gone before while Eric's tenure has given us a glimpse of the possibilities that lie ahead.

[simonokeeffe]

pro12 youtube report on Zebre v Munster said Sinoti Sinoti IS going to Connacht

[tackle-bag]

pro12 youtube report on Zebre v Munster said Sinoti Sinoti IS going to Connacht

That's not a good signing. He's just another generic pacific island winger; powerful and quick for his size with a fairly average skill-set. I recall seeing him badly exposed in defence a few times during his brief stint at Toulon. He didn't make it in France and he hasn't exactly set the world on fire in Italy either (10 tries for Aironi & Zebre in around 50 starts). He has played for Samoa so he takes a NIQ slot and I don't think he has much professional experience in any position other than wing.

[simonokeeffe]

pro12 youtube report on Zebre v Munster said Sinoti Sinoti IS going to Connacht

That's not a good signing. He's just another generic pacific island winger; powerful and quick for his size with a fairly average skill-set. I recall seeing him badly exposed in defence a few times during his brief stint at Toulon. He didn't make it in France and he hasn't exactly set the world on fire in Italy either (10 tries for Aironi & Zebre in around 50 starts). He has played for Samoa so he takes a NIQ slot and I don't think he has much professional experience in any position other than wing.

know Vainikolo was a loss but they could do better, although they have to compete with Munster for our excess players now

Think Connacht have different/more lax NIQ rules though
Imagine Carr and Poolman with Duffy in reserve their first choice wingers next season

[ceemec]

Bradley didn't give Griff and McKeon their debuts, Elwood did.

Pro12 website says they made their debuts in 2009/10 season under Bradley.

[ceemec]

Commenting on ceemacs points.

The difference between how Bradley's tenure and Elwood's is perceived by Connacht fans is not purely a results based one.

Out west we feel less unequal than we used to, we have a nice ground taking shape, a pro games boatd, a good pr effort, decent crowds, some good signings and more money to spend on players. The feel good factor has dramatically increased over the last 3 years. Most fans give us a chance every week regardless of opposition instead of writting off 70% of games as hidings.

The head coach is no longer perceived as being a nepotistic appointment of the body that wants to ensure or continuence as the runt of the litter (thats a little harsh on brads but still accurate as a perception) but rather one that will strive to close the gap on the others.

We no longer have games that are ok to lose, we no longer have home matches in front of 700 or 800 hardy few. Eric henifits from all of that and by comparison the previous incumbent suffers.

I think at times Bradley is hard done by, he did ok at Connacht but stayed too long, he never moved to Galway leaving the feeling that it was all just temporary and of course he didn't have over a decade of playing for Connacht to display his commitment.

Bottom line Bradley presided over a period in Connacht that fairly closely mirrored what had gone before while Eric's tenure has given us a glimpse of the possibilities that lie ahead.

Fair arguments, King. But majority of things mentioned are behind the scenes, off the field developments i.e. crowds,signings etc. Is this not more down to the new CEO? The results on the field haven't changed that much.

[ronk]

I'll say what will probably prove to be unpopular and find it interesting the way in which history will remember Eric Elwood as Connacht head coach. I'll play devil's advocate.

Connacht have finished on 38 points for the season. Take the 14 points they earned against Italian sides this season and they earned 24 points against the 9 original ML sides. In Bradley's last season, Connacht achieved 26 points against the same 9 sides and is remembered without any affection. People rightly point out that Elwood has been great for development. But Bradley gave Griffin, TOH and McKeon their debuts. He brought through Andrew Browne as a kid, Loughney as a 20 year old prop, John Muldoon as a 21 year old and signed multiple promising players from other provinces.

So, how successful has the tenure of Elwood been? Is the only real difference the qualification for HEC rugby via other provinces which allowed Connacht to grow as a brand and increase their profile?

Elwood was effectively coaching them in the 09-10 season, especially at the end of it. He deserves (some of the) credit for their improvement during his tenure as assistant coach, particularly due to the reasons for their improvement.

Connacht finished on 26 points, but in their last 8 games, they picked up 16 of them. They also weren't trying too hard for their last 2 games when their challenge to pass Ulster was up.

Elwood was a notorious hard worker in training during his playing days. He had a phenomenal work ethic. He brought that to the team, he also stopped catering to the blazers---win interpros but don't bother the rest of the time. Instead he catered for the support---win home matches. Connacht's home form was good in 09-10: won 5 and drew 1 out of 9, plus 2 losing bonus points. It was something to offer fans who showed up at the Sportsground, Connacht gave something back to the fans who paid in.

Bradley was given resources, he tended to waste them. Elwood did well as U20s coach. He used his experience with the Ireland U20s to help recuit. The strategy was to pick up good young players and get them working so they'd be ambitious. This was the rock on which their present success was built and it allowed them to start recruiting better players again. Connacht had a long term plan that Elwood understood perfectly and he worked within his constraints.

Players like Cronin and Keatley leaving wasn't even all bad news. They opened the door for more young players to go there: Connacht wasn't a one way trip. Once the politics was out of the way the IRFU could focus on building, they were much happier taking direct control than leaving alickadoos do their thing badly.

Connacht used to be a team that were paid by the IRFU to provide opposition. It was okay for them to continuously lose money because of what playing Connacht was worth to Leinster, Munster, Ulster and the other Celtic Unions. That happens regularly in high school American Football. Now the IRFU are actively building them, they're going somewhere and they're getting value out of it.

It's a huge measure of their stature that they were able to get a big name coach. Sure there was a blip over getting sacked from the Blues, but a hugely experienced young coach coming to Connacht with a more impressive CV than Schmidt, Anscombe or Penney.

Connacht improved as Elwood became more influential within the setup; Bradley has some highlights from Edinburgh, but he was also badly exposed.

[jezzer]

I'll say what will probably prove to be unpopular and find it interesting the way in which history will remember Eric Elwood as Connacht head coach. I'll play devil's advocate.

Connacht have finished on 38 points for the season. Take the 14 points they earned against Italian sides this season and they earned 24 points against the 9 original ML sides. In Bradley's last season, Connacht achieved 26 points against the same 9 sides and is remembered without any affection. People rightly point out that Elwood has been great for development. But Bradley gave Griffin, TOH and McKeon their debuts. He brought through Andrew Browne as a kid, Loughney as a 20 year old prop, John Muldoon as a 21 year old and signed multiple promising players from other provinces.

So, how successful has the tenure of Elwood been? Is the only real difference the qualification for HEC rugby via other provinces which allowed Connacht to grow as a brand and increase their profile?

Elwood was effectively coaching them in the 09-10 season, especially at the end of it. He deserves (some of the) credit for their improvement during his tenure as assistant coach, particularly due to the reasons for their improvement.

Connacht finished on 26 points, but in their last 8 games, they picked up 16 of them. They also weren't trying too hard for their last 2 games when their challenge to pass Ulster was up.

Elwood was a notorious hard worker in training during his playing days. He had a phenomenal work ethic. He brought that to the team, he also stopped catering to the blazers---win interpros but don't bother the rest of the time. Instead he catered for the support---win home matches. Connacht's home form was good in 09-10: won 5 and drew 1 out of 9, plus 2 losing bonus points. It was something to offer fans who showed up at the Sportsground, Connacht gave something back to the fans who paid in.

Bradley was given resources, he tended to waste them. Elwood did well as U20s coach. He used his experience with the Ireland U20s to help recuit. The strategy was to pick up good young players and get them working so they'd be ambitious. This was the rock on which their present success was built and it allowed them to start recruiting better players again. Connacht had a long term plan that Elwood understood perfectly and he worked within his constraints.

Players like Cronin and Keatley leaving wasn't even all bad news. They opened the door for more young players to go there: Connacht wasn't a one way trip. Once the politics was out of the way the IRFU could focus on building, they were much happier taking direct control than leaving alickadoos do their thing badly.

Connacht used to be a team that were paid by the IRFU to provide opposition. It was okay for them to continuously lose money because of what playing Connacht was worth to Leinster, Munster, Ulster and the other Celtic Unions. That happens regularly in high school American Football. Now the IRFU are actively building them, they're going somewhere and they're getting value out of it.

It's a huge measure of their stature that they were able to get a big name coach. Sure there was a blip over getting sacked from the Blues, but a hugely experienced young coach coming to Connacht with a more impressive CV than Schmidt, Anscombe or Penney.

Connacht improved as Elwood became more influential within the setup; Bradley has some highlights from Edinburgh, but he was also badly exposed.

Great post, Ronk. I agree with you totally.

I do believe Connacht under Elwood (and his coaching staff) hit their ceiling last season. We won't know for a while if Lam is the guy to take them to the next level, but it's an appointment that speaks to the progress Connacht have had under Elwood that he even considered the job.

Watching "The West's Awake" you could feel the work ethic and passion for the club seeping out of Elwood and that's bound to get the players' buy-in. But, for a professional sports coach, the passion dial was turned up way too high, he played the "nobody rates us, we don't care" card too much, some of the match prep speeches were bordering on defeatist. They're on a plateau and would stay there with Eric as coach, imo.

Connacht need to build on the Elwood foundation now. They need to get technically better. They need coaches to unlock skills and game management potential within the individual players and the team. They need to stop relying on the "better when we're bitter" type approach. They need to stop asking themselves "why can't we beat these guys, just because we're an impoverished outfit on the periphery of Europe that nobody believes in". They have a good squad now. They have a local support base who have shown they'll go to games if the team is competitive.

For that to all happen, the best coach Connacht have had has to go. I hope they keep him around the club, maybe not in a Gaillimh way that undermines the new coaches, or in a Davy Humphries way (is there such a thing as a slightly megalomaniac person??!!). But in a kind of Michael D capacity. That sounds terrible....!

[ceemec]

Fair points, folks. I think Elwood, overall, has had a better tenure marked by his side being more competitive overall even if the results haven't been much different in terms of wins/losses. The days of rolling over and losing by 40 points are few and far between but, as Jezzer says, he has brought them as far as he can.

Ronk, I would disagree however on distinguishing between the two of them by saying Bradley squandered resources provided as I reckon they're both guilty of that. Going through the Connacht side, a large number of their first choice side were brought in under Bradley: Naoupu, Loughney, McCarthy, Browne and Muldoon in their pack, for example. Elwood had as much funding and assistance and probably more than Bradley had. Irish rugby enjoyed its most successful period domestically during Elwood's tenure and Connacht benefited from that. They saw more funding and the NIQ rules being altered for their benefit also. But that's not to say that the money was put to particularly good use on plenty of occasions. People like Reynecke, Jarvis and Vainikolo were signed by Elwood and are all departing this summer to little fanfare having failed to do much. He was given money to re-sign Naoupu (originally a Bradley signing) and bring in S15 players like Poolman and White (better use of his money). He brought in Ah You also who has been awful.

His strength was bringing in indigenous talent that he was familiar with and getting them to play with some pride and intensity which looked to be dwindling under Bradley. He has moved them from whipping boys to nearly men where they don't take it lying down anymore. There are still issues there though. They still perform with far more intensity when the big occasion arrives or the cameras are there and lose games they should win (defeats at home to Cardiff, Scarlets, Edinburgh this season but manage to hockey Biarritz and Leinster).

Overall, I'd say they've moved on and developed undoubtedly but it's difficult to establish exactly how much of that has been down to Elwood and how much has been down to the additional money and profile Connacht have received via the HEC, therefore becoming a more attractive destination for players.

[ronk]

Connacht's improvement trajectory brought them to a place where you expected that they'd fancy a go at the Heineken Cup, not qualifying from their group or anything, but not whipping boys either. They held up their end.

Elwood generally had better resources than Bradley, so more was expected, but he also delivered something that was worth investing in. There were good signings and bad ones. Someone was able to persuade the IRFU to send Nathan White west. Here's someone who could become an absolutely key member of the Ireland team in a problem position, we can't afford to misuse him. They showed faith in the setup. Dan Parks was another big signing in an area where they had been having problems. That sort of experience allowed them to hold together a young clique of players. Harris-Wright, Kearney, Buckley, McKeon, Marmion, McSharry, Henshaw, O'Halloran.

Moving on players shows that Connacht are raising the bar, not every signing has to soar.

[abcd]

Bradley was a disaster at Connacht and was found out at Edinburgh also. He made some good signings mixed with many awful signings. In my opinion by not leaving after his first two relatively successful seasons he set Connacht back a long way. He outstayed his welcome and turned the team into a running joke with 50/60/70 point hammerings etc. He didn't have as much resources as was needed to push the team forward but a lot of resources were wasted on awful players that could have been put into improving the support structure of the side. Tough act to balance but Bradley chose how he wanted to use the resources at his disposal and failed spectacularly. In fairness imo Connacht Rugby and the IRFU as a whole weren't focused enough on getting results at Connacht and Bradley was let run the province further and further into the ground.

His last season has to be taken in context. Yes it wasn't as bad a season but it only started to improve after he announced he was leaving, prior to that the team shipped 62 points in Edinburgh and capitulated to a bp home defeat to an extremely average Ulster side.

At Edinburgh he did quite well in the HC in his first season but all the breaks went his way in that campaign and they were a disaster in the league, but fair play to him. However, when the SRU backed him with a reported £1m extra funds to bring players in he wasted it and the team was a running joke. Edinburgh were delighted to see the back of him.

[ronk]

Connacht sign Jake Heenan, the captain of the NZ U20s last summer and a 20 year old openside.

Great news for them and further signs that Lam might be really useful.

[Benji]

Connacht sign Jake Heenan, the captain of the NZ U20s last summer and a 20 year old openside.

Great news for them and further signs that Lam might be really useful.

Great signing. One or two more please and we will be sorted after Friday night.

[Peg Leg]

Connacht sign Jake Heenan, the captain of the NZ U20s last summer and a 20 year old openside.

Great news for them and further signs that Lam might be really useful.

Great signing. One or two more please and we will be sorted after Friday night.

3 hail mocker gods missus, for your penance!

[simonokeeffe]

Connacht sign Jake Heenan, the captain of the NZ U20s last summer and a 20 year old openside.

Great news for them and further signs that Lam might be really useful.

Great signing. One or two more please and we will be sorted after Friday night.

3 hail mocker gods missus, for your penance!

anyone any clue if Maoiri NZ's designated 2nd side last year when Heenan played as if they were then he's a project player?

[Sea_point]

Connacht sign Jake Heenan, the captain of the NZ U20s last summer and a 20 year old openside.

anyone any clue if Maoiri NZ's designated 2nd side last year when Heenan played as if they were then he's a project player?

The only NZ teams to disqualify you from playing for another country.....
AB's
Junior AB's
NZ Sevens


Not so for the Baby Blacks (U20's)

Men’s And Women’s Next Senior National Representative Teams 2013

Next Senior National Representative Team

Note: In accordance with IRB Regulation 8 the current listing of Member Unions' Men’s and Women’s Next Senior National Representative Teams is available here as provided by the respective Unions to the IRB. The list of previous years' Tier One and Tier Two Men’s Next Senior National Representative Teams can also be found here.

A Union is entitled to notify the IRB no more than once per calendar year of a change to its next senior National Representative Team provided that in doing so it shall take account of any Matches such team may be scheduled to play and shall advise the Union of any senior or next senior National Representative Team it is scheduled to play reasonably in advance of such Match. The identity of a Union’s next senior National Representative Team can be verified with the Union concerned and/or the IRB.

[simonokeeffe]

nice one seapoint, thanks
struggled to find a list like that

so Heenan is a project

as it stands Connacht's other overseas players for next season

Ethienne Reynecke IQ in one more season
Rodney Ah You IQ in October
Nathan White IQ in one more season

George Naoupu (NZ 7s)
Dan Parks (Scotland)
Craig Clarke (JABs)
Aly Muldowney (Scotland A)
Sinoti Sinoti (Samoa)

[porterbelly]

nice one seapoint, thanks
struggled to find a list like that

so Heenan is a project

as it stands Connacht's other overseas players for next season

Ethienne Reynecke IQ in one more season
Rodney Ah You IQ in October
Nathan White IQ in one more season

George Naoupu (NZ 7s)
Dan Parks (Scotland)
Craig Clarke (JABs)
Aly Muldowney (Scotland A)
Sinoti Sinoti (Samoa)

Muldowney had an Irish grandparent so he's IQ

Reyneke is leaving

Projects are: Poolman, White and Heenan

NIQ are: Parks, Clarke, Sinoti (if he signs), Naoupu,

Ah You is deemed IQ because he'll have residency in January