Italy in the Pro-12

[BlueBlue]

It’s not widely published but Italian participation in the Pro12 is on a 4 year trial, this coming season being the last of that trial. Currently the Italians pay 3m per year to the Pro12 for the privilege of taking part, this is divided between the 4 Unions. The Italians are not at all happy about paying this 3m a year. From the Italian point of view, and indeed the Unions of Scotland, Wales and Ireland the decision to continue with Italy in the Pro-12 will move from trial to full membership, in that situation the Italians become equal members and therefore, in their minds would not pay 3m a year to participate. The payment of 3m is on the basis that the Italians bring nothing to the table in terms of money, TV or sponsorship. In Italy the running of their 2 pro teams takes up a very large portion of the Italian unions budget, this 3m being part of it.

As fans the opportunity to travel to Italy to see games is appealing, and both teams have added an extra bit of spice and curiosity, or novelty. Aironi/Zebre however have adding nothing in competitiveness, Treviso on the other hand have done quite well are definitely on an upwards curve. I think we would all agree that Italian participation is good for 6N rugby, and therefore European rugby as well as world rugby. Therefore their continued participation in the Pro12 is a good thing, but it’s hard to see what they bring to the purely financial side, we know that Italy has a big population but is rugby big enough in Italy for it to translate into money for the pro 12 through TV or sponsorship. For example Rabo sponsorship of the Pro-12 is based on their interest in a single market, which is Ireland. Rabo pulling out a year early is due to the Pro-12 operating in 4 markets and therefore the price tag for Rabo is too large and does not reflect their strategic interest, they do not sell banking in Wales, Scotland or Italy, only Ireland. Would a company with only interests in Italy sponsor the Pro-12 ? I doubt it.

Also the continuing pressure from the PRL (English Clubs) to have the top 6 teams in each league qualify , may mean that the position of the Italians in the Pro12 is under treat, as a compromise could be the top 6 teams from a Pro 10 with the Italian teams going back into their own league and competing in the Amlin. Perhaps not fair, but perhaps it is also not fair that Zebre qualify to Europe’s top tier from the bottom of the Pro12 each year.

[BlueBlue]

Pro12 is enjoying incredible growth.

Speaking at the new season’s launch in Belfast yesterday, Irvine said the tournament is in an extremely healthy state.

“Ulster had an incredible rise of almost 25% in crowd numbers and Cardiff nearly 23% while even in Scotland, the attendances were rising, with Glasgow showing a 13% rise,” said Irvine, the former Scottish and Lions full-back. “The TV audiences are now up to 12.7 million and they saw exciting open rugby. Last season we had 526 tries, which is almost four per game. Games have to be a spectacle or else it is no fun to play or watch.

“We are proud of our competition. It is a breeding ground for developing young players and the representation of the RaboDirect Pro12 players on the Lions Tour to Australia was the highest, with 24 of the original 37coming from the Celtic regions. We are very fortunate we can embrace four different countries and four different cultures.

“The (English) Premiership cannot offer that and compared to all other competitions we have a greater proportion of international players. But we must also remember that one of our main objections is to bring on the young talent. It is important we develop and look after these players. The young players are coming through to the teams not only want to play in this competition but they also want to take the next step up. You only have to look at the Italian teams and the level of competition they now provide.”

[rooster]

As far as sponsorship goes there are a lot more companies than you might think with interests in all countries, Rabo Banking only actually covered ROI as none up here.
Heineken, Diagio, and Fiat are probably the most well known, then there are others you don't immediately think of like Kingspan for example.
Also now that Sky are in the wings on tv coverage there is a possible tv deal there.
The Italians do bring a bit of extra excitement to the league and importantly also a couple of extra home matches, 10 sides are not enough to cover costs of running a pro side and attracting players and our competitiveness in HEC or whatever replaces it would also be reduced.

[simonokeeffe]

surely 2 extra home gates a year and TV rights for 2 extra games brings something

[BlueBlue]

As far as sponsorship goes there are a lot more companies than you might think with interests in all countries, Rabo Banking only actually covered ROI as none up here.
Heineken, Diagio, and Fiat are probably the most well known, then there are others you don't immediately think of like Kingspan for example.
Also now that Sky are in the wings on tv coverage there is a possible tv deal there.
The Italians do bring a bit of extra excitement to the league and importantly also a couple of extra home matches, 10 sides are not enough to cover costs of running a pro side and attracting players and our competitiveness in HEC or whatever replaces it would also be reduced.

Sky has signed up the Pro 12 from the 14/15 seasion for 4 or 5 years.

[BlueBlue]

surely 2 extra home gates a year and TV rights for 2 extra games brings something

It does but, I'd be hoping for more long term. What if Fiat sponsered the league for example.

[simonokeeffe]

surely 2 extra home gates a year and TV rights for 2 extra games brings something

It does but, I'd be hoping for more long term. What if Fiat sponsered the league for example.

after they closed their factory here...

[Dave Cahill]

They've been fine on the pitch, Treviso have performed as expected, and Aironi/Zebre have been improving.

Off the pitch though... pretty shambolic

[johng]

Alfa Romeo would be a great sponsor/metaphor for the league.

Beautiful to look at, Great to drive. Unreliable as fock!

[BlueBlue]

Alfa Romeo would be a great sponsor/metaphor for the league.

Beautiful to look at, Great to drive. Unreliable as fock!

Yes a good metaphor for the league, as the leauges performance standard is always questioned, however its standards are quite high just like an Alfa Romeo. I'm on my 3rd Alfa and all have been just fine.

[rooster]

Benetton themselves could sponsor the league though I doubt they would be permitted as also basically owning one of the sides in it.
Treviso will give most sides a few scares and will hover around mid table as for Zebre they were very close in a lot of matches last season and I would hope they get a few wins this year.

[BlueBlue]

Benetton themselves could sponsor the league though I doubt they would be permitted as also basically owning one of the sides in it.
Treviso will give most sides a few scares and will hover around mid table as for Zebre they were very close in a lot of matches last season and I would hope they get a few wins this year.

I hope also, but against teams other than Leinster

[IanD]

Someone mentioned a tv deal with Sky - I think Sky could also sponsor the PRO12. They have stations in the 4 regions and having the likes of S4C RTE and BBC NI advertising the SKY PRO 12 may appeal to them.

I think the Sky Sports PRO 12 would sound good too.

[Dave Cahill]

Someone mentioned a tv deal with Sky - I think Sky could also sponsor the PRO12. They have stations in the 4 regions and having the likes of S4C RTE and BBC NI advertising the SKY PRO 12 may appeal to them.

I think the Sky Sports PRO 12 would sound good too.

And if anything were to ensure that the current situation where there is no terrestrial deal in place beyond this season were to remain the case, that would be it.

[IanD]

Someone mentioned a tv deal with Sky - I think Sky could also sponsor the PRO12. They have stations in the 4 regions and having the likes of S4C RTE and BBC NI advertising the SKY PRO 12 may appeal to them.

I think the Sky Sports PRO 12 would sound good too.

And if anything were to ensure that the current situation where there is no terrestrial deal in place beyond this season were to remain the case, that would be it.

Care to back this up? As this is idle speculation on my part you must have amazing contacts to make such a statement.

People mentioned possible sponsors who have business in Ireland Scotland Wales and Italy. Sky fulfill this criteria.
I would envision Sky using this as a cheap way to advertise their stations similar to BT sponsoring Glasgow and Edinburgh.

[Dave Cahill]

Care to back this up? As this is idle speculation on my part you must have amazing contacts to make such a statement.

People mentioned possible sponsors who have business in Ireland Scotland Wales and Italy. Sky fulfill this criteria.
I would envision Sky using this as a cheap way to advertise their stations similar to BT sponsoring Glasgow and Edinburgh.

You don't need contacts, its just how the business works.

There is no TV deal apart from skys the year after this - not yet at least, the terrestrials are already pissed off with the Pro12 over the Sky deal, its pretty standard business practice not to give your rivals time on your air - Sky don't take advertising from BT sport for example and Rabo pulled out of their sponsorship of the league at least in part because of the amount of BOI real estate on view now (and BOI are very aggressive in protecting their 'ownership' of the teams they sponsor).

[IanD]

Care to back this up? As this is idle speculation on my part you must have amazing contacts to make such a statement.

People mentioned possible sponsors who have business in Ireland Scotland Wales and Italy. Sky fulfill this criteria.
I would envision Sky using this as a cheap way to advertise their stations similar to BT sponsoring Glasgow and Edinburgh.

You don't need contacts, its just how the business works.

There is no TV deal apart from skys the year after this - not yet at least, the terrestrials are already pissed off with the Pro12 over the Sky deal, its pretty standard business practice not to give your rivals time on your air - Sky don't take advertising from BT sport for example and Rabo pulled out of their sponsorship of the league at least in part because of the amount of BOI real estate on view now (and BOI are very aggressive in protecting their 'ownership' of the teams they sponsor).

If the business works this way why have BT sponsored Edinburgh and Glasgow? Is it for the good of the game in Scotland or is it too get their logo on Sky? You might want to tell BT they are doing it wrong.

How do you know the terrestrials are annoyed over the Sky deal? Anything to back this up? Only thing I can find is

''A joint statement issued by BBC Northern Ireland, BBC ALBA and BBC Cymru Wales reads: “We have been in discussions with Celtic Rugby regarding the broadcasting rights for the Pro12 Competition since last year in the knowledge that the competition is seeking both free-to-air and pay TV broadcast partners.

“We were aware that Sky was going to make an announcement, but are not in a position to do so ourselves as negotiations with Celtic Rugby are ongoing.”

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... ow-3316079

If the terrestrials are really annoyed why have they continued talking since last year?

Sky sponsoring the league could be a better deal for them if the terrestrials do pull out as they will have the league for less money. Again I am speculating here but I cant see BBC Wales Alba and NI being that annoyed as they will still have their games on a Friday night Sky deal seems to be for Saturday games only. S4C show games on a saturday so may be miffed.

Sky and RTE are not exactly rivals. RTE have benefited for years by piggy backing on the Sky platform - if they were rivals surely RTE would pull away from Sky and go alone on Saorview.

Anyway kinda back on topic from memory Danone seem fairly big in Italy so again could be a potential sponsor. The Activia Pro 12 - Free yoghurts for everyone.

[Dave Cahill]

If the business works this way why have BT sponsored Edinburgh and Glasgow? Is it for the good of the game in Scotland or is it too get their logo on Sky?

Its to get their logo on Sky. That is the only reason why they are doing it - they admitted as much at the launch. They couldn't care less about Glasgow, Edinburgh or the game in Scotland, its simply ambush marketing. Sky refused to take their advertising, they complained to Ofcom who told them to do one, so this is what they came up with. It'll be interesting to see how Sky deal with it - I expect it to be nasty

[BlueBlue]

If the business works this way why have BT sponsored Edinburgh and Glasgow? Is it for the good of the game in Scotland or is it too get their logo on Sky?

Its to get their logo on Sky. That is the only reason why they are doing it - they admitted as much at the launch. They couldn't care less about Glasgow, Edinburgh or the game in Scotland, its simply ambush marketing. Sky refused to take their advertising, they complained to Ofcom who told them to do one, so this is what they came up with. It'll be interesting to see how Sky deal with it - I expect it to be nasty

It was very blatant that they did it to get the logo on sky, they pretty much declared that it was their intention to put one over on sky. It is nasty and it’s going to run and run.

[dropkick]

I think the Pro 12 is hoping that they'll benefit from Italian teams participation in the long term.

If the business works this way why have BT sponsored Edinburgh and Glasgow? Is it for the good of the game in Scotland or is it too get their logo on Sky?

Its to get their logo on Sky. That is the only reason why they are doing it - they admitted as much at the launch. They couldn't care less about Glasgow, Edinburgh or the game in Scotland, its simply ambush marketing. Sky refused to take their advertising, they complained to Ofcom who told them to do one, so this is what they came up with. It'll be interesting to see how Sky deal with it - I expect it to be nasty

Don't expect to see much of Glasgow and Edinburgh on Sky!