Italy in the Pro-12

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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

Post by meinster »

IanD wrote:How do you know the terrestrials are annoyed over the Sky deal? Anything to back this up?
Wouldn't you be, if you were RTÉ? They've being supporters of the league, and have always had a decent say in what they get to cover. Now a competitor has taken that spot, meaning they are now negotiating for reduced rights (and likely to be vastly reduced rights).

Anything to back it up? I have a couple of contacts in RTÉ, and I know DC has a lot closer ties. I take him at his word on matters RŦÉ. It's not like he's making an outrageous claim by any means.
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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

Post by rooster »

The talk is that Sky will show all sides during the year and have a spread of fixtures plus the restriction that if they show Leinster v Ulster they can't show the reverse fixture, same goes for all sides. BBC NI are still keen on the remaining matches up here as they are their best viewed sports production.
Overall can't see it making a huge difference to the other tv companies as with the exception of BBC NI I don't think any other broadcaster televised all its regions matches that were available.
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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

Post by mikerob »

The likes of BBC NI or BBC Alba will have paid peanuts for Pro12 rights in previous seasons so they really can have no complaints if Sky pays more and gets first choice of fixtures.

I believe the BBC regions sports budgets are pretty small and in the case of BBC NI, they need to spread that around so people don't complain about sports for themmuns getting too much coverage.

I think the value of the terrestrial broadcasters is more the audiences they bring rather than the money they pay for the rights.
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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

Post by tones »

Why should RTE be annoyed?...
They haven't supported the league form the start...they snubbed the rights which went to TG4 firstly and then Setanta took them (producing a far better product as well). RTE have had shared rights for the last number of years and publically demmean & sometimes ridicule the league through their commentators. This may make them get off their ar$es and employ annalysts who a) watch the games b) don't have a conflict of interest when awarding Man of the Match and c) have an interest in the league and its development.
I am glad its going to Sky, they're not perfect but a far sight better.

Also, the Sky deal isn't exclusive. So there will be matches on RTE/TGS/BBC Alba etc - just not as many.
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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

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tones wrote:Why should RTE be annoyed?...
They haven't supported the league form the start...they snubbed the rights which went to TG4 firstly and then Setanta took them (producing a far better product as well). RTE have had shared rights for the last number of years and publically demmean & sometimes ridicule the league through their commentators. This may make them get off their ar$es and employ annalysts who a) watch the games b) don't have a conflict of interest when awarding Man of the Match and c) have an interest in the league and its development.
I am glad its going to Sky, they're not perfect but a far sight better.

Also, the Sky deal isn't exclusive. So there will be matches on RTE/TGS/BBC Alba etc - just not as many.
Excellent post. Agree 100%.
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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

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tones wrote:Why should RTE be annoyed?...
They haven't supported the league form the start...they snubbed the rights which went to TG4 firstly and then Setanta took them (producing a far better product as well). RTE have had shared rights for the last number of years and publically demmean & sometimes ridicule the league through their commentators. This may make them get off their ar$es and employ annalysts who a) watch the games b) don't have a conflict of interest when awarding Man of the Match and c) have an interest in the league and its development.
I am glad its going to Sky, they're not perfect but a far sight better.

Also, the Sky deal isn't exclusive. So there will be matches on RTE/TGS/BBC Alba etc - just not as many.
As things stand there will be no matches on RTE/TGS/BBC Alba etc. No contract has been agreed between any terrestrial broadcaster and Celtic Rugby - that may change but its exceptionally unusual for a deal not to be in place 12 months out.
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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

Post by tones »

Dave Cahill wrote:
tones wrote:Why should RTE be annoyed?...
They haven't supported the league form the start...they snubbed the rights which went to TG4 firstly and then Setanta took them (producing a far better product as well). RTE have had shared rights for the last number of years and publically demmean & sometimes ridicule the league through their commentators. This may make them get off their ar$es and employ annalysts who a) watch the games b) don't have a conflict of interest when awarding Man of the Match and c) have an interest in the league and its development.
I am glad its going to Sky, they're not perfect but a far sight better.

Also, the Sky deal isn't exclusive. So there will be matches on RTE/TGS/BBC Alba etc - just not as many.
As things stand there will be no matches on RTE/TGS/BBC Alba etc. No contract has been agreed between any terrestrial broadcaster and Celtic Rugby - that may change but its exceptionally unusual for a deal not to be in place 12 months out.
Well then there will be alot of matches not covered as the deal with SKY is not exclusive rights.
Back to my main point though..
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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

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Probably waiting to see if there will be a heineken cup?
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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

Post by Dave Cahill »

tones wrote: Back to my main point though..
I'd broadly agree with it, their use pundits who are either wilfully ignorant of the league or the laws of the game, or those who are professionally compromised is extremely annoying. On the other hand, they have been steadily improving with the use of O'Shea and Horgan for example, they are in HD and they are beginning to utilise web streaming properly (this weekend is a good example of that). Is there any incentive to keep doing so though considering that if they sign up again they would be a second/third tier broadcaster?
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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

Post by tones »

Dave Cahill wrote:
tones wrote: Back to my main point though..
I'd broadly agree with it, their use pundits who are either wilfully ignorant of the league or the laws of the game, or those who are professionally compromised is extremely annoying. On the other hand, they have been steadily improving with the use of O'Shea and Horgan for example, they are in HD and they are beginning to utilise web streaming properly (this weekend is a good example of that). Is there any incentive to keep doing so though considering that if they sign up again they would be a second/third tier broadcaster?
Holy cr@p - Sept 2013 and they are introducing this??? What next...
Their service is reactionary at best. They snubbbed the league for how many years after its introduction. Surely if they had moved for this...along with having the HCup at the time, they would (being the national broadcaster) have all provincial and national rugby on air? But they dismissed it. If they have analysts who demean the league, the league organisers will take the view they're not too serious about it and will look at their options.
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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

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tones wrote:Why should RTE be annoyed?...
Aimed at me, I presume, so I'll answer.. Mainly because however half-assed (in your opinion) effort they did put in to the lageue coverage, it was mainly on terms that suited them, and terms they had a large say in. Sky changes all that. It'll almost definitely increase the value of the leauge (which might be a good thing for the sport, but not so for RTÉ).
tones wrote:They haven't supported the league form the start
They have. Now they mightn't have done it to the extent that you like, but you (as an avid supporter of a province/club and, by association, the sport) are not their target audience. You are part of that. Their public service remit covers all sorts of things. It is neither within the bounds of their commercial remit nor public service remit to cover every game. Now with a few small changes they could easily do a better job (and Sky will help nudge them along, as you say), but that has no bearing on the point of the Sky deal making RTÉ (and other terrestrials) not-so-pleased.

That RTÉ snubbed rights / Setanta were better .. I agree (again, nothing to do with the point). I don't know if that'll change because of the Sky deal, though, unfortunately. No broadcaster has a real interest in the development of the sport. They have only a commercial interest in increasing the popularity of the sport to enhance their own business. It's not RTÉ's (or Sky's) job to improve the league.
tones wrote:I am glad its going to Sky, they're not perfect but a far sight better.
I'm not, it means I'll see less matches. They do a much better production, and that will hopefully increase the profile of the league, but I'll see less of it as a result. I'm more than prepared to see how it goes (for the league).
tones wrote:Also, the Sky deal isn't exclusive. So there will be matches on RTE/TGS/BBC Alba etc - just not as many.
Yup, that's been reasonably clear from the start. Again, the point was that RTÉ now have much less a say in what matches they'll get to show, and when they get to show them. That'll no doubt make them angry. Angry might be too strong a word, but certainly there are people in RTÉ who are very much less than impressed with this change.

The ideal, for me, at least, would be Sky to get the cream of the crop (and pay more for it), by dictating fixtures and getting exclusitivity on live scheduling. If they don't want to cover a game live, then the appropriate terrestrial gets 2nd dibs. All broadcasters get delayed coverage rights, as long as they also do a weekly round up / highlights package. That'd be a middle ground to the money of Sky versus the exposure of FTA, with a mandatory highlights programme to sweeten the pot (from the league's point of view). Then if one route (premium or FTA) clearly wins out, then off down that road we go.

RTÉ would be angry with this move, though!
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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

Post by meinster »

Dupe
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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

Post by tones »

meinster wrote:
tones wrote:Why should RTE be annoyed?...
Aimed at me, I presume, so I'll answer.. Mainly because however half-assed (in your opinion) effort they did put in to the lageue coverage, it was mainly on terms that suited them, and terms they had a large say in. Sky changes all that. It'll almost definitely increase the value of the leauge (which might be a good thing for the sport, but not so for RTÉ).
tones wrote:They haven't supported the league form the start
They have. Now they mightn't have done it to the extent that you like, but you (as an avid supporter of a province/club and, by association, the sport) are not their target audience. You are part of that. Their public service remit covers all sorts of things. It is neither within the bounds of their commercial remit nor public service remit to cover every game. Now with a few small changes they could easily do a better job (and Sky will help nudge them along, as you say), but that has no bearing on the point of the Sky deal making RTÉ (and other terrestrials) not-so-pleased.

That RTÉ snubbed rights / Setanta were better .. I agree (again, nothing to do with the point). I don't know if that'll change because of the Sky deal, though, unfortunately. No broadcaster has a real interest in the development of the sport. They have only a commercial interest in increasing the popularity of the sport to enhance their own business. It's not RTÉ's (or Sky's) job to improve the league.
tones wrote:I am glad its going to Sky, they're not perfect but a far sight better.
I'm not, it means I'll see less matches. They do a much better production, and that will hopefully increase the profile of the league, but I'll see less of it as a result. I'm more than prepared to see how it goes (for the league).
tones wrote:Also, the Sky deal isn't exclusive. So there will be matches on RTE/TGS/BBC Alba etc - just not as many.
Yup, that's been reasonably clear from the start. Again, the point was that RTÉ now have much less a say in what matches they'll get to show, and when they get to show them. That'll no doubt make them angry. Angry might be too strong a word, but certainly there are people in RTÉ who are very much less than impressed with this change.

The ideal, for me, at least, would be Sky to get the cream of the crop (and pay more for it), by dictating fixtures and getting exclusitivity on live scheduling. If they don't want to cover a game live, then the appropriate terrestrial gets 2nd dibs. All broadcasters get delayed coverage rights, as long as they also do a weekly round up / highlights package. That'd be a middle ground to the money of Sky versus the exposure of FTA, with a mandatory highlights programme to sweeten the pot (from the league's point of view). Then if one route (premium or FTA) clearly wins out, then off down that road we go.

RTÉ would be angry with this move, though!
I am correct on the bolded bit. When the Celtic League was lauched, did RTE bid for it? Or was it allowed to go to TG4?
Also, a lot of people have the same opinion about RTE's "service". As I said, if you were running the league and your main broadcastter in the main country used "analysts" who regulary demean the league when commentating....you'd be a bit miffed.
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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

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tones wrote:I am correct on the bolded bit. When the Celtic League was lauched, did RTE bid for it? Or was it allowed to go to TG4?
Also, a lot of people have the same opinion about RTE's "service". As I said, if you were running the league and your main broadcastter in the main country used "analysts" who regulary demean the league when commentating....you'd be a bit miffed.
Indeed. Hard to blame them for that when even the teams weren't taking it very seriously back then. From the league's point of view, the Sky deal looks to be great (assuming the terrestrials don't all pull out in protest). Of course if no terrestrial does sign up, then this move mighn't be so great (it would be very interesting to see the effects of a Sky-only deal on revenue and attendance). They're still negotiating, at least, which is a positive.

Anyhoo, agree with your sentiment, but none of that changes the fact that RTÉ will feel miffed themselves Whether they had a part to play in that control being taken away from themselves is debatable (I'd imagine CL can't have been too happy about RTÉ's effort thus far, with TG4 not far behind them).
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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

Post by Alternative Ulster »

Pretty happy that EVERY SINGLE LEINSTER GAME is on telly. Only 3 of them not in English too.

Http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/teams/le ... xtures.php
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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

Post by simonokeeffe »

Sky use Frankie Sheehan enough too
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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

Post by Fireworks »

meinster wrote:
tones wrote:I am correct on the bolded bit. When the Celtic League was lauched, did RTE bid for it? Or was it allowed to go to TG4?
Also, a lot of people have the same opinion about RTE's "service". As I said, if you were running the league and your main broadcastter in the main country used "analysts" who regulary demean the league when commentating....you'd be a bit miffed.
Indeed. Hard to blame them for that when even the teams weren't taking it very seriously back then. From the league's point of view, the Sky deal looks to be great (assuming the terrestrials don't all pull out in protest). Of course if no terrestrial does sign up, then this move mighn't be so great (it would be very interesting to see the effects of a Sky-only deal on revenue and attendance). They're still negotiating, at least, which is a positive.

Anyhoo, agree with your sentiment, but none of that changes the fact that RTÉ will feel miffed themselves Whether they had a part to play in that control being taken away from themselves is debatable (I'd imagine CL can't have been too happy about RTÉ's effort thus far, with TG4 not far behind them).
Let them be miffed. They have a tough mandate but I think they fail on this front.

The point about their analysts not pushing the league is well made. Even if it is cr@p you need to promote it if you expect viewing figures to grow which attracts advertisers. Note the over hype machine of Sky. A game of tiddlewinks would be billed as the clash of the titans if it would help to get viewers on board.

If RTE learned from this they would get a return. The analysts should be free to express the views within some strict guidelines.
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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

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Fireworks wrote:The analysts should be free to express the views within some strict guidelines.
A single guideline of not being George Hook would be a start.
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Re: Italy in the Pro-12

Post by BlueBlue »

Avenger wrote:
tones wrote:Why should RTE be annoyed?...
They haven't supported the league form the start...they snubbed the rights which went to TG4 firstly and then Setanta took them (producing a far better product as well). RTE have had shared rights for the last number of years and publically demmean & sometimes ridicule the league through their commentators. This may make them get off their ar$es and employ annalysts who a) watch the games b) don't have a conflict of interest when awarding Man of the Match and c) have an interest in the league and its development.
I am glad its going to Sky, they're not perfect but a far sight better.

Also, the Sky deal isn't exclusive. So there will be matches on RTE/TGS/BBC Alba etc - just not as many.
Excellent post. Agree 100%.
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