Hurley for the 12 shirt.

[Oldschool]

Given the shortage of home grown 12s in the Munster set up I thought it perhaps opportune to suggest that cometh the hour cometh the man.
I give you Denis Hurley.
This is not a wind up as most of you will be aware that I have championed Denis's elevation to the lofty position of inside centre on the Munster team for quite some time.
However given my obvious bias I would put it to others to argue the merits or otherwise of Denis's skills set and its' suitability for the 12 position.
I personally feel he would have been a contender for the Ireland job at 12 had he played there sooner.

[johng]

Ya just wouldn't let it lie

[simonokeeffe]

Until hes covered that position in an AIL final I dont give it tremjus validity

[LeRouxIsPHat]

He can't pass, can't really kick, doesn't run good lines...and is 30 in July. There's literally nothing to suggest he'd be useful there except for his size and they already have Dineen and Downey for those roles. It's not like Penney has actually looked for much hard and straight running when he has picked those guys anyway.

[rookie]

It's not that new! He did play at 12 for Ireland at U20 level.

[offshorerules]

I thought Dineen looked handy enough at 12 last time I saw him there. Give youth a chance I say. Nothing against Hurley but he has hardly ever been stellar.

[Golf Man]

He can't pass, can't really kick, doesn't run good lines...and is 30 in July. There's literally nothing to suggest he'd be useful there except for his size and they already have Dineen and Downey for those roles. It's not like Penney has actually looked for much hard and straight running when he has picked those guys anyway.

You must not be too familiar with Hurleys play at all - no issues with passing, excellent offloading, he is a decent kicker, and runs decent lines (getting into position for those offloads). He is good defender but has serious issues with pace, going fowrard and particularly when faced with pace in defence. He is actually a very good intelligent footballer, but has never and will never be top level. I don't see this happening at this stage - but it makes far more sense to try him there than on teh wing - his pace is really exposed there

[LeRouxIsPHat]

He can't pass, can't really kick, doesn't run good lines...and is 30 in July. There's literally nothing to suggest he'd be useful there except for his size and they already have Dineen and Downey for those roles. It's not like Penney has actually looked for much hard and straight running when he has picked those guys anyway.

You must not be too familiar with Hurleys play at all - no issues with passing, excellent offloading, he is a decent kicker, and runs decent lines (getting into position for those offloads). He is good defender but has serious issues with pace, going fowrard and particularly when faced with pace in defence. He is actually a very good intelligent footballer, but has never and will never be top level. I don't see this happening at this stage - but it makes far more sense to try him there than on teh wing - his pace is really exposed there

Very familiar actually. First saw him play at fullback in a club international game and watched him closely ever since because I felt he would be brilliant for Munster if he got a contract.

Passing: can you honestly see him putting his outside backs away off first phase off either hand? There's more to good passing than being able to slip a short pass to someone in the wide channels. A completely different type of handling is required and he hasn't got it.

Kicking: same as above, he might be able to boot the ball out when he's the last man with time and space in his 22 but would he be able to put through clever grubbers or expose a back three off slow ball halfway down the pitch? I certainly don't think so.

Running lines: He pops up in wide channels...just like any fullback should do. He rarely pops up around midfield looking for/exposing space. I see nothing in his game that says he wants to be closer to the actionor would be useful if he was he was employed there.

[Golf Man]

He can't pass, can't really kick, doesn't run good lines...and is 30 in July. There's literally nothing to suggest he'd be useful there except for his size and they already have Dineen and Downey for those roles. It's not like Penney has actually looked for much hard and straight running when he has picked those guys anyway.

You must not be too familiar with Hurleys play at all - no issues with passing, excellent offloading, he is a decent kicker, and runs decent lines (getting into position for those offloads). He is good defender but has serious issues with pace, going fowrard and particularly when faced with pace in defence. He is actually a very good intelligent footballer, but has never and will never be top level. I don't see this happening at this stage - but it makes far more sense to try him there than on teh wing - his pace is really exposed there

Very familiar actually. First saw him play at fullback in a club international game and watched him closely ever since because I felt he would be brilliant for Munster if he got a contract.

Passing: can you honestly see him putting his outside backs away off first phase off either hand? There's more to good passing than being able to slip a short pass to someone in the wide channels. A completely different type of handling is required and he hasn't got it.

Kicking: same as above, he might be able to boot the ball out when he's the last man with time and space in his 22 but would he be able to put through clever grubbers or expose a back three off slow ball halfway down the pitch? I certainly don't think so.

Running lines: He pops up in wide channels...just like any fullback should do. He rarely pops up around midfield looking for/exposing space. I see nothing in his game that says he wants to be closer to the actionor would be useful if he was he was employed there.

On teh passing I'm not saying he is an outstanding distributor, but I don't see it as a weakness - we don't really see it from him at FB, but do I think he has as good if not better ability in this regard than the incumbent - yes

Kicking - Again not saying its a huge strength but he certainly can do it - look at Howletts try in 2008 QF as a prime example (long time ago obviously). Is it his kicking ability better than Marshalls - no, better than Darcy/Downey - by a mile

Running Lines - not sure how you can deduce whther he wants to be closer to the action from his play at 15 - he is the classic type of player who will adapt to benefit the team

By teh way 12 posts in and the campaign has already worked

[flustered]

playing 12 for Munster A this week! Van der Heever and Conway on the wings!

[Oldschool]

playing 12 for Munster A this week! Van der Heever and Conway on the wings!

Go on Denis, yah good thing.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I would pay good money to see this!

[LeRouxIsPHat]

GM, obviously I disagree about passing and kicking, just don't think they're good enough for 12 so no point arguing.

As regards being closer to the action, if you look at Rob Kearney, Payne, Earls, Bowe. Luke Fitz, Gilroy, Zebo, they're all examples of guys who go looking for work in midfield and most of them have played in the centre at one stage or another. There's a sense that they're comfortable in the heavy traffic and can pick lines of a ten or twelve, I just don't see that with Hurley.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

And while I'm on a roll...I really am amazed that this is being tried out. Putting aside my doubts about his ability, as I said above, Penney has shown very little appetite for having a big lump at twelve to actually PLAY like a big lump and just run hard and straight. He has Downey and Dineen for that already but very rarely uses them as such. Always nice to be able to have an option for it anyway but when they already have the other guys for it, I don't see why they'd try this now. It just seems a bit pointless to me.

[Benji]

Nice lad and all that Denis is he isnt the first cousin of a 12. His only getting a shot to cover positions tomorrow.
He isnt good enough.
Fine winger and F.B and does his best.

[Captain Average]

GM, obviously I disagree about passing and kicking, just don't think they're good enough for 12 so no point arguing.

Remember his kick for Howlett's try against Gloucester in 08? It was top notch. He's a decent kicker imo.
Munster don't really use the boot at 12 all that often anyway, so I'm not sure it's that much of an issue.

[ceemec]

Personally, I simply don't see the point in giving a guy who is almost 30 a start in a development side in a position that is a real problem. He isn't going to play there long term. He's very unlikely to play there short term. He does fit in with the main criteria for a Munster inside centre though....

[Benji]

GM, obviously I disagree about passing and kicking, just don't think they're good enough for 12 so no point arguing.

Remember his kick for Howlett's try against Gloucester in 08? It was top notch. He's a decent kicker imo.
Munster don't really use the boot at 12 all that often anyway, so I'm not sure it's that much of an issue.

Not great when you have to go as far back to 08 to get a kicking highlight.
But I suppose when I saw Darcy kick last weekend it must have been his first kick in years also.

[simonokeeffe]

Personally, I simply don't see the point in giving a guy who is almost 30 a start in a development side in a position that is a real problem. He isn't going to play there long term. He's very unlikely to play there short term. He does fit in with the main criteria for a Munster inside centre though....

Hurley played all his rugby abroad before he joined Munster?

they really should trust their academy in all positions

[ceemec]

Ah Munster produce players and have really stepped up their efforts in recent years reaping rewards.

The inside centre thing is just bizarre though. 15 years since a Munster man started at 12 in the HEC.