New Euro competition

[jimbobjoe]

Quins 0-39 at home and Castres getting milled at La Rochelle. Can't see Europe being a priority for these clubs

ouch
Quinns were full strength and Saracens were missing a good few in the pack

Wasps seem to be going okay. Narrow loss in the opener against quins(missed conversion 80mins) and beat Saints yesterday.
We should be beat them at home but they could deny us bp.

Was at the twickenham double header last week. Wasps were good in the 2nd half v sarries because they fell asleep, they looked very weak in defence throughout (David Strettle scored a hat-trick). Quins were poor against an even poorer London Irish side.

I reckon both will improve as the ERCC approaches but I'd be fairly confident that we'll beat them home and away based on early form.

[simonokeeffe]

Quinns are the Arsenal of rugby, getting outstripped by richer clubs

Nick Evans was the last decent signing they made

PRL increasing salary cap too plus an extra marquee player and more/higher academy credits too

[hugonaut]

Quinns are the Arsenal of rugby, getting outstripped by richer clubs

Nick Evans was the last decent signing they made

PRL increasing salary cap too plus an extra marquee player and more/higher academy credits too

Quins have a decent team though, and most of their best players started – Mike Brown, Marland Yarde, Nick Evans, Danny Care, Joe Marler, Chris Robshaw, Nick Easter all started, are all really good players, and five of them [bar Easter & Evans] are current English internationals. Luke Wallace is a decent player too, and he was in the starting line-up.

They don't have the strength in depth of Saracens, because they have fewer foreigners in their squad than practically any other team in the Premiership ... but if you lose 0-39 at home with most of your team out on the pitch, strength in depth isn't the biggest issue. Really surprising result.

[simonokeeffe]

Quinns are the Arsenal of rugby, getting outstripped by richer clubs

Nick Evans was the last decent signing they made

PRL increasing salary cap too plus an extra marquee player and more/higher academy credits too

Quins have a decent team though, and most of their best players started – Mike Brown, Marland Yarde, Nick Evans, Danny Care, Joe Marler, Chris Robshaw, Nick Easter all started, are all really good players, and five of them [bar Easter & Evans] are current English internationals. Luke Wallace is a decent player too, and he was in the starting line-up.

They don't have the strength in depth of Saracens, because they have fewer foreigners in their squad than practically any other team in the Premiership ... but if you lose 0-39 at home with most of your team out on the pitch, strength in depth isn't the biggest issue. Really surprising result.

will disagree over Yarde, great going forward awful going back

I might be being a bit general but they have been easily outspent by other clubs so falling behind curve, plus those guys away half the year

Just watched highlights, Quinns missed their kicks, Sarries got all theirs (6 penalties 3 coversions), tries were a 5m lineout maul, a fly hack from a Quinns dropped ball and a charge down. Quinns conceded a yellow card from another charge down and a penalty under posts.

[blockhead]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2 ... nce-growth

It is all symptomatic of the same thing: union’s impatience for growth, on and off the field, at a crucial stage of the professional game’s development. Senior officials from the bigger English clubs are already openly speculating that a strong, combined British and Irish league, pitting Leinster, Munster and Ulster – for instance – against Leicester, Saracens and Northampton on a more regular basis, could evolve in the not-too-distant future. One suggestion is to have 24 elite teams split into two divisions of 12 apiece (four Irish, four Welsh, two Scots and 14 English) with two up, two down promotion/relegation between the two each season. Better attended – and potentially fewer – games are being sought by administrators and players’ union officials

The B&I league again.
They know well that they do not have a sustainable business model atm.
Replace the Italians with 2 more english teams.

[fourthirtythree]

Beautiful piece of propaganda that. As per usual from the English papers. There were 14K at an Oz match, more at a Leinster match at the weekend therefore there is a problem which entails changing the competition that Leinster is in to get bums on seats and "standing still is not an option".

[Dave Cahill]

I would be 100% certain that if the Welsh regions and the WRU had not sorted themselves out the Irish provinces and the English clubs would be playing in a common competition right now.

[cormac]

I can't see the provinces maintaining their current levels vis-a-vis the French and English sides if we remain in the Pro12 in the long-term. The Pro12 is most likely to never deliver the kind of sponsorship or tv revenues of the other two leagues can manage. I think a B&I League of some sort is probably in our future although I'd be amazed if any of the participants agreed to a two-tier structure. Far more likely to form using conferences as in the NFL and Super Rugby.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I can't see the provinces maintaining their current levels vis-a-vis the French and English sides if we remain in the Pro12 in the long-term. The Pro12 is most likely to never deliver the kind of sponsorship or tv revenues of the other two leagues can manage. I think a B&I League of some sort is probably in our future although I'd be amazed if any of the participants agreed to a two-tier structure. Far more likely to form using conferences as in the NFL and Super Rugby.

BT have probably already bought the rights!

[Dave Cahill]

I'd say it would only take the smallest mis-step from the welsh to find us in an Anglo-Irish league.

[The Doc]

I can't see the provinces maintaining their current levels vis-a-vis the French and English sides if we remain in the Pro12 in the long-term. The Pro12 is most likely to never deliver the kind of sponsorship or tv revenues of the other two leagues can manage. I think a B&I League of some sort is probably in our future although I'd be amazed if any of the participants agreed to a two-tier structure. Far more likely to form using conferences as in the NFL and Super Rugby.

The problem with the conference idea is that if you use geographic split then it just becomes the top of the Pro12 and the top of the English playing off in some end of season bash - no real change. But if you go with a mix, then you lose local derby games - which, as the Welsh kept telling us, were the only reason they go to P12 games (that and playing Exeter or some other "local" team).

Conferences aren't easy to do. If you're going to do it then do a proper league structure - let the Welsh play in D2 against Leeds (or whatever)

[The Doc]

I'd say it would only take the smallest mis-step from the welsh to find us in an Anglo-Irish league.

That's the conversation I would be having in the background if I were the IRFU - next time drive the discussion rather than respond to it.

[johng]

Some tosser did a conference system thingy last month.

http://bluestalktv.wordpress.com/2014/0 ... h-problem/

Not easy to sort. Politics would be a total nightmare

Groups looked like this.

Irish and Northern conference

Connacht
Edinburgh
Glasgow Warriors
Leinster
Munster
Newcastle Falcons
Sale Sharks
Ulster

Welsh and Western conference

Bath Rugby
Bristol
Cardiff Blues
Exeter Chiefs
Gloucester Rugby
Newport Gwent Dragons
Ospreys
Scarlets

London and Midlands conference

Harlequins
Leicester Tigers
London Irish
London Welsh
Northampton Saints
Saracens
Wasps
Worcester Warriors

[Dave Cahill]

Politics aren't a problem, the welsh and scots wouldn't be invited.

[blockhead]

Some tosser did a conference system thingy last month.

http://bluestalktv.wordpress.com/2014/0 ... h-problem/

Not easy to sort. Politics would be a total nightmare

Groups looked like this.

Irish and Northern conference

Connacht
Edinburgh
Glasgow Warriors
Leinster
Munster
Newcastle Falcons
Sale Sharks
Ulster

Welsh and Western conference

Bath Rugby
Bristol
Cardiff Blues
Exeter Chiefs
Gloucester Rugby
Newport Gwent Dragons
Ospreys
Scarlets

London and Midlands conference

Harlequins
Leicester Tigers
London Irish
London Welsh
Northampton Saints
Saracens
Wasps
Worcester Warriors

Don't like the look of our group atall, atall. We would have to insist on a super group such as;
Leinster
Ulster,
Munster,
Saracens
Leicester
Northampton
LIrish
Harlequins.
The Irish teams playing in London is where the big bucks would be. The 3 London sides wouldbe doing their up-most to have those fixtures in the big stadia like Wembly and Twickers. The ex-pats could fill the Stoop (for eg) on their own.

[johng]

You're not wrong. The groups were done up on the back of a fag packet and based purely on geography.

See what I mean about the politics though.

[blockhead]

A bit of realism in Wales for once.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... nd-7773842

Conclusion

Unless we can turn it around, long-term, the Irish could look to England to form an Anglo-Irish League with the Aviva Premiership clubs.

You may scoff at the suggestion, but Ireland has plenty to offer in terms of highly competitive sides, a strong rugby history and tradition attaching to its provinces and a vibrant support base.

And with so many Irish people living in England, they could be well supported at away fixtures, as we’ve seen in the Heineken Cup.

Some of the best and most sought-after encounters in recent years have been Anglo-Irish, featuring Leinster, Munster and Ulster.

You only have to study attendances for those fixtures to see they are way up on those for Anglo-Welsh fixtures in Europe, with Wales having failed to make any real impact on the tournament in recent years.

So we can’t afford to be complacent and believe we can just carry on as we are.

We have to start the fightback next weekend with the Blues, Dragons, Scarlets and Ospreys all winning

[paddyor]

I can't see the provinces maintaining their current levels vis-a-vis the French and English sides if we remain in the Pro12 in the long-term. The Pro12 is most likely to never deliver the kind of sponsorship or tv revenues of the other two leagues can manage. I think a B&I League of some sort is probably in our future although I'd be amazed if any of the participants agreed to a two-tier structure. Far more likely to form using conferences as in the NFL and Super Rugby.

Probably right about the TV revenue never reaching the same level as the AP or T14. It's debatable though wether or not they can grow theirs as quickly in the future as they did recently. They'd both need more and more entrants into the broadband/tv market to keep rights prices growing. That's before you get to the issue of whether or not it can deliver for the companies(it can in France) the way Soccer can. BT were eager to put it up to Sky this time but if it means losing Champions league or EPL they're less likely to get into a bidding war.

It'll be interesting to see Skys figures for the Pro12 this season

I wouldn't worry about the Sponsorship so much if todays story in the IT is anything to go by. If we can grow our sponsorship revenue that way and don't have to share it with the RRW I'm happy. The article implies we're getting +100K a year extra in sponsorship money(well the player is for staying with Leinster). With IRFU giving the okay for these kind of deals I think we can expect this to rise. Given the diverse Geography of the P12 it'll work better for each of the teams to do deals this way. BOI have no interest in Italy.

I said this some where else but I think the PRL would only look at this if it could get them more than they're already getting for the AP. c€25m pa TV, €5-8m sponsorship, and then whatever they take in at the gate. Hard to know if we could offer them anything in terms of TV money, sponsorship maybe, and gate recipets might benefit some teams if they were accessible and moved to a bigger stadium.

Politics aren't a problem, the welsh and scots wouldn't be invited.

Why not? And no I don't think PRL & RRW are besties after the euro debacle, but i still think the IRFU and RFU have an interest in sustaining pro teams in both Scotland and Wales.

[simonokeeffe]

hopefully Welsh central deals will steady the ship there and improve competitiveness of Welsh sides in Pro12, Italians will continue to invest in Zebre and Glasgow stay strong. Connacht on an upward curve and hey we could have a competitive league again in a couple of years.

[paddyor]

hopefully Welsh central deals will steady the ship there and improve competitiveness of Welsh sides in Pro12, Italians will continue to invest in Zebre and Glasgow stay strong. Connacht on an upward curve and hey we could have a competitive league again in a couple of years.

There's shag all in that Welsh deal money wise. Also can't see the point of dual contracts. I fully expect the Welsh to continue on the path they were on last year.